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Election marathon 2018-2020 in Poland


cms neuf - | 1,022
2 May 2019 #331
Don't be such a snowflake Dolno - of course it's not offensive and as I said I think there are about 20 percent of people for whom retrospective justice is a key election issue. It's a free country and you and they can demoststate all they like about it and vote for parties who make that part of their platform.

What I am saying is that is not the key issue facing Poland today and it is fast becoming ancient history - anybody senior involved in persecution is now probably in their 80s.
Miloslaw 6 | 2,560
2 May 2019 #332
Donald Tusk`s presidency of the EC is slowly coming to its end. Experts suggest he is thinking of coming back to Polish politics.

I hope not, the man is a complete disaster.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
2 May 2019 #333
It depends a disaster to who? :) E,g, as a Poland-located politician, he was very efficient in containing PiS for many years. :) The opposition is already looking forward to that "Tusk effect."
Miloslaw 6 | 2,560
2 May 2019 #334
It depends a disaster to who?

I have always had the feeling that he is not much loved in Poland......
He cares more about "The EU project" than he does of his home country.
So, a disaster for Poland.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
2 May 2019 #335
As the EC president, he can`t care more about Poland than the EU. It would be mean and against all decent principles. I hope you will agree. Do you care more only about your Polish workers because of their and your common roots or you treat all equally? :)
dolnoslask 5 | 2,560
3 May 2019 #336
20 percent of people for whom retrospective justice is a key election issue

Thanks for your honesty, it goes a way to prove my suspicions that many in Poland today have no interest in bringing Murderers to justice or honouring the tens of thousands that sacrificed themselves for freedom.

When you say it is becoming ancient history, If the SB murdered your mother and father how long would it be that before you were happy to let them get away with it 10,20,30,40 years?, would you not be interested in how and where they died and who killed them.

But I can see that for some folks (80% by your calculations) it's more important to have wealth and material things rather than finding out the truth about other peoples grief and loss, I guess this is proven by the financial carrots that politicians offer them at election time.

I hear the comment "You have to take care of yourself" many times here , maybe you are right 80% of people don't give a $hit about anyone else as long as they are doing well.
mafketis 21 | 7,466
3 May 2019 #337
t many in Poland today have no interest in bringing Murderers to justice

The question is.... how? What will you use as evidence? What would sentencing be like? Which particular laws on the books would be used?

Going after individual cases that can be documented - great! Blanket laws harming people who had no involvement?..... not so much.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,560
3 May 2019 #338
Going after individual cases that can be documented

Yes the documented cases the documents are available people would be tried on evidence, It will take a non radical pro Europe party to put it onto their manifesto and I will vote for them.
cms neuf - | 1,022
3 May 2019 #339
But if the SB had murdered by parents then I would be in,my 70s, rather than middle age and I would have a whole different set of voting priorities. Pensions, healthcare and maybe some of this retrospective justice. So maybe I would vote for a party that wanted to spend taxpayers money on locking up some 90 something commies. As I said before there is a portion of the population that thinks that way.

I don't know how many people had their parents murdered by the SB but let's say there are a few hundred thousand voters. They would be far outnumbered by the kids of the Mundurki who now see their pensions reduced, in most cases just for taking some pragmatic decisions to feed their families in the 80s.

When you sit on the tram or in McDonalads or in a bar how many people do you here talking about the SB and Cursed soldiers ? But you do hear people talking about pensions, school strikes, kids working abroad, broken roads and he high cost of petrol. That is not materialism, it is just ordinary life.

Everyone in Poland has a war and communism tragedy in their family, in fact everyone in Russia and Germany does too, but for most people those are 3 or now even 4 generations removed so you can't expect it to be a priority at elections.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,560
3 May 2019 #340
I never said it should be a priority over building a strong and prosperous Poland, but Justice and truth should prevail, and whatever you say it is still a sore wound for many Poles, Nazis are still being tried for their crimes to this day, no criminal anywhere should be able to avoid justice.

The facts behind the very many disappeared have to be made public and not locked up in some vault as they are today.

The current Polish government has the files, the old Government in exile handed over it's files after 1989 , this information must be made available to the public, historians and prosecutors. Those who sacrificed deserve their story to be told.

Jaruzelski was buried with military honours, his regimes victims lie in cardboard boxes hidden away in a vault.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
3 May 2019 #341
Nazis are still being tried for their crimes to this day, no criminal anywhere should be able to avoid justice.

Totally agree!

To let commie criminals go reeks of disregard for their victims, it's just unfair and not a good base for healing.

