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Demonstrations in Poland in defence of democracy.


mafketis 36 | 10,708
23 Jan 2016 #1,321
More signifiantly their influecne is clearly waning

The majority of Poles think that the personalities of leaders are more important than the law! Just like the PRL

Kaczyński is basically Gierek with Catholicism instead of Communism.
Dougpol1 31 | 2,640
23 Jan 2016 #1,322
Kaczyński is basically Gierek with Catholicism instead of Communism.

No no Mafketis. I happen to know some of the stories about Gierek, as we were neighbours for a short time in Kato. The poor old buffer was popular when he first gave the old head office job a crack, and probably meant well in some ways.

The same could never be said of hater Kaczynski.
mafketis 36 | 10,708
23 Jan 2016 #1,323
I happen to know some of the stories about Gierek

I mean in general societal terms, an economic populist who created an economic mess whose effects are still felt.
Dougpol1 31 | 2,640
23 Jan 2016 #1,324
an economic populist who created an economic mess whose effects are still felt.

Oh yes - absolutely. That was Gierek's and Poland's tragedy. He was the Great Hope against what the British term austerity. He got to spend the great IMF loan and build the appalling white elephants, such as Huta Katowice.

But as I said - he had a vision. Kaczynski probably knows a lot about cats, but his economic manifesto is worse.
He doesn't and has never had one!
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,149
23 Jan 2016 #1,325
Still, I'm sure tomorrow's newspapers around the world will report how Poles took to the streets in 44 different demonstrations today.

Sure. That's what the whole thing is about.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
23 Jan 2016 #1,326
Absolutely. The whole point is to draw attention to what this government is doing.
polishinvestor 1 | 361
23 Jan 2016 #1,327
No need for demonstrations, PIS is digging its own political grave. Its not the first or last time you get a government doing this. Thats their choice, but they wont get in for 2 or 3 terms probably. They may get a bit better at their job and avoid doing some irrepairable damage, lets hope so. They probably mean well but dont have the ability to source the actions required to get the results they want. But in life or business meaning well is never good enough.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
23 Jan 2016 #1,328
They probably mean well

Au contraire, I don't think so. The party is controlled by two types - ex-PZPR members and younger individuals who see public service as a way of enriching themselves. Both groups have a common interest - making money at the country's expense.
Polonius3 994 | 12,367
23 Jan 2016 #1,329
draw attention

The whole point is to draw attention to who is marching beneath KOD's banners -- reitred PZPR, SB, TW, KO and ORMO types as well as representatives of foreign corporate interests fearing the loss of influence and privilege. The useful idiots may actually believe they're marching for what they're told is a "worhwhile cause", but this has absolutely nothing do with democracy. Interestingly, S&P "altruistically" (?!) downgraded Poland's credibiltiy the minute the bank tax came to the fore. Banks also have nothing to do with democracy -- they are mainly concerned about exploitation opportunities, cheap local staff, tax exemptions and maximum profit transfer abroad.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
23 Jan 2016 #1,330
The whole point is to draw attention to who is marching beneath KOD's banners

That's simply not true. Your agenda is very obvious Polonius - just like you did back before 1989, you're trying to discredit the opposition to the government by linking them to things that are simply made up. If you want to talk about PZPR members, why don't you talk about PiS and the way that they appointed an ex-PZPR public prosecutor to lead the human rights commission?

Interestingly, S&P "altruistically" (?!) downgraded Poland's credibiltiy the minute the bank tax came to the fore.

That's because the bank tax isn't credible.

they are mainly concerned about exploitation opportunities, cheap local staff, tax exemptions and maximum profit transfer abroad.

What a strange way to talk about two of the biggest Polish businesses - PKO and PZU.
Polonius3 994 | 12,367
23 Jan 2016 #1,331
1 idiot in each village

The village idiots will bolster the ranks of the useful idiots -- the political cannon fodder of the shrewd, crafty, conniving KOD leadership.
jon357 74 | 21,782
23 Jan 2016 #1,332
Your agenda is very obvious Polonius - just like you did back before 1989, you're trying to discredit the opposition to the government by linking them to things that are simply made up

This time it seems he's doing it for free. Probably. PiS have certainly been caught using paid online trolls.

Amazing the hostility from some people online to the Polish pro-democracy movement. A hostility that doesn't exist in reality.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
23 Jan 2016 #1,333
Amazing the hostility from some people on here to the Polish pro-democracy movement.

It's quite amazing to read, until you realise that most of them don't actually live in Poland or don't have Polish citizenship.

I think it says a lot that the pro-government supporters are staying firmly away from taking full part in the life of this country.
Polonius3 994 | 12,367
23 Jan 2016 #1,334
Amazing the hostility

Amazing the hostility online towards Poland's democratically elected government and the first ever to win an outright majority. That hostility does not exist in Polsih society except amongst KOD fanatics and virulent GW/TVN propagandists. In chatting with ordinary Poles exercising the dog, shopping, waiting at tram stops and surgery waiting rooms, many are neither pro nor anti-govt but are fed up with the whole business of political overkill -- KOD marches, Sejm harangues, Petru, EP debate, etc. If you don't see that, it only means you interact primarily within a niche group of like-minded devotees rather than a representative cross-sexction of Polish society. After a temporary drop in support, PiS is now back at the 37-39% level which had enabeld them to win the election.
dolnoslask
23 Jan 2016 #1,335
" don't have Polish citizenship" I take it you have yours now Delph, congratulations, You can now demonstrate and stand in the defense or our democracy, respect.
Polonius3 994 | 12,367
23 Jan 2016 #1,336
like you did back before 1989

What is your source for this alleged pre-1989 information, if I may ask??
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
23 Jan 2016 #1,337
We're now seeing the first articles come in...

bbc.com/news/world-europe-35392526

Thousands of Poles have taken part in marches in Warsaw and other cities to protest about plans of the conservative government, which they say will curtail privacy and freedom.

