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European News and Poland Thread 2


Novichok 1 | 2,545
1 Dec 2020 #31
the federal elections in 2017 were de facto a referendum

"de facto" means that it was not a referendum
A referendum is when your ruling class asks a single yes or no question. There are two kinds of referenda: advisory and binding. The advisory type is bulls**t.

I am offended that you hoped to weasel out of my question with that "de facto". Please don't do it again.
Tacitus 2 | 1,214
1 Dec 2020 #32
The voters had an opportunity in the elections to judge Merkel's policies including her refugee policies. They decided to award her with a fourth term, thereby vindicating her decision. Roughly 90% of the voters voted for parties that either supported Merkel's refugee policy, or demanded an even more liberal on.

The advisory type is bulls**t.

Referendums are bs on most issues since reality rarely reflects a simple yes or no, including this one. There are people who are in favour of a very liberal interpretation of asylum laws, then there are people who want a more restricted one but still agree to the acceptance of genuine refugees and then there are those who oppose it all together.

Please don't do it again

Sry, I will keep on pointing out your logical fallacies and distortions.
Novichok 1 | 2,545
1 Dec 2020 #33
Let me try again...
I asked when you had a referendum about refugees. The answer is: never. Case closed. The rest of your posts is a waste of space.
Tacitus 2 | 1,214
1 Dec 2020 #34
The premise behind your question was that Germans never had the chance to vote on the refugee policy, which as I pointed out to you was false.

Or to answer your initial point:

He will also tell you that it's OK since Germans were asked to vote in a referendum

Of course it is ok since an overwhelming majorty backed the decision.
Novichok 1 | 2,545
1 Dec 2020 #35
Your ruling mob doesn't give a FF what you want or think. If they did, they would ask a direct question about refugees just we as ask if we want to invite X to a party. It goes like this: Hon, do you want to invite X to dinner?

You were never asked that question because the ruling elites never do. They didn't in the USSR, and they never asked you in Germany, or us in the US. The ruling gangs are the same everywhere, but you still think that you are more democratic than the GDR. They had elections, too.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,520
1 Dec 2020 #36
but you still think that you are more democratic than the GDR.

It's true though...I should know....I can compare!
Tacitus 2 | 1,214
1 Dec 2020 #37
they would ask a direct question about refugees

And what question would this be? Like I said, reality if often too complex for a simple yes/no question.

[quote]but you still think that you are more democratic than the GDR.[/quote

You are a moron if you think that.
Novichok 1 | 2,545
1 Dec 2020 #38
And what question would this be?

Möchten Sie Flüchtlinge nach Deutschland zulassen?
Would you like to admit refugees to Germany?
johnny reb 29 | 5,324
1 Dec 2020 #39
Absolutely, another 5 million of them to enrich Germany's culture.
I am even thinking of moving there to further my education for free.
There are many German colleges which offer free education to international students.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,520
1 Dec 2020 #40
Would you like to admit refugees to Germany?

With this wording you would lose every referendum Novichok....as most Germans would vote "yes".

The right of asylum is part of our Grundgesetz...and every German who has a f*ucking clue of our history knows how important that is.

Not even the AfD is against that...that should tell you something.

What is contested is WHO is actually a refugee...many people use that right of asylum to gain entry but are more or less economical immigrants. Many of them unable to integrate into our labor market, staying a burden on our welfare system for a long time. THAT is the problem, which our politics is to slow and clumsily handling.

There is no easy answer to that either but to strengthen the tools and skills of our official authorities to handle these oncoming masses better and quicker and to send those, undeserving of that protection, right back. And to implement a better system for economical immigration. So that Germany get's more than the afghan sheep farmer with only one year of Koran school under his belt.

That is a difficult task of it's own, there is no need to bombast that up to a question of democracy or cultural armageddon ffs! Get a grip!

There is seemingly a clear global majority which would answer your question with "yes":

Seven in ten adults globally (72%) believe in the fundamental right of refugees to seek refuge - including in their own country - to escape war or persecution, which is up 11 points from 61% in 2019. One in five (21%) disagree.

ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/World-Refugee-Day-2020-US-release

Countries whose citizens are most likely to agree with the principle of the right to seek refuge are Sweden (81%), the Netherlands (80%) and Spain (79%). Levels of agreement have markedly increased in France, Belgium and Germany since last year. Among all 26 countries surveyed, agreement is lowest in South Korea (55%), Hungary (57%) and Malaysia (60%).

In the U.S., the exact same proportions of adults agree (72%) and disagree (21%) as on average globally. Agreement is up 10 points from last year.

Novichok 1 | 2,545
1 Dec 2020 #41
With this wording you would lose every referendum Novichok....as most Germans would vote "yes".

No, I would not because the referendum ballot would have this right next to the question:

Warnung! Falls die Ja-Stimmen vorherrschen, werden die Ja-Wähler besteuert, um ihre gesamten Wohnungs-, Bildungs- und Krankheitskosten, etwaige Haftungsausgleiche sowie die Kosten für Inhaftierungen und Abschiebungen zu bezahlen. Die Nein-Wähler werden von den oben genannten finanziellen Belastungen befreit.

