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Die Welt-Poland and Germany are the economic driving force of Europe


isthatu2 4 | 2,702
23 Jan 2011 #211
West should be thankful to China for supporting Africa financially in last years.

Yes,and for taking most of its rare earth,Im mighty thankfull for China starting on the path to colonialism arnt you....remember,starts with small trading posts,moves on to influencing local officials(both already happening) then leads on,history shows us,to far more direct,overt influence followed by ocupation/subjegation. Yep,pleased as punch about Red China's influence in Africa...
NomadatNet 1 | 457
23 Jan 2011 #212
China is red? Nooo, yellow.

So, in Africa, besides black and white, there is also yellow now? Maybe, it is there to remind the white isn't white, but, pink.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
23 Jan 2011 #213
Getting together is a concept in socialism, not a concept in capitalism which is based on individualism. Dangerous ones are not North nor South America, nor EU and nor Asia, but, Africa. They can eat everythings as they have been hungry for a long time. West should be thankful to China for supporting Africa financially in last years.

So, we are just supposed to let out economy fail because we can't stoop to what some view as "socialism" against a country that won't give us fair access to it's markets when practically everything everyone owns in this country is "made in China?"

We should forget about the concepts of "socialism" and "capitalism." Quit being theoretical for a moment and think about what is in our best interest. Do we want to collapse, or do we want to even out the playing field?
sascha 1 | 826
23 Jan 2011 #214
Do we want to collapse, or do we want to even out the playing field?

I guess that 'we' are not in the position of demanding or anything in that directon.
Like US&A, EU etc. are more in the position to ask or to negotiate if having sth to offer. Right now the balance shifted in another direction (China), highly irritating for many but somehow logical...
convex 20 | 3,978
23 Jan 2011 #215
The people making the crap that "we" buy are getting richer, OMG! Who would have thunk it?
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
23 Jan 2011 #216
The problem is, so much of our ecomony revolves around that "buying," so it's not practical to stop spending. It just isn't. It's the same with health insurance. Get rid of the middle man, some say, and the costs will go down and the unemployment figures will go up. What we should do, instead, is simply replace what they manufacture with products we manufacture over here, or tax what they manufacture so they can pay down our deficit.

This is the smart thing to do.

Why is it so difficult? The Chinese already have this figured out. Manufacture, then sell to the Chinese middle class (and the world because no one says it's not right) and keep all the money here in China. It just keeps circulating and circulating. It never leaves.

America hasn't got this basic principle figured out and you see the consequences all around. High unemployment. Recession. Some say borderline depression. Budget shortfalls.

You only hear one popular figure addressing the key problem, Donald Trump. The others are kowtowing to China and proposing draconian measures that will compromise standards in this country when none of it's necessary if you just address the real problem.
NomadatNet 1 | 457
23 Jan 2011 #217
"Made in China" everywhere is a result of globalization of capitalism that have been supported for many years by the West who have been unable to see things without magnifying glass. Capitalists have already fought a lot for years against the Socialism and they won. So, give up these?
AdamKadmon 2 | 508
23 Jan 2011 #218
Right now the balance shifted in another direction (China)

Do not bother.
NomadatNet 1 | 457
23 Jan 2011 #219
They are the slaves of American corporations

Even American military is their slaves of them..
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
23 Jan 2011 #220
They are the slaves of American corporations, well... mostly American. So do not bother.

We are becoming slaves to them. They have more power than you realize.
sascha 1 | 826
23 Jan 2011 #221
They are the slaves of American corporations, well... mostly American. So do not bother.

I'm not bothering at all, knowing that the Chinese side in this moment(who knows for how much longer more...) has the longer breath, costly for US and friends, but that's the way it goes.

Fact is that the free capitalizm and social capitalizm have to make adjudtments or it's fast going down the drain...
NomadatNet 1 | 457
23 Jan 2011 #222
All those poor people who have supported capitalism, from simple weak workers to powerful military people, need to shut up. You have no right on how those wealthy people spend their money.
sascha 1 | 826
23 Jan 2011 #223
Kamerad, you are joking, right?
If not explain me that knot of yours, pls.
NomadatNet 1 | 457
23 Jan 2011 #224
Kamerad, Comrade, Camarade, etc are military terms.
I have no knot. People including military people knotted themselves.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
23 Jan 2011 #225
You have no right on how those wealthy people spend their money.

We do have a right to figure out how to get money of our own...
NomadatNet 1 | 457
23 Jan 2011 #226
It is not your money anymore. Chinese didn't get the money on loan, but, by working and by giving products. Everythings happened within capitalism's own rules.

