Demonstrations in Poland in defence of democracy.

weeg but what price was our freedom, Britain was broken by america after lend lease.

Anyway at Todays prices the marshal plan was 103.4 billion, somehow I don't think Poland has received that from the EU unless you tell me otherwise.

I don't follow situation (no time and not interested) but I don't believe foreigners living in Poland should be involved. I'm sure they would not tolerate Poles or others to demonstrate and fight against their governments so why doing so in Poland? What about if Poles (or others) dared demonstrating/fighting against Cameron (or others), how would Britons (or others) react?

Sorry, but foreigners even when paying tax (my case too) should not plot against and destabilize any government.

20billlion per year for 10 years. A large amount of it is Maggie Thatchers rebate, Tony Blair gave it up with the proviso that it was give the the CEE states.

I dont think youll find my foreigners at such demos. Unless maybe teachers or students.
As for plotting to destabilise Poland, I think even Szydlo said that people had a right to demonstrate as it shows democracy is in place. In any case, the government has started to destabilise the country all by itself. These days money talks and if you are taking you have to walk the line, at least officially if not privately.

Fine with me. More than a few Poles in the UK take part in national elections too, which is also fine with me.


The 18% regime is so incompetent that there's no need to plot against it: it destabilises itself. Sadly it also destabilises Poland too and now Poles have to pay more for their bank accounts, more for their food, more for their clothes, more for their car insurance, more for their holidays, more for their homes, etc, etc, etc.

The country is stable. There's actually nothing wrong happening. All the fuss and ass-umptions are made by by kod and nowoczesna(platforma 2.0) blind supporters along with Germany owned media such as onet that was asking people to gather and demonstrate in front of Kaczyński's home (75% of onet belongs to Ringier Axel Springer) and Tomasz Lis from Newsweek (Ringier Axel Springer) acting as what ignorant platformers accuse PiS for.

Dear Leader Chairman Kaczyński has already made it clear that he intends to change the electoral law in order to help PiS.


And yet they pretend to be acting in the best interests of Poland.

One really starts to wonder exactly what the agenda is.

Somehow the news media are not reporting crowd sizes for Saturday's huge marches dominated by thousands upon thousands of young and very young enthusiastically chanting, ranting and placard-waving Poles. Since you are in thick wtih KOK, could you please provide some fresh and reliable data?

Finding it very difficult to understand why so many immigrants in Poland always consider their opinion higher than the indigenous population. Your a guest for f---s sake and act accordingly. If Syrian or African immigrants decided to mount the soap box on Marshalkowska the vocal anti PIS would be first to shoot them down. Poland is still a young democracy ans will going through growing pains. I for one think it's positive PIS will shake things up a little and create a more even playing field which will benefit more people. The voting population wanted a change of the guard and that is what they have got, PO got complacent and Tusk took all the best people in PO to Brussels, so you snooze you lose. The usual suspects on this thread are just flaming nationalism for Polish readers, I am not Polish, I have lived in Poland for many years and I am ****** off at many of the anti PIS comments on PF. Let the Poles rule their roost no outside interference they will either survive and flourish or bike by their own sword. I for one believe they will go forth and multiply and create a better future for Poland. Do not compare Londons multiculturalism to any other European city, what we have in London is unique and will never be replicated by any other European city. The current wave of economic migrants and refugees are a different breed to the Uk migrants of the 60/70 s, the current wave to Europe symbolic of our times, they expect to be given and not work for it. PIS will do a good job filtering the bad one. I expect young Germans to be moving to Poland in the next decade for safety reasons, just as Brits are relocating to Canada, Austrailia and Poland today.

2005-2008 was the boom period after Poland joined the EU. Money and investment were flooding in and driving growth. The years that followed saw huge contractions in world growth and recessions almost everywhere but not in Poland. You could say PO kept Poland out of recession or you could say the EU money which was flowing in to projects such as infrastructure helped to avoid GDP contraction and instead make Poland the only country in the EU to avoid recession (building roads and bridges counts to GDP). This more than anything underlines the importance of EU funding and why Poland needs to maintain this flow as much as possible. What happens in Poland is largely influenced by what is happening in the global economy. When there is concern, people reduce exposure to riskier investments such as Poland. There is nothing that can be done about that apart from striving to be more integrated economically with Europe and thus reducing the countrys risk rating.

@PiSwelldone

Thank you for your very reasonable comment. It is simple but somehow some can't understand it. If you're a guest in our country then act like a guest and be polite. Leave shaping the future of our country to ourselves and just enjoy your stay. Those who try to change Poland to their needs are mostlikely selfish capitalists that don't like the money flow will get limited and zlotys will stay in Poland.

Nothing in Poland was acheived without EU money and guidance.
Poland achieved nothing autonomously.
If Poland cannot suck off the EU tit, regression will follow, for sure and certain.

LOL. How did EU help us get rid of Russian occupation then? Ignorant

I believe getting rid of Russians and giving an example to other countries to follow was one of our autonomous achievement greater than EU's collective achievement of bringing savage tribes of Muslim cavemen into Europe.