Warning! If the majority of votes is in favor, those who are in favor are taxed in order to pay all of their housing, education, and medical expenses, any liability compensation, and the costs of detention and deportation. The no-voters will be relieved of the above financial burdens.

That would be honest and there would 2 yes votes, yours and Tacitus'. The rest of the Germans are too sane to buy that refugee crap. BTW, all your refugees are fake, every last one, since they were already safe somewhere else before they crossed into Germany.

The problem is that your government, like ours, is a dishonest mob of lying crooks and would never agree to a referendum like that.

The right of asylum is part of our Grundgesetz...and every German who has a f*ucking clue

Bulls**t. Once a person is safe in, say, Turkey, he is not allowed to country shop and loses his refugee status. Learn facts before you post nonsense.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,520
1 Dec 2020 #42
You are a drama queen, nothing else!

Tinfoilhat-Conspiracies everywhere, explaining my own country to me...funny!

That would be honest and there would 2 yes votes, yours and Tacitus'.

You know NOTHING about Germany, glad to disappoint!:)

Oh and there was actually a referendum, kind of...the "refugee crisis" was 2015, with the worst low point, the Silvester night 2015/2016 in Cologne....Mrs. Merkel, the face of that bruhaha, was re-elected 2017, by people fully knowing by then about the scope and the difficulties of that Völkerwanderung...THAT are the facts!
Novichok 1 | 2,545
1 Dec 2020 #43
Tinfoilhat-Conspiracies everywhere, explaining my own country to me...funny!

I explained the UN rules on refugees. Just because your country is run by PC morons, that does not change those rules. Same for the rest of Western Europe and the US, so don't feel bad.

Did you at least read the part in bold type? Those idiotic polls you cited, did they include that warning? Let me guess....OK, I got it! It was not included.

kind of..

This one is just another form of weaseling out with that "kind of". The first one had "de facto" as the weasel disclaimer.

Now pay attention: Everybody wants to feel good as long as they don't get the invoice. So, please, don't bulls**t me anymore how people this or that if they were never told how much they would have to pay for their feel-good generosity and the crime it would bring to their town.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,520
1 Dec 2020 #44
Just because your country is run by PC morons

The Right of Asylum was implemented in Europe after the carnage that was WWII....if you call the survivors PC morons, okay...your choice!

But what you are trying to sell is just fake news....saying that most people in Germany and/or the world would bin that law gladly if only asked...that's just wrong! FACT!

You and your opinion belong to a minority...it's only democratic that the majority here rules, right? RIGHT!
Novichok 1 | 2,545
1 Dec 2020 #45
No, you rule nothing. Your rulers rule. You are only allowed to play the voting games to keep the farce going. How old are you really?

The Right of Asylum was implemented in Europe after the carnage that was WWII.

With the idea that their stay would be temporary. Your fake refugees have no intention to ever leave and you have no guts to expel them or you would be accused of being Nazis again and blush.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,520
1 Dec 2020 #46
How old are you really?

Old enough to appreciate being able to give the thumbs up (or down for that matter) every few years. That is alot better than to wait till your blessed leader croaks only to applaud standing the next crony.

What would be your alternative?

and you have no guts to expel them or you would be accused of being Nazis again

You probably nailed it! And I'm unhappy about it as many....and now what?
Crow 146 | 9,254
1 Dec 2020 #47
Refugees, like cancer, if not cut out and deported

You think Poland's army command isnt aware of situation. Many would be surprised when Poland hit hard with iron Sarmatian habd. See, I wont be. All Muslims who rebel and declare Caliphate near Poland, like in Sweden or on the way of Poland's acess to warm seas, like on Balkan, in Serbian lands, will learn that Poland have respond.

the federal elections

The federal elections?

You are aware that federations arent unitar States? Bawaria, Saxony, etc eastern Germany can separate. And they would. They are sane.

I am even thinking of moving there

Do you have finished military training?

It is rethorical question, of course.
Novichok 1 | 2,545
1 Dec 2020 #48
You probably nailed it! And I'm unhappy about it as many....and now what?

I am so glad you asked. First, in your own mind and without running the risk of being thrown into prison, you have to admit that Hitler was a patriot, loved Germany, and, once in a while, was right.

Second, just to feel good, write or call your "legal representative" who does not represent you well on this last point. I did it many times, didn't do me much good and the needle stayed stuck but I felt that I did "something".

Third, go on German forums, (please don't leave this one) and post about the evil of foreign and badly assimilating scum that spreads faster than 1.8.

How is that for practical advice?
BTW, don't do what I did, which was starting my letters to that pos Durbin with "You pos..." It may give you a sense of relief but it never will make past the first responder.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,520
1 Dec 2020 #49
you have to admit that Hitler was a patriot, loved Germany, and, once in a while, was right.

Sorry, can't do!

He (and his followers) cost me and my family their home and Germany half of its territory, not to mention decades of occupation and partition...and that was only for Germans.