I've seen articles on the highly respected Christian Science Monitor, Reuters, The Wall Street Journal, Euronews and Sputnik International, showing that the message is being received loud and clear.
dolnoslask
23 Jan 2016 #1,338
Tell u wot guys loads of people were out on the streets moaning about internet surveillance, there was one guy with long hair (looked like a ferret) I think he was a PFer.

The government will be marking some anti polish internet posters cards soon that's for sure. Admin is safe in the US that's the main thing.

take a look below

liveleak.com/view?i=c81_1453584603
Polonius3 994 | 12,367
23 Jan 2016 #1,339
message is being received

The message is being received only by the biased leftstream and pro-corporate media.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,149
23 Jan 2016 #1,340
But it's a good case study showing that a "revolution" can be manufactured out of pretty much nothing.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
23 Jan 2016 #1,341
The message is being received only by the biased leftstream and pro-corporate media.

dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3413289/Poles-fearing-attack-democracy-government-join-protest.html

Protesters are furious about government steps that they fear limit checks and balances on the party, which has a majority in parliament and also controls the presidency. Soon after taking power, Law and Justice took steps to curb the power of the Constitutional Tribunal, increased government control over state media and widened the scope for police surveillance.

timesofoman.com/article/76009/World/Europe/Since-Poland's-Law--amp;-Justice-party-took-power-its-moves-to-control-the-judiciary-and-media-have

"So we Hungarians should warn you: whatever Kaczynski promises, this road is going towards autocracy, economic backwardness, a shrinking middle class and increasing poverty."

Sorry Polonius, but those on the right of politics are also reporting it.

36 demonstrations today. Don't forget that people are working to make sure that the people that really matter know about what's going on here.
Ironside 53 | 12,366
24 Jan 2016 #1,342
suggest the use of the legal system/police/water cannons/etc against demonstrators

Sure, they are demonstrating allegedly in defense of democracy. They are free to do so, they face no real consequences and are protected by the police from the angry bystanders whom they start to annoy.

Ironically most of them in totalitarian times were walking the line and never wavered. I just would like to see if they would be faced by a very real and personal costs of their involvement into that pointless anti-government action would they still dared to show they sorry asses on the street. My bet is - NO.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
24 Jan 2016 #1,343
They are free to do so, they face no real consequences and are protected by the police from the angry bystanders whom they start to annoy.

What angry bystanders? There's been a few random nationalists showing up in a handful of places, but that's about it. I don't recall any trouble at any KOD demonstration - perhaps you're getting mixed up with other demonstrations that regularly ended in violence?

Ironically most of them in totalitarian times were walking the line and never wavered.

Getting mixed up with PiS again, are we?

I just would like to see if they would be faced by a very real and personal costs of their involvement into that pointless anti-government action would they still dared to show they sorry asses on the street.

I imagine they would. Many of the older people that I've spoken to were members of Solidarność in 1980-1981 and took part in opposition activities. Perhaps it's the fact that these are genuine patriots that scares you, huh?
Harry
24 Jan 2016 #1,344
What is your source for this alleged pre-1989 information

"Polonia Press" is the name in Polish government records, which is odd, given that Google offers no trace of such an organization other than the words of one man.
NocyMrok
24 Jan 2016 #1,345
There's been a few random nationalists showing up in a handful of places, but that's about it.

Told you before but I'll repeat myself.

Poles don't care about some small artificially created and banksters led "nationwide(rofl) movement" of no significance.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
24 Jan 2016 #1,346
Poles don't care

Of course they don't. That's why there were over 40 demonstrations today ;)

Remember, the demonstrations are just one part of it. There are many, many more things happening.
NocyMrok
24 Jan 2016 #1,347
That's why there were over 40 demonstrations today ;)

Poland is 38 milion people country. I'd consider KOD protests being of some importance if those gathered a million of Poles (which would be arguably small amount too. 1/38th of population) but Bankster Petru can't even find a 100 thousand of them in a country of 312,679 km2 big area.

Insignificant. It's just good to release steam for the PO losers that can't get over losing elections.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
24 Jan 2016 #1,348
but Bankster Petru can't even find a 100 thousand of them in a country of 312,679 km2 big area.

Why are you bringing up Petru when he isn't involved except as a guest speaker in one city on a couple of occasions?

Don't worry. The point is that you don't realise that the street demonstrations are just one small part of the overall effort. We can already see that our efforts gets the stories in the international media week after week after week.

Insignificant. It's just good to release steam for the PO losers that can't get over losing elections.

The fact that you're naive enough to think that PO are behind KOD says you really haven't got a clue.
NocyMrok
24 Jan 2016 #1,349
international leftist media

Fixed it for you.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
24 Jan 2016 #1,350
Ah yes, the Daily Mail, Daily Telegraph, those bastions of left wing journalism along with the Times of Oman and the Christian Science Monitor!

Dearie me.


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