Poland's Economy Is Booming! The EU's Success Story?

if our economy is supposedly 'booming', then tell me, sir, why our poverty levels are SKYROCKETING??!

soo very sad!! :(

LIES LIES LIES AND MORE LIES!!!!!!!!!!

wbj/article-57975-poverty-on-the-decline-in-poland.html

believe me, those articles are nothing but LIES... just like many published news articles and statistics.

Of course, you speak to every person in Poland and know their financial situation. I believe you, random guy on the Internet.

says the guy who thinks of himself knowing economy. lol

since there are several predicted outcomes of the future of eu, maybe poland should look for alternatives.

What, vassals of the New Russian Empire?
The EU is not going anywhere, thats your fantasy that will not come to pass.

i like to visit poland because a 12 oz. beer at the bar in the USA costs $4-$5 whereas in Poland, a 17 oz. beer is $2. I don't like to visit England because a 17 oz. beer at the bar cost $8-$10. why is that? because I'm a dumb American that simply doesn't understand how currency works.

yep.

The Polish economy is like a legless war veteran, who after 20 years got the money for an electric wheelchair. Things are improving, but he can hardly be compared or said to be doing a lot better than a man with legs on anti depressants.

the difference being what you are getting or accomplishing for 10-12 hour days. if you're taking home 15,000zl per month with 50+ hour weeks, it's justifiable.

also, let's consider your buying power after all that work. in Poland, a good salary is around 3000zl/month net for most people (my in laws, one is a cop, the other is a nurse, barely make a combined 3,000 zl/month but let's use 3,000 for argument's sake) and in the USA (I use the USA because I know what numbers are accurate and what numbers are inaccurate) an average salary is around 3,000 USD/month net, excluding big cities where it's obviously higher. Now say you want to buy a plane ticket for $1000 to Chicago from Poland. That's an entire month's salary. For the American? A week and a half.

Time and time again, people forget to consider the buying power they have in the country they are talking about. What good is a "nice salary" if you can't buy anything with it?

My sister in law, 29 years old, has been in Germany for 10 years. As much as she doesn't like German culture or the people for that matter, she simply cannot ever see herself moving back to Poland because it simply makes no financial sense. Her entry level job out of university pays so above and beyond what she would earn in Poland to do the same thing that unless she finds a wealthy Polish guy one day, marries him and they decide they want to live in Poland, she'll never ever go back to her homeland to live.

These conversations are so silly. Nobody wants to look at Poland for what it is. I dig the place, enjoy visiting, had a good time there for a while.....but raise kids and grow old there? Oh hell no. Why do that when I have options, and options is exactly what a lot of Poles now have with the EU open border arrangement.

True. My friend who has a pretty good position in the company he works for and a doctorate makes 3400 PLN a month.

Well I knew many Poles who've been here in the States for years, were unhappy with the value of the dollar falling (prices rising) wages remaining the same and less work, took their savings sold their homes and went back to Poland and are happy there. The worst thing is a start, if people have money they can easily start and have a good life in Poland.

You are completely correct. Now, wages in Poland are low, but with high growth, over years they will rise to average Western European levels. Of course getting a comparatively low wage for a decade sucks. But that is a boom, might not be that good to be there while it happens but its the end result that matters.

USA/UK etc are in a different situation, wages for the middle classes in the US have been completely stagnant for a decade, in fact in todays money Americans earned far more during the 1970's than they do today.

Very true. If things don't change in the next few years, who the hell will wanna come here? Maybe some third worlders.

insert any country.


yes, there's been a slow deterioration of the middle class for years. i'd cite this as the biggest problem the US has right now as a whole. middle class in the USA lives well compared to most of the world....they used to live better.

I know..but were were talking about Poland.


Used to. As long as the big corporations are greedy and continue to send manufacturing jobs overseas it wont change for the better.

Its won't. The world has changed, Asia and the Third World has/is rising and its at the First Worlds expense. The world is flat and everyone will have to compete like for like, the only thing to keep you ahead is education - or using your capital in a lower cost/asset price location.

Big corporations continue to send manufacturing jobs overseas because consumers want cheap products.
I don't think it's possible to produce the same goods for the same price in the U.S.
I believe it is up to the consumer to choose to buy american, which seems to be a current advertising campaign.

I often see "Polski produkt" on items here but I don't believe that kind of selling is sustainable purely because people want things for cheaper.