If that is love then I don't want to know what someone does who truly hates Germany!

How is that for practical advice?

Also quite useless I fear....after all there is quite a consent already that there is not everything well going with the integration and that there are some adaption in the laws needed, at least in those forums I frequent.

But that is a far cry from that what you demand...the Right of Asylum, and with that the refugees, are here to stay.

Declaring Hitler a patriot would only put me into the "crazy corner" with nobody wanting to listen to me as I'm obviously a dumb nutter...there is no way I could convince anybody with one brain cell left...

Better not go down that path!
Novichok 1 | 2,545
1 Dec 2020 #50
the Right of Asylum, and with that the refugees, are here to stay.

That Right of Asylum is bs and you know it since nothing is without limits and that includes a nation's, however well-meaning, ability to absorb an unlimited number of refugees. That makes it necessary to stop the nth plus 1 or the ship will tip over. If you (editorial) can legally refuse 10,000,000, you can legally refuse 100. Plus, make them leave when the reason why they came is no longer there.

So, back to my referendum. A simple "yes" is not enough and must be followed by, OK, how many? Without that "how many" and the number it calls for, that referendum would be just another childish feel-good crap.

Tell me where I am wrong in my logic. Skip "yes, but it couldn't be done" political nonsense. Flawless and brilliant will do fine.
Tacitus 2 | 1,214
1 Dec 2020 #51
ou have to admit that Hitler was a patriot, loved Germany,

That must have been a very twisted kind of love, since his last orders were to burn the country to the ground, literally dragging Germany with him down the abyss.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero_Decree

Tell me where I am wrong in my logic

Rejecting the right of asylum in principle because it could lead to undue burdens is like saying that helping e.g. victims of other tragedies because there hypothetically might happen a situation in which there are to many of them for the hospitals to handle.

This case has never happened so far and likely never will.
Novichok 1 | 2,545
1 Dec 2020 #52
since his last orders were to burn the country to the ground,

You should have never mentioned that as it gave me an opening you will not like.

When this sick maniac issued those orders, anybody with two functioning brain cells knew the war was lost - even the SS, Gestapo, and all the mean sobs still alive. Yet, literally up to the final hours, he was able to control them by phone and not even in person to inspire.

And that is, my dear German PF posters, why the group I hate the most are the obedient morons. There is nothing worse and more despicable. Nothing. They are the useful idiots that make Hitlers possible. When he was devouring Europe, the mindless mobs cheered and never asked if it was moral, legal, or even good for Germany.

Now, to repent, the mindless mobs redirected their affection toward the foreign scum that should have never, ever been allowed in, and like cancer, will never leave without a drastic surgery, radiation, and chemo.

This case has never happened so far and likely never will.

If you are not prepared to say how many is too many, you are disqualified from any discussions with me on this subject.
Crow 146 | 9,254
1 Dec 2020 #53
Well, Germany had its historical chance. Experiment failed. Germanized Serbs would be liberated from yoke.

After all, Lusatian Serbs already called for outside intervention and help. Only deluded fanatics will stay with Arabs and Turks in Germany.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,520
1 Dec 2020 #54
I truly think that the problem will be solved politically quite elegantly...sooner or later.

Camps will be build outside of Europe (but led by the EU), where everybody can ask for asylum....every request gets through a legally sound process as the laws demand, the decision will be swift and binding...the successfully accepted refugee gets into one member state of the EU (not of his choice mind you but distributed after a before agreed key)....the unsuccessful claimant, probably 90% of all cases, has to stay either in the camp or leave the camp to go home, or he can ask for a labor visa, for that of course different requirements are set...

Everybody not going through such a camp is declared illegal from the start....should there be no way to get him back home directly he will be delivered into the nearest camp, there he can ask again.

Right now that solution is only talked about, because it seems not that urgent for most of the EU governments and so far no country has come forward to allow such a camp on its soil...should the pressure rise again though, with to many people not only knocking on Europe's door but actually coming through, it will become a hot topic again, I'm sure...
Vesko Vukovic 1 | 156
1 Dec 2020 #55
The main reason that Donald Trump ordered the shifting of American troops from Germany to Poland is not so that they would be closer to Russia... It's because Poland is designated as a safe country which doesn't have illegal muslim migrants.

Germany is expected to be the next country to burn once the army of migrants is activated (many of whom are ISIS and Al-Qaeda members).
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,520
1 Dec 2020 #56
What will happen to that now with Biden in the White House?
dolnoslask 6 | 3,085
1 Dec 2020 #57
Camps will be build outside of Europe

This sounds like a very familiar old WWII tactic (let some other country take the blame for misery ) , history repeating itself?, just saying.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,520
1 Dec 2020 #58
How so?

The camps are existing already....only just on the borders of the EU...and they are miserable because unwanted and unhandled, not organized rightly because as of yet nobody dares to make a stand and to admit that our current handling is failing. But make no mistake, they are the future, we need a permanent solution to an ongoing problem...these people will keep coming.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,085
1 Dec 2020 #59
How so?

When people start talking about building camps it sends shivers down my spine.


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