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Die Welt-Poland and Germany are the economic driving force of Europe


Marek11111 9 | 816
19 Jan 2011 #151
no I mean medicare for all, lets say that every one pays $100 a month out of the paycheck and that would be enough money to pay anyone doctor bill as long as you get rid of privet insurance.

right now you have insurance companies that charging you a premium for insurance but their businesses plan is to not provide medical care they look how low they can pay doctor or just cancel your coverage.

if I remember correctly the calculation was to provide everyone in America health care cbo came out with a number around one billion a year and that is ten times lower then one month of war in Afghanistan.

other thing you could do is to negotiate prices of medicine
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
19 Jan 2011 #152
If they did it that way it would be affordable only if they find ways to cut costs or it would end up costing billions. The govt would be propping up a multi billion dollar a year industry, healthcare/health insurance. It just wouldn't work.

One way it could possibly work is to shift the focus on the states instead of insisting the federal government do it all. That would break the costs into regional instead of national.
Marek11111 9 | 816
19 Jan 2011 #153
now U.S. spends 2 times as much as other countries with singlepayers

kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
19 Jan 2011 #154
now U.S. spends 2 times as much as other countries with single payers

We do pay too much. How do you make it cheaper without compromising quality?
Marek11111 9 | 816
19 Jan 2011 #155
you take out the insurance company the middle man out
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
19 Jan 2011 #156
Yes, I agree, the insurance companies are horrible! They have made the costs of health care astronomical. If I want an exam I end up paying $300 without insurance just to hear I am healthy. It's ridiculous. Why should I pay that much just to hear nothing was wrong anyway. It's better to hear that because I probably couldn't afford the cure if something were wrong.

The question is, how can you get rid of the insurance monster? It's already here, it's got millions of jobs connected to it with real people working them. What do you do? How do you lay off all those people in the insurance industry?

We would just lose more jobs.

It would be better to cut salaries and find other ways to lower costs than to extinguish individual jobs.
Marek11111 9 | 816
19 Jan 2011 #157
single payer a medicare for all that will lower medical costs for everyone even the corporations and small business so maybe they could hire more and the people right now that working for insurance companies good percentage of processing claims is done outside like in India.

the people working in U.S. could get hire by precessing office ( medicare office ) as they would process the claims.
I think it is morally wrong to profit for denying health care like insurance companies doing now.
Babinich 1 | 455
20 Jan 2011 #158
the solution is single payer, no more profit for not providing care.

So medical care is a right correct?
Babinich 1 | 455
20 Jan 2011 #160
In your opinion is medical care a basic human right?
Marek11111 9 | 816
20 Jan 2011 #161
yes it is a right as the humanitarian
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
20 Jan 2011 #162
In your opinion is medical care a basic human right?

In my opinion it is a basic human right, like food, clean drinking waters, shelter, community hygiene. Health care is something we all need to live.

At the same time, we should be responsible for our diets, bad habits and lack of exercise and should do more to prevent certain illnesses.
isthatu2 4 | 2,702
20 Jan 2011 #163
Is the powerfull or simply wealthy section of sociaty withholding the key to life by charging for medical access (gained through knowladge and discoveries of people in the main who were non profit humanitarians for the good of all) any better than the rich with holding food or water?
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
20 Jan 2011 #164
You must charge or people simply won't be motivated to do anything. Money is what is used to motivate human beings to move.
How much do you need to charge to get people to do something and how do you offset the costs so people have access? That's the dilemma.
isthatu2 4 | 2,702
20 Jan 2011 #165
PP,If tommorow,god forbid,you find a lump,will you have to pay to see someone about it? You see,I wouldnt have to,so working or temporarily financialy embaresed thats one less worry,you see where Im coming from.

I dont mean I expect Doctors to work for free,of course not,neither do I expect them to earn the pitince they do in Cuba say,but to have to pay at the point of first access,or even to have to worry about how to pay after is to my mind a hideous perversion of the Hipocratic oath and basic humanity.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
20 Jan 2011 #166
Isthatu, that's something so many Americans are facing, and it is a real, serious problem for them. What do they do if they do not have health insurance? Who is going to pay the bill if they don't have enough money?

will you have to pay to see someone about it?

Yes, of course, but I don't mind paying something because nothing is for free. What I wish is for one deal, like, one sum for everything. If you don't have insurance, you have to pay for office visit, tests, prescriptions. It's really expensive. Nothing is easy for the uninsured.

Why not just have a package for the uninsured, so we can pay one sum and get everything for whatever condition it is? Like, if I have a bladder infection, I pay seventy five bucks to get it diagnosed and treated, with no other costs.
isthatu2 4 | 2,702
21 Jan 2011 #167
Yes, of course, but I don't mind paying something because nothing is for free.

Exactly, You pay ,to my eyes,a huge amount just to see a Doctor but at the time where as I pay National insurence out of my wages,we both pay but even if Ive been out of work for 6/12 months I can still visit my Doctor on the day I first feel ill and not have to worry about whether that means I or my family eats more than beans and bread for the next few months.