Nobody would dare to treat Nazi victims that way...why ist it okay for commie victims?
Miloslaw 6 | 2,560
3 May 2019 #342
Do you care more only about your Polish workers because of their and your common roots or you treat all equally? :)

Point taken :-)
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,766
3 May 2019 #343
not a good base for healing.

I was born in 1942. Today, I feel as healthy as ever and I don't need any healing. I am sick of "healing".
Spike31 2 | 884
3 May 2019 #344
That's interesting. Even those opinion polls which were made for newsweek.pl and quoted by gazeta wyborcza are giving Konfederacja 5.6 % of votes in the upcoming elections.

So it is safe to assume that Konfederacja has more than that, especially since S.Michalkiewicz has revealed a letter to MSZ about act JUST 447 which the government would like to keep in secret before the elections.

wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/7,114884,24711556,najnowszy-sondaz-do-europarlamentu-pis-wciaz-na-prowadzeniu.html
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
3 May 2019 #345
are giving Konfederacja 5.6 % of votes in the upcoming elections.

That`s still low, close to the minimum margin which is 5%.
bolek_tusk 3 | 243
3 May 2019 #346
As usual, what you say is the product of the Kremlin disinformation factory

The principle three Polish politicians who are products of the Kremlin disinformation factory are Walesa, Komorowski and Tusk.

Noticed which party they all support? Also notice that the Bolshevik Coalition includes numerous old commies from the PRL era. PO would be floundering in the polls without the backing of the old PZPR.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
3 May 2019 #347
Also notice that the Bolshevik Coalition includes numerous old commies from the PRL era

Old commies are useful as they know how to defeat those new commies from PiS who are very dangerous political pests. :)
bolek_tusk 3 | 243
3 May 2019 #348
I hope not, the man is a complete disaster.

Well he's a great success for himself, but a complete disaster for Poland.

Sometimes I think Poland is doomed because, in spite of his unbelievable levels of corruption and attempts to sell off and destroy Poland when he was in charge he still has the level of support which he does. Just shows how ignorant so many people in Poland are.
jon357 63 | 14,255
3 May 2019 #349
Walesa, Komorowski and Tusk.

Rubbish. Nothing to do with the Kremlin at all.

Now the PiS flappers......
bolek_tusk 3 | 243
3 May 2019 #350
new commies from PiS

These new commies from PiS only exist in your head.
cms neuf - | 1,022
3 May 2019 #351
Weird that you left out Kwasniewski who was actually a commie.
bolek_tusk 3 | 243
3 May 2019 #352
Nothing to do with the Kremlin at all.

Everything to do with the Kremlin!

Bolek was a paid Communist collaborator. Where do you think he got his instructions from?

Who do you think ran Komorowski's WSI? - It was the Kremlin!
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
3 May 2019 #353
These new commies from PiS only exist in your head.

No, everybody knows they are new commies, even Korwin claims it:
rp.pl/Wolnosc/181129700-Korwin-Mikke-PiS-to-partia-komunistyczna-Chce-powrotu-PRL-u.html
Dougpol1 33 | 3,254
3 May 2019 #354
Kwasniewski

Who to be fair was non-partisan as president and generally did the right thing - apart from the Katyn debacle (which could happen to anyone......)

Now wouldn't this forum be so much better with smileys?
Ironside 48 | 9,902
3 May 2019 #355
retrospective justice

What that? Everything is retrospective justice as you cannot hunt a criminal before he commits a crime but only after.
Dougpol1 33 | 3,254
3 May 2019 #357
Where do you think

We've already learned that you nothing apart from what your grandad told you Bolek. Show us the proof - not that it matters anyway. Walesa climbed those shipyard gates - somebody had to. Others weren't up to the task.

Nobody knew then he wasn't going to be shot at for further inciting occupying workers. But you of course "know" better. It was all an arranged ploy.
jon357 63 | 14,255
3 May 2019 #358
Everything to do with the Kremlin!

Nothing at all. Lech Wałęsa had to deal with the authorities as did so many; his anti-soviet credentials are impeccable.

Who do you think ran Komorowski's WSI?

Not Russia, that's for sure.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
3 May 2019 #359
The principle three Polish politicians who are products of the Kremlin disinformation factory are Walesa, Komorowski and Tusk.

It's quite amazing that you repeat such primitive propaganda without actually providing any evidence whatsoever.

Meanwhile, you turn a blind eye to communists in PiS, probably because to you, they are "good communists".
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
3 May 2019 #360
Tusk.

He gave a lecture in Warsaw today in which he called to respect constitution - an allusion to PiS which has broken it several times since 2015. As it had been expected, he didn`t reveal his plans for the future when his position in EC expires.

he still has the level of support which he does.

It isn`t so high as it used to be but also not so low.

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