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Poland -- Europe's only counterweight to Russia


Crow 155 | 9,030
1 Apr 2016 #31
Poland and Russia have some opened historical issues but, in last few decades and now, every Russian effort in direction of multi-polar world suits Poland absolutely. Multi-polar world is only chance for Poland to escape from western European domination and certain assimilation. Multi-polar world is God given chance for Poland to restore Commonwealth, to create Intermarium.
Marsupial - | 881
1 Apr 2016 #32
Crow for christs sake ruskis don't want to.talk just wave sabre and break deals. Its not they are umpopular only in poland, they are not popular here either. An un democratic, brainwashed ,paranoid menace. When their inept leader is gone and a change AGAIN sweeps over them things will get better for sure but I cabt see.how now. The anglosphere is not polands danger, it is russia. It is not germany it is the snake who arranged all on the other side. Every freaking time! Honestly mate are you seperated from reality?
Polson 5 | 1,768
1 Apr 2016 #33
Because the Russians think the West a a bunch of spineless cowards who would surrender to the macho Russians.

And those would be good reasons for another world war, with potentionally hundreds of millions of dead?
Let's be serious, and don't underestimate Russians, they (Russians) know they couldn't win a war against the US+EU+all NATO.
They're not that silly.

paranoid menace

The paranoia is on our side too.

Honestly mate are you seperated from reality?

You should ask yourself that question, my friend.
pweeg3
1 Apr 2016 #34
They're not that silly.

A lot of them are that silly

unian.info/war/1077002-poll-third-of-russians-believe-russia-would-win-war-against-nato.html
Marsupial - | 881
1 Apr 2016 #35
Polson there's no use asking me that when we can look at delusional monkey rt news 5 seconds after your post to see outright lies and it's so taccy it makes several people laugh. There is no doubt in our minds that they are severely delusional and mentally.ill. There is no way this is a country, it's juat a mental warlord state with nukes.
jon357 74 | 21,834
1 Apr 2016 #36
They're not that silly.

But stupid enough to have a massive Cult of Personality for the dictator Putin and certainly stupid enough to do his bidding, as in the illegal invasion of Ukraine.

Unfortunately the worst regimes, like Russia, have no shortage of people willing to die for them in ultimately fruitless wars.
AdrianK9 6 | 364
1 Apr 2016 #37
Keep Putin in power.

1. Putin has balls - he built up the Russian army and up until sanctions and falling oil prices the Russian economy was doing well. People are still earning far more now in Russia than during the early 2000s - double, nearly triple. A Russian made around 10k Rubles a year in 2006, now a Russian in 2016 makes around 32k Rubles a year. Our politicians in the West DO NOT have balls - except for maybe Clinton maybe because she's just brazen and doesn't care about anyone, will say and do anything she wants even if it means dead bodies and failed states along the way.

2. Russian economy is smaller than China and India but their military is very powerful. India, China, Iran, and dozens of others countries buy Russian weaponry. The economy in Russia is not very good though, it's worth more than Canada but worth less than India's - even much smaller less populated countries like Italy, France, and Germany have a larger economy in terms of dollar GDP value. It is nonetheless one of the G-20 nations and it's economy is worth more than other regional powers like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Nigeria, etc. I would say that the combination of having the most land, one of the top providers of military hardware, a G-20 economy, having more nukes than the US does make Russia at the near superpower level. The main thing that Russia is missing from being a true superpower is bases in other countries - which Russia is in the process of establishing.

3. The Western leaders are a bunch of spineless cowards - especially Obama. He is totally indecisive and when he does make a decision it's often one that's the opposite of what his advisors suggested. His 'red line' meant NOTHING when Assad supposedly used chemical weapons - although apparently now there's been a report released by a British firm that they were paid by the FSA who got money from the west to release chemical weapons so as to make the public think it was Assad.. but that's another case... It's a wide known fact amongst government officials that Obama has a 'my way or the highway' attitude. Look at Merkel even - she is a total weakling and she allowed her country to be invaded by foreigners without even trying to put up a fight. The West criticizes nations that build fences or walls and protect their border. They're called cruel, bigoted, islamaphobes, etc. The leaders that do have balls like from Hungary, Slovakia (I believe that's the country that said we don't have any mosques here and don't want to start, and other Eastern European leaders as well as people like Trump, Nigel Farange, or Gaddafi even, any 'strongman' is thought of as racist, authoritarian, Hitler-like, xenophobic when they're just trying to protect their country and its borders. It appears as if anyone that is against UN, EU, NATO, Central Bank, IMF hegenomy is automatically criticized.