Btw, we hear central banks of West keeping printing more money.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
23 Jan 2011 #227
We have the right to play by the same rules, protecting our own interests. If we don't, who will?
NomadatNet 1 | 457
23 Jan 2011 #228
We have the right to play by the same rules

You, i.e. your guys, are not obeying their own rules. Central banks of the West have to print more extra money? Who doing that? I don't think a wealthy person in the West who have worked hard in the life to become successful will like this as it will mean the value of money of the West will reduce. Maybe, it is time to be workers for China. It won't be easy as it is not easy to sell them anything due to their low prices.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
23 Jan 2011 #229
It doesn't matter if the value of the dollar is reduced when you consider the fact that we export from countries that make things so cheaply. It balances out.

Why don't we just let Chinese workers be workers for China and American workers be workers for America? That way everyone's got work .
NomadatNet 1 | 457
23 Jan 2011 #230
It maybe balances out between US and China. But, US dollar has been a reserve money in many parts of the world. Losing credibility thing in other parts of the world especially. For some decades, USA and West of Europe have not been producing any real things other than weapons and money. Now, there are other big boys with big weapons. What can West offer any ordinary person of the world? China producing lots of real items being used daily. So, any ordinary person of the world will side with China. This can be seen in Africa clearly nowadays.

Why not been workers for China? US people have superior complexity?
sascha 1 | 826
23 Jan 2011 #231
Kamerad, Comrade, Camarade, etc are military terms.
I have no knot. People including military people knotted themselves.

There was no military connection or whatsoever... I was thinking in completly different direction since you mentioned capitalizm, socializm... Now clearer?

US people have superior complexity?

Yes, because they are made to rule ;-)
AdamKadmon 2 | 508
23 Jan 2011 #232
capitalizm, socializm

Be more creative. There are more -izms than are dreamt in your philosophies.

You can add -ism to practically any word. Try it, and you will see that there is lots of space between trivial ideologies of today.
NomadatNet 1 | 457
23 Jan 2011 #233
There was no military connection or whatsoever... I was thinking in completly different direction since you mentioned capitalizm, socializm... Now clearer?

There was. Concepts of capitalism and socialism are military concepts; in one of them, the gun protects the wealth, and in the other, the wealth protect the gun. Anyway. I had mentioned capitalism in the context of globalization as PlasticPole's words, about China production etc, were relevant.

Who are made to rule? US people? Or, money? (USA boy together with the boys of West of Europe have not accepted their offer of other world big boys that was about a global united money. It seems that they are still dreaming.)
sascha 1 | 826
24 Jan 2011 #234
Be more creative. There are more -izms than are dreamt in your philosophies.

Bravo. You noiced that too, without 'dreaming'?
What are the other options than for current situation/problem/crisis whatever?
Those are the predominant concepts nowadays and that's it. In variations maybe at the most.
What now?

There was.

At least I didn't put it in that context.

Concepts of capitalism and socialism are military concepts

And me being naive thought that those are economic concepts...
NomadatNet 1 | 457
24 Jan 2011 #235
NomadatNet:
Concepts of capitalism and socialism are military concepts
And me being naive thought that those are economic concepts...

Indeed, economic concepts. Guns too have been real trade products for making money. But, you know, when everybody has the product, the market saturates and it becomes difficult to sell it. Life getting difficult for everyone. Where is our superman who will save us..
Babinich 1 | 455
24 Jan 2011 #236
If you believe that the US started all of this

Bollocks... Your problems can't be because of the US. You don't have problems; the EU preformed stress tests that said all was fine.
Marek11111 9 | 816
24 Jan 2011 #237
Babinich U.S. preform the same stress test and they choose to keep it a secret, and few weeks ago Geithner said that U.S. will bail out any bank in trouble, and two days ago bank of America lost 1,2 billion dollars so as i said it started with deregulation of banking on Clinton watch and the financial crises started with Americans banks.

maybe you can remember who did creative financing in Greece to hide the laiabilities of gov. so they can join the E.U. if you say Goldman Sachs you are correct.
Babinich 1 | 455
24 Jan 2011 #238
Babinich U.S. preform the same stress test and they choose to keep it a secret

You may not believe the numbers but the results were no secret:

In the US, one organization performed stress tests. Forty-seven banks failed, requiring seventy-five billions dollars of capital to reflate the system.

Not to mention that the EU banking system is three and a half times the size of the US banking system relative to GDP. The EU banking system is that much more levered to GDP than US banks.

Twenty-six organizations performed EU stress tests. Ninety-two percent of the banks passed, one Greek bank failed requiring three billion Euros of additional capital.

Maybe YOU remember the defense deals struck with Germany by the Greek government (submarines) to gain entry to the EU.

First & last: The Greek government, as a sovereign, is responsible for hiding their liabilities.

If GS was involved in financial deals in Greece, which I don't doubt, who took the other side of the trade?
Marek11111 9 | 816
24 Jan 2011 #239
Babinich:
If GS was involved in financial deals in Greece, which I don't doubt, who took the other side of the trade?

yes it took two to tango, but you need to realize that the financial crisis were perpetrated by investment banks in U.S. and what allowed them to do was deregulation sigh in to law by Clinton, mainly getting rid of Glass–Steagall Act.


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