That's what this thread is all about, obviously. Some see Poland as the next economic superpower which is immune to any ups and downs of the global market, others keep warning and pointing out that the overly rosy picture that is painted is not reality. Poland has made progress, no doubt, but that development can go down the drain in an instant. Just think of the trade with Germany, which is approx. 26% of all Polish exports and imports, and about the fact that German companies are by far the biggest investors in Poland. Germany just has to slip into a bad recession (or even worse: depression), and Poland will inevitably follow. And I'm not even talking about a crash of the Euro. But hey, what do I know - the Polish economy is booming... ;)


Most expats I know say that about their host culture - no matter where that is. People tend to get homesick and after a while they only see the negative aspects of their adopted country instead of the positive sides. That usually changes after a few years abroad.


Exactly. The problem with this is that the young and highly educated will leave for greener pastures and weaken Poland on the long run.

Not just the long run. The minute anyone in your work force bounces to another country, it's one less person paying into Poland's socialized system.


she's been there 10+ years.

Correct, but the negative effects will only become visible after a considerable number of people have left. That's why I said "long run".

German boyfriend?

And one more person remitting money from abroad.

Nothing wrong with social system, better the money is spent on education and infrastructure (medical expenditure in Poland is very low, six biggest expenditure) rather than pointless military spending like the US. The poor US education system could do with universal free university education, it might help reduce the US image as a nation of idiots. Israel has free university education,paid from by the US taxpayer via a billion dollar military grant, why not spend the money at home?

What makes you think that every Pole abroad is willing to do that? Even those who do: give it one or two generation(s) in their new home country and they'll forget about their relatives in Poland.

For themselves and their families. They're not paying Polish taxes on that income so the Polish state doesn't see a dime of it. Send all the money you want back to Poland, it doesn't end up in ZUS payments unless that money is creating jobs and putting more people on the payroll.


university. master's program. then work.


for the most part, i can agree with that. i'd gladly trade 1 battleship for higher SAT scores in our schools.

Its into the economy, spent and taxed via 23% vat.

Its a minor point, the economic growth is measured excluding remittances and 4billion/500billion =1% is sweet FA compared to the total growth of around 400billion since the end of communism


Not important, however lots of American Poles return and the numbers emigrating has dropped massively. Only 40k went to Germany.

Do you have sources for these claims? All I can find regarding Germany for example is that the Polish government expects approx. 400.000 Poles to emigrate across the border. Nothing about returning Polish Americans (or Poles living in the US going home) though.

cnbc.com/id/45984816/Eastern_European_Migration_Boosts_Germany_s_Population

Thanks.

There are Americans all over the place, its a well know phenomenon - look at the numbers here in PF. Polish Americans retire in great numbers around Zakopane for instance. Since I moved here in 2009 I've met loads of ex-Americans and not a single English expat.


The figure for the first year was low, 40k I believe, much to the Germans disappointment (they are desperate for skilled workers). The rate has increased, but its nothing like the the emigration to the UK/Ireland

What do you mean when you say, "American Poles"?

Are we talking about Poles born in Poland, spent some time in the USA, and then moved back?

Polish parents that moved to the USA, had children, and those children grew up and moved to Poland?

Americans, born and raised in the USA, who happen to have Polish roots or the random Polish last name, that moved to Poland?

A mixture, more those who were born in Poland and went to work in the US then returned. E.g. Wife's Polish born uncle, was a prison officer in Arizona and is now back in Poland.

If that's the case, I'd say using the term "American Pole" is misleading, even inaccurate as a whole, especially when saying, "There are Americans all over the place, its a well know phenomenon - look at the numbers here in PF. Polish Americans retire in great numbers around Zakopane for instance."

A Polish guy that moves to the USA to work for a few years and then moves back to Poland is Polish, not Polish American, just like I wouldn't call myself American-Polish after living in Poland for 4 years (or even 10 years for that matter) and then returning to the USA.

If that's the category these "Americans" you speak of fall under, you haven't "met loads of ex-Americans", you met loads of Polish people that lived in the USA for a while. Just like the Poles going to the U.K. to work for a while and come back are not British-Polish.

There is nowhere in Poland that you'll find "loads of Americans" or "ex-Americans" retiring.

Poland's Economy Is Booming! The EU's Success Story?

did you finally that that is not true or do you still argue about it?

I think we are at a point where we can start questioning the honesty of the Polish government... :)

The more I read about this topic, the more I get the feeling that something smells really fishy here. As we've learned earlier in this thread, it's not the predominantly "dumb" who left (and are still leaving) Poland, but the highly educated part of the population. Emigration is increasing and not decreasing, and the number of Polish immigrants in the UK, Germany, Norway and other west European countries is on the rise. Heck, I've even seen web sites which already claim that there is a shortage of highly skilled employees on the horizon in Poland. Which would mean increasing wage levels and a diminishing ability of Poland to compete with other countries for investors.

Let's hope that I'm wrong.