Its not perfect but it means everyone gets equal access to health care including the sort of treatments that US medical insurers would avoid and would put non insured people into 100s of thousands of dollars of debt. Of course when earning a good wage I can pay into private insurence and then make use of private hospitals etc the only restriction is that the NHS will often not continue funding for exactly the treatment I may have been under going privatly if I can no longer pay the private company..
Babinich 1 | 455
21 Jan 2011 #168
I can still visit my Doctor on the day I first feel ill and not have to worry about whether that means I or my family eats more than beans and bread for the next few months.

Interesting... Every time you feel ill right? At no cost right?

Tell me why Cameron is looking for NHS to openly compete with private health care companies?

Tell me why the EU is burdened with debt with some looking to default?
isthatu2 4 | 2,702
21 Jan 2011 #169
Interesting... Every time you feel ill right? At no cost right?

Yes,but like I say,the rate of national insurence is far from "no cost"

Tell me why Cameron is looking for NHS to openly compete with private health care companies?

Because he is a right wing ,multi milionare twat who has never once ,despite his constant bleating about his son and new baby using the NHS actually been in a position where he would ever have to worry about paying any bills. Daddies millions,an Eton education and a membership of the conservative party dont exactly breed some one with the majority of the people at the heart of his concerns. "How much can be made,how many fat contracts can I get for the old boy network" and simply "how can I spite the left " would be the main motivations here,sadly,down to democracy we have to put up with this bunch of tory boys for another 4 years.

Tell me why the EU is burdened with debt with some looking to default?

I have no idea,is it because we tend not to let poor people die as a matter of policy and dont have the astronomical fees for Medical students that they have in the US therby compelling Doctors to think of the bucks then the patient?

Or is it maybe a big combination of many factors,one of them being the sub prime debacle that rippled out from the US?
Babinich 1 | 455
21 Jan 2011 #170
we tend not to let poor people die as a matter of policy

Unless you have statistics to prove the US "lets people die" then all your statement does is play fast and loose with reality.

Or is it maybe a big combination of many factors,one of them being the sub prime debacle that rippled out from the US?

It's not my fault. I hear that all the time...
Marek11111 9 | 816
21 Jan 2011 #171
Babinich:
Unless you have statistics to prove the US "lets people die" then all your statement does is play fast and loose with reality.

just look and you will find stories of people being deny coverage by insurance companies that they think the treatment is experimental or someone will need to have some expensive treatment they will find some pre existing condition so they can drop the person from coverage and then person is dead with out medical help. i do not think insurance companies keep statistics on who died after they doped them.

isthatu2:
Or is it maybe a big combination of many factors,one of them being the sub prime debacle that rippled out from the US?

the bankers did defraud Europe and they put gun to economy and said give us bailout or we will kill economy and then they are killing pension plans now and housing market with fraudulent foreclosures this is the biggest theft by the banks on tax payers around the world.

someone said " the best way to rob a bank is to own one"
isthatu2 4 | 2,702
21 Jan 2011 #172
isthatu2:
we tend not to let poor people die as a matter of policy

Unless you have statistics to prove the US "lets people die" then all your statement does is play fast and loose with reality.

I hope your reasoning isnt some silly patriotism thing"cant let the Brit point out anything that might not make the US look like heaven on earth".

Well,we have a policy of free at the point of acess to medical care,where as in the US Medicine Sans Frontiers often sets up clinics in sports halls to enable poorer people to acess the most basic health care,they use the same equipment they have to use in the 3rd world ...so yes,sorry to say,indirectly,people die as a matter of policy in the US,routinly and often.

.

It's not my fault. I hear that all the time...

Well its certainly not my fault,I own my house outright and dont use a credit card or have any outstanding debts,unless you can say the same I would suggest not trying to put a personal spin on this.

No one said it was ONLY the sub prime snafu in the US that is to blame for europes own reccesion and debts(which incidently are tiny compared to your own countries) but if you want to put that silly spin on what I left out ,then,knock yourself out mate.

Speaking of states looking to default etc,can you tell me how california is doing please....
Face it mate,we are all in the brown stuff,difference being you are a far deeper than europe right now.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
21 Jan 2011 #173
just look and you will find stories

the bankers did defraud Europe

no one wants your biased opinions, LINKS PLEASE !!!
isthatu2 4 | 2,702
21 Jan 2011 #174
Oh,pleez,the evidence is all over the net GW...can I just calll you "Dubya" ? ;)

moneyweek.com/investments/stock-markets/what-went-wrong-at-lehman-brothers-03809.aspx
guesswho 4 | 1,289
21 Jan 2011 #175
Oh,pleez,the evidence is all over the net

evidence for what? that the US let's people die (utter bs)

if it's allover the net, don't you think it makes one more reliable to just post it instead to speculate.
You only back him up because you also don't like America (you know and I know I'm right here), otherwise you'll be also screaming for links.