Feed the Russian delusions that they are a 'superpower'.

Americans are just as brainwashed and have the same delusion that our economy is doing well and unemployment is low. Just wait till this stock bubble bursts and then lastly the dollar bubble. Every boom and bust is made by design - one section of the economy kept artificially high and prosperous till eventually it goes bust and a new one then rises, then goes bust all just made to shift focus away from the true value of the dollar. In just the past few decades we went from the dot com bubble to the real estate bubble to the commodity bubble to the current stock bubble. The majority of US stocks are way overvalued. People saying Facebook is worth $100 billion?! How?! They don't have anything besides some advertising revenue. There is NOTHING PHYSICAL propping up the dollar aside from the idea that it is the most widely accepted universal currency. There is no gold propping up the dollar like before. Already we're seeing countries creating basket currencies so they don't have to trade with dollars anymore. Russia and China are the leaders in this. Arguably the main reason why Gaddafi was killed is because he wanted to create a currency called the Dinar which would be used by Arab and Africa oil producing countries to sell their oil. This means that the US and Europe would have to first convert their currencies to the dinar in order to buy oil from Arab and African countries. Well, that was no good - oil is too important of a product and Gaddafi had to go.
jon357 74 | 21,834
1 Apr 2016 #38
Putin has balls - he built up the Russian army and up until sanctions

Most people in here in Poland (and elsewhere in Europe) would I think prefer a Russian leader with integrity and decency than with 'balls'. About Putin's balls, the less I know the better. As far as the other two qualities are concerned, he has no integrity and he has no decency
dolnoslask 6 | 2,946
1 Apr 2016 #39
It appears as if anyone that is against UN, EU, NATO, Central Bank, IMF hegenomy is automatically criticized. yep I can speak from experience here.

There is a great deal of pressure on Poland to tow the line.
Polson 5 | 1,768
1 Apr 2016 #40
A lot of them are that silly

One third... which means that a clear majority of two thirds (approx. 66%) thinks that Russia wouldn't defeat NATO.
The article also states that most Russians don't want a war with NATO.
See, not silly.

There is no way this is a country, it's juat a mental warlord state with nukes.

You should have a calm conversation with a Russian citizen, you'd be surprised how 'normal' s/he is.

But stupid enough to have a massive Cult of Personality for the dictator Putin

There may be a cult of personality, but people don't all buy it.
Also, you have such a negative opinion of Putin that you cannot imagine that many Russians (even the educated ones) may praise some of his policies.

Unfortunately the worst regimes, like Russia

You won't like it but... in my opinion, there are much worse regimes in the world than Russia's. These ones are the 'priority'.

I still don't think that Russia is a threat to Europe. To America maybe (economically and politically). But not Europe.
Unfortunately, in the case of a war, the consequences would be terrible for Europe and Russia. America will be fine, as always. And for sure Americans would find a way to benefit from such a disaster.
AdrianK9 6 | 364
1 Apr 2016 #41
The article also states that most Russians don't want a war with NATO.

The result would be MAAD if nuclear weapons were used. Russia simply cannot defeat all the NATO allied countries and conversely NATO cannot conquer and subdue all of Russia. The war would be a stalemate at best and at worst total destruction for all parties.

And for sure Americans would find a way to benefit from such a disaster.

The people that shorted American Airlines stocks after 9/11 made a killing. There were Muslims, and allegedly Israelis dressed as Palestinians (see Dancing Israelis). Which is worse? The people who profit from disaster, or the people who are overjoyed at the loss of innocent life? Both are despicable... human greed and cruelty have no bounds. Machiavelli would truly be proud of Western Politicians.