To your information, Americans can get all kinds of help (also medical) from hundreds (better said, thousands) of different charities all around the country. The problem is that many Americans don't know about their options about where and how to get some help.

I choose to dismiss his posts since he often proved his very negative opinion about us.

/investments/stock-markets/what-went-wro ng-at-lehman-brothers-03809.aspx

Does it prove that the US let's its people die?

Besides, I asked marek a question not you. Did he hire you to defend him?
isthatu2 4 | 2,702
21 Jan 2011 #176
Er,GW,I sometimes think your a clever troll,honestly,come on,do I have to rip your points apart?
1, You asked marek specificaly for evidence regarding the Banking crisis,you asked for links,I got in first and gave you a link re the banking crisis.

2,

You only back him up because you also don't like America (you know and I know I'm right here), otherwise that you'll be also screaming for links.

Rubbish,and you know it,theres lots I love about America,I just dont happen to like your health care system,go and tell the large % of americans who dont like it either that they dont like america.....I never "scream" for links,Im no old git but Im old enough to remember a time when people actually retained information and could pass it on relativly acuratly without having to consult wikipaedo.....it simply rarely occurs to me to ask for verification,if I want it I'll look myself .

3

To your information, Americans can get all kinds of help (also medical) from hundreds (better said, thousands) of different charities all around the country.

Wow,seriously,this is your come back when I point out MSF sets up clinics in US sports halls,to tell me that its not the only CHARITY that does this in the US !!!! Is that meant to make the situation look better??

Its still feking CHARITY!!!!What next for the sweet land of liberty,work houses for the poor ??

I choose to dismiss his posts since he often proved his very negative opinion about us.

negative or posotive,it is still someones opinion...if I chose to dismiss everything negative said about the UK on line Id end up reading about 1/16th of what I do on here.... only a fool thinks everything is rosey in their garden simply because its their garden. I have a Tory government here now,which I hate with a passion,hardly makes me anti british does it?
guesswho 4 | 1,289
21 Jan 2011 #177
Er,GW,I sometimes think your a clever troll,honestly,come on,do I have to rip your points apart?

Oh yeah, now it comes the intellectual guru. I'm so scared.

1, You asked marek specificaly for evidence regarding the Banking crisis,you asked for links,I got in first and gave you a link re the banking crisis.

I never denied anything about the banking crisis. He used the word "defraud" and this is what I want him to prove, nothing else.

Rubbish,and you know it,theres lots I love about America

You were kind of nice to me in your PMs, that's true but how do you explain the fact that you're attacking America on PF anytime you can? It's not only about our health care system.

go and tell the large % of americans

as I said, most of them don't know where to get help. I'm not against the health care reform in general as long as we can afford it.

but Im old enough to remember a time when people actually retained information and could pass it on relativly acuratly

Don't forget that the information that people accumulate always comes from other people who write it and it's rarely unbiased. No one knows the real truth about anything. Just look how often people argue about historical facts and why is it so, it's because just about any country has its own version of it. The only thing that is really convincing is what you can see and touch. Then again, it still will be your personal opinion based on your preferences.

Is that meant to make the situation look better??

Not better but it's more realistic to say that people can get help if they know how.
many people here don't have any insurance and still visit doctors and the bill is paid by one of the local charities. Did you know about it? I bet you didn't.

Look, why don't I discuss about the UK much? Simply because I've never lived there and I would make myself look stupid if tried to say something and wouldn't be able to back it up with some real facts. What makes you an America expert? How long have you lived here to know so much about us or do you just depend your knowledge about us on your media or what other people tell you? I lived in Europe, especially in Germany and Poland and I know what their media says about us. What they say is often biased and definitely not America friendly.

negative or posotive,it is still someones opinion..

yes but opinions are always biased this way or another and nothing of it is to be taken for granted.

only a fool thinks everything is rosey in their garden simply because its their garden.

No one here says that it's "rosey" but if you want to criticize it, you have to come and live here for a longer while otherwise it will always be a "breadless art" type of discussion.

I have a Tory government here now,which I hate with a passion,hardly makes me anti british does it?

Well, I don't know how many times I already said that I don't like my current government. I guess, that makes us brothers in arms, lol
Marek11111 9 | 816
21 Jan 2011 #178
guesswho:
I choose to dismiss his posts since he often proved his very negative opinion about us.

you are poor and brainwashed soul, do you like everything government tell you or do, do you choose to stay ignorant and fact has no place in your demented brain. Oh I almost forgot you lied to me before so that is make you LIER a dishonest troll.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
21 Jan 2011 #179
I don't like the current government at all but I deny to accept any of your "TRUTH" as you're an obvious America hating ignorant.

Besides, why don't you just freaking suicide and free the world of your pessimism. The last thing Americans need right now is having to deal with a Nostradamus11111.
JaneDoe 5 | 114
21 Jan 2011 #180
Attention Mods: the posters are way off topic. It's not yet another thread about the USA.
Thanks!


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