CNN Live on 9/11 regarding the Dancing Israelis:
youtube.com/watch?v=UMkX5uemLyk

Nonetheless, Poland is most definitely not Europe's only counterweight to Russia. It's one of a few buffer zone pawns... like Romania. The only reason why NATO was pushing to have missle defenses there is so that they don't travel past Poland - you'd be blind to think NATO cares about Polish security - there more worried about the bomb not traveling past Poland into France, Germany, UK, etc. If anything, out of the Europe's closest neighbors to Russia - Turkey would have the most powerful army (if you consider Turkey part of Europe anyway) but Russia would crush it in an all out war even if nukes weren't used. Russia spends bit more on it's military than UK and Saudi Arabia does and spending is gradually increasing - it's in 3rd place after US and China. When you combine UK, France, and Germany it's more than double what Russia spends on it's military. Russia and China combined is roughly half of US expenditure on military. No, money isn't everything but it's a good indicator. North Korea has some nukes weaker than Hiroshima and a million man army, but it can barely feed it. Nonetheless, no one will be invading North Korea anytime soon and likewise North Korea won't be invading anyone either. Same with Iran. isn't wealthy and doesn't spend much on military but is nonetheless a pretty strong regional power. No one is going to invade Iran anytime soon, and if Iran attacked Israel it would be wiped out shortly after.
jon357 74 | 21,834
1 Apr 2016 #42
There may be a cult of personality, but people don't all buy it.

Enough do to give him an, albeit very very compromised, electoral legitimacy. Sadly the Russians are like that.

You won't like it but... in my opinion, there are much worse regimes in the world than Russia's.

Here in Europe??? No, there aren't "much worse regimes" than Putain's, except perhaps for two vwry minor states: Belarus (President Lukaszenko) and Transdnistria (President Smirnov - see the connection?) both of which are Putin's puppet states, two of many that his vile regime bankrolls...

Russia simply cannot defeat all the NATO allied countries and conversely NATO cannot conquer and subdue all of Russia.

And the Russians know that. And the world sits back while they invade Ukraine...
pweeg3
1 Apr 2016 #43
"he built up the Russian army and up until sanctions and falling oil prices the Russian economy was doing well. People are still earning far more now in Russia than during the early 2000s - double, nearly triple. A Russian made around 10k Rubles a year in 2006, now a Russian in 2016 makes around 32k Rubles a year. "

The Russian army is still crap. do you realise the extent of inflation means the Russians are still very poor. 32K rubles is about $5000. Half what Polish people earn. The Russian economy wasn't 'doing well', it was and is a entirely a commodity based economy.

Russia makes virtually nothing, its only manufactured export out of its top ten exports is... saw wooden planks.

. Sadly the Russians are like that.

Conmen need willing victims, those who want to believe what the conman is telling them.

Russians are VERY willing victims.
Crow 155 | 9,030
1 Apr 2016 #44
Crow for christs sake ruskis don't want to.talk just wave sabre and break deals.

Let Hungary and Serbia serve you as a witnesses. Russia do respect deals, talk much and these days don`t wave sabre without reason.

Its not they are umpopular only in poland, they are not popular here either.

but they change. Why not give them chance

The anglosphere is not polands danger, it is russia.

Anglos are true threat to Poland. They threaten Poland with their schemes, humiliation, hold Poland dependable, while constantly assimilate Poles. Russia don`t pose such a threat to Poland. Russia`s magnates tried to conquer Poland in past (and Poles responded with reciprocity, when they could) but, they founded that Russia can`t digest Poland. So, Russia`s movements against Poland severely harmed Russia, while at the same time weakened Poland and reduced Poland`s capability to respond to threat from the western Europe. In turn, that situation led to even deeper weakening of Russia on all western European schemes. Complete Slavic world paid consequences because of Russian-Polish disputes.

All in all, Russia learned. So Russia now respect balance within Slavic world and Eastern Europe.

It is not germany it is the snake who arranged all on the other side.

Elaborate please.
Marsupial - | 881
1 Apr 2016 #45
Well crow they tried to flood the continent in the 20s with their communism. Fortunately they underestimated things. In the 30s they let the germans train on their land even though the germans were not even supposed.to.have an army or tanks. Later they signed pact with germany facilitating invasion and letting hitler loose on western europe so they can grab their share and turn it into a communist ghetto. Not only did they empower hitler they joined in. As far as I am cpncerned ww2 was started by russia and signed off on. As for the terrible things the german animals did in russia......sell your soul to the devil you may get something in return but he always comes to collect in the end.
Polson 5 | 1,768
2 Apr 2016 #46
The only reason why NATO was pushing to have missle defenses there is so that they don't travel past Poland - you'd be blind to think NATO cares about Polish security

I agree with you, Adrian, unfortunately.

Here in Europe???

You can't compare Russia with any European country. Russia has a very specific history, is the largest country on the planet, and has huge natural resources. I'm not saying it needs to be run by a dictator, but it surely can't be ruled by a puppet-president, if you know what I mean.

Putin may currently be the best option. For now.

And the world sits back while they invade Ukraine...

Can you prove this?
Also, the Ukraine crisis is much more complex than just the pretty picture of the Good (West) on one side and the Bad (Russia) on the other side. It's all so political.

the germans were not even supposed.to.have an army or tanks.

Nazi Germany received a lot of equipments and oil (and support) from American companies, why don't you mention that?
landofthunder
2 Apr 2016 #47
The magnificent Mr. V. Putin was a hard arsed KGB apparatchik, [Maybe his ex wife could tell the world about his genitals]. He was an international Russian agent, [he knows Merkel the Marxist]. Before 1997 Russia was being dismantled by her mortal enemies, the Ashkenazy Jews, as per the directives of the Private Jewish Bank, The Federal Reserve Bank. Russia was in serious decline and the Worlds Banks, which are owned by the Rothschild Family, [only Jews can sit on the boards], were ready to implement their plans to restore Bolshevism, [85% Jews controlled it,1920s]

Mr.V. Putin, [with or without lower procreative organs], in a nut-shell, [no pun], resuscitated Mother Russia and put her back on her feet. How? He got rid of the Jewish Oligarchs! He took their monopolies away from them, put some in prison and turned the rest into what they are by nature = Wondering Jews. They own super yachts. {{ book = 'The Wondering Who?', -Gilad Atzmon}} His popularity, Dec 2015 = 88%. He is Rus the Russian. Visit = 'souloftheeast.org'

*
Maybe, the commentators here are comedians? Perhaps, I don't get the joke or miss the secret and slight nuances of sarcasm or triple meaning. But, this is about Poland, and Poland is, "A Country In The Moon", - book, by Michael Moran. Off the planet; spaced out!

AdrianK9 and Crow seam to have done some research and are very close to getting the big picture.

The modern world is now made up of Corporations. Some are countries, like USA, UK, Oz. Some are Businesses and private enterprises like Monsanto, FB, Cokacola, [all interconnected]. In Anglo American Law, [Maritime Law], a Corporation is a 'person', like Jon357.

To simplify = A Co. is owned by Banks or owns a Bank, [controlled by Rothschild]. In a court of law, Maritime Law + Land Law, The Co. [The person], is an individual with all it possesses.

The USA is a Corporation. This Co. is in debt to the FRB who lends it money, which does not exist.
As it is not possible to repay the debt, The Joo Bank has taken possession of the land and the people are in servitude until the debt is repaid. The Bank controls the $$ = controls politics.

So what? What about Poland the savior of Vienna? Intermarium and Lwow and Kielbasa?
Poland is a budgerigars fart in a hurricane. No one cares about romantic notions. Grow up!

The Laws of this planet are Anglo-American Maritime Laws. They are set in a Private Jewish country called, 'The City Of London', and upheld in the private countries, 'District Of Columbia' and "Vatican City".

Those who tried to free their countries from Jusury, and restore the central banks to the people, were expelled from this planet = Gaddafi/ JFK/ Abraham Lincoln + 2 other presidents.

@ Russian Military = now, the best.
@ North Korea = fat boy needs permission from China to pick his nose, always.
@ Poland in G20 = Jesus Finkelstein Crisp !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wake UP!!!!!!
@ Smolensk Crash = what crash? Funeral service-no foreign diplomats = get it?
@ Poland and its Pseudo Allies = GOT IT! Foreign Army - $$ for Poland + First nuclear target.
Marsupial - | 881
2 Apr 2016 #48
It's true polson I did omitt the usa helping germans in the 30s, as always their opportunistic business people are always involved. All that aside at the moment they seem to be too lame to improve relationships and their own economy for a start. It seems like putin will be in till he.dies plenty of time to steal billions more from the russian people to give to his family for which they are thanking him. Laughable.
whocares
2 Apr 2016 #49
@landofthunder

I understand where you are coming from.
Putin did get rid of some Jewish Oligarchs, but he still does talk with the tribe in Russia and Israel.
He did call the Bolsheviks traitors and he knows that connection.

I dont understand your bottom part of the text.
I admit Russia has been upgrading their military and increasing spending. But I dont think they are "the best" in that area.

In the end both US, Russia (and others) have nukes which can destroy the planet. We cant let a major war happen.
RUR
2 Apr 2016 #50
whocares : "But I dont think they are "the best" in that area".

You aren't in the know then

theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/29/russias-campaign-in-syria-leads-to-arms-sale-windfall

The demonstration of Russian military might during Vladimir Putin's air campaign in Syria has increased interest from arms buyers and could result in several billion dollars in new sales, analysts and media have said.
Marsupial - | 881
2 Apr 2016 #51
Worthless propaganda, I see your game stuge.
Crow 155 | 9,030
2 Apr 2016 #52
how i see things USA and Russia aren`t enemies. Not at all. They would have different issues from one administration to another, no matter in USA or in Russia but, they are far from being enemies. More like partners. Poland should be aware of this and play wisely.
nothanks - | 633
2 Apr 2016 #53
I'm not saying it needs to be run by a dictator, but it surely can't be ruled by a puppet-president, if you know what I mean.

Indeed, Russia requires an extremely strong centralized government. They border so many nations. Consider how USA can just rely on the Atlantic & Pacific Oceans
jon357 74 | 21,834
2 Apr 2016 #54
You can't compare Russia with any European country.

Comparing is precisely what you were doing, and of course every country has a "very specific history".

I'm not saying it needs to be run by a dictator, but it surely can't be ruled by a puppet-president, if you know what I mean

Sadly it is run by a dictator right now, however interesting that you value Russia so low that you see only those two alternatives.

Can you prove this?

No need to prove that the free world have not intervened militarily in the invasion. Since they have not. And yes, everything is " all so political". The facts however are black and white. Russia and the Putinists illegally invaded a sovereign state.
Marsupial - | 881
3 Apr 2016 #55
Whatever they invade or take will.just turn into unusable trash.
pweeg
3 Apr 2016 #56
Look how many Paid for by Putin Russian Trolls we have here.

Russia is special..
Russia is strong
Russia is big
Russia didnt invade Ukraine. The army was on vacation.

Stick to the topic please
Crow 155 | 9,030
3 Apr 2016 #57
counterweight? why? for whom?

nonsensical rhetoric. Poland don`t have problems with Russia.
mafketis 36 | 10,791
3 Apr 2016 #58
Poland don`t have problems with Russia.

Says the crazy Serbian with no knowledge of Polish history....
AdrianK9 6 | 364
3 Apr 2016 #59
Poland don`t have problems with Russia.

No totally wrong Crow. Poland and Russia have been at it since each other's throats since a few centuries of establishing the Kievan Rus - sometimes the Russians won sometimes the Poles one. There was a point and time where Hussars were going around Moscow and Smolensk driving 30ft lances up the arses up the land of Boyars and also won the Polish-Soviet War. Then again, Poland was partitioned by Russia three times plus a Communist satellite nation and killed a lot of leaders, intelligentsia, soldiers, etc. during WW2.

At the current time, Russia is the country that mainly gives Poland it's headaches. They're on pretty good terms with most - even with North Korea they have business deals and trade agreements for seafood. They are worried about Russia because they are the closest superpower to them. Poland is scared of what happened in Ukraine and that one day Russia could come for them. Also, there has been a significant military build-up in Kaliningrad. Ultimately, Poland is a Nato buffer state with Russia - like Romania.

Polish and Russian relations went further down during the Smolensk crash and NATO's plans to put anti-missile sites in Poland. I personally would love to see Russian Polish relationships get better so Poland could get better trade. Russian goods are cheap and no one in the EU is trading with Russia because of sanctions. It's tense to say the least, but it's not as bad now as is has been throughout Poland's history.
Crow 155 | 9,030
3 Apr 2016 #60
Ultimately, Poland is a Nato buffer state with Russia - like Romania.

This is bad for Poland. Poland should align its policy with Hungary and Serbia. Like that somebody in Poland don`t wish to exploit Visegrad Group to the maximum, maybe, not even minimum. Those are circles loyal to western Europeans.

I personally would love to see Russian Polish relationships get better so Poland could get better trade.

in its final extent, better relations between Poland and Russia would make Poland one of centers of multi-polar world. Even Chinese policy on Poland confirms it and we all know that China and Russia coordinate its policy on global scale. Signals are given to Poland that is welcome in club of global powers, if.... What if? If just Poland have politically and militarily neutral stance on global powers. Its enough for Russia and China, because saving Poland from assimilation by Anglos means weakening the Anglos (western Europe). Then, having Poland as global power means having one day Intermarium between Russia and western Europe, what would be good for Russia.

and yes, being in club of global powers definitely means better trade, everything better.

Says the crazy Serbian with no knowledge of Polish history....

yes, remember that. Crazy enough to kill for Poland if come to that. Serbians sincerely love Poles and suffering of Poles always made them uncomfortable and nervous and moved them to found way to help Poles. And, we know Polish history well


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