Yeah idiot. Before 2004 we were riding horses only. Dude, show me a country that after joining EU experienced some unusual growth. If "EU" gives hundreds of billions as you say, show me the boom it's making.

Everyone - stop name calling now

To a large extent that is true. That is precisely the problem no govt has so far addressed. The question is: must that eternally remain the case. Is Poland doomed to eternally being a recipient of handotus and an object of manipulation?That major drawback could be dealt with through education -- massive govt training programmes teaching entrepeneurship in different fields, bringing in foreign trainers as needed and granting stipends to train people abroad. Farmers for instance could be encouraged throuihg training, grants and tax breaks

not to sell raw produce but to pool their resources and set up processing plants. There are myriad ways in which Poland could become a genuine player, not just a pushed-about pawn. They have the manpower, resources and potential -- now it's a question fo getting their act together.

PI, this is the reason they are called integration funds ...
In my opinion Brusels turned a blind eye to what was going on in Poland under the PO. Most current advisors to Brussels on Poland you would expect to have come out of the PO camp with the Tusk train. NATO and Brussels have been expanding eastwards since the break up of the Soviet Union, there was and is a price to pay for this which is always greater then the first draft. We can use the unification of East / West Germany as a case study in this scenario.

Right. It's the guy that claims Poland received hundreds of billions of euro from EU. Typical liberal. Rofl

You can thank Russia for not having to speak German. Turds

Don't call ma Turd. People might think we are family.

very good question.

Problem is, my friend, that you refuse to accept simple fact. That is- reaction of EU (ie western Europe) on Poland`s attempt to be independent player. Do you now realize what was Yugoslavian and Serbian problem, when Serbs refused dictate of EU? Sure, its not called that way publicly. Nobody says publicly that Serbia refused EU dictate and then was punished. The question is, are Poles willing to pay the price of independence. Look, the price is more then high.

Now, good news for you is that strategic situation in world dramatically changed in last 25 years. When Yugoslavia and Serbia opposed to EU dictate, it was truly world solely dominated by one power- USA and western Europe. We now live in world that already shifting in direction of multi-polar world. There is the great hope of Poland that can win its independence and avoid greater level of devastation. Because, as Poles already learning that, if you aren`t 100% with western Europe and USA, they are against you.

Polonius, you make an interesting point above.


No. Poland should be using the EU money to become a second Germany in terms of industrial power.


No. The EU structural funds are there so that Poland can build the infrastructure needed to stand on her own two feet.


Good idea. It should be taught from the very beginning - from kindergarten - so that children get equipped with the skills needed. It would be a massive investment as you say, but it would pay off massively. When you consider that 7 billion złoty is spent on pensions for miners, that money could easily provide such a programme.


Yes, it would be a great idea to bring in German and American experts so that we can learn from their culture of small family-owned businesses that are successful. We absolutely should emulate them in this sense.


Unfortunately, PiS just cut those funds. We still have the Erasmus+ programme, but the other funds available to study things in more detail abroad have gone. But again, it would really benefit Poland to have a programme where talented Poles would be funded to go and study abroad on condition that they use the skills in Poland upon their return.


Absolutely. Look at the way that the French cooperatives work - that's pretty much identical. It involves a change of culture however, which is why it would be best to abolish KRUS for small farmers and make it clear that only belonging to a larger cooperative will allow them to pay it.

but in what level Poland can expect friendly support from western Europe and good economic cooperation, if Poland declare that wants real independence and even to go out of EU?

Do you believe that western Europe (ie EU) won`t be against Poland`s independence and won`t use any means to punish disobedient Poland?

Anyway, here goes. We're going to see a huge amount of demonstrations this coming weekend.

There's also other demonstrations planned abroad, but I don't have the current list at the minute.

Kaczyński is on the record as saying that he expects huge protests in the spring. He's right.

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What was the head count of the huge demos that sloshed through the slush for foreign banks, Petru & nomenklatura on 16th January? Neither you nor the media have mentioned them.

That's because there weren't any, except abroad. Budapest also saw a demonstration, and I believe that there are demonstrations today in Chicago, Stockholm and other places.

And people are most definitely not going out to support the PiS-backed nomeklatura that stands to massively gain by the wiping out of small Polish businesses by the pro-Putin PiS policies.

Stop your propaganda. KOD has 127k likes on Facebook. I can see 1/4 maybe 1/3 of those people demonstrating witch makes them 25-30k protesting worldwide. That isn't even a fair amount nowhere close to "huge". Huge is the amount of us Poles who laugh at KOD psychos.

Keep on with the PiS-propaganda, we all know that PiS are paying people to say this stuff online.

Anyway, the number of cities demonstrating are growing - I've got 37 at the last count. We can expect more.

And they include bustling metropolises such as Siedlce, Poland and Podunk Junction, Arkansas. There are more to come.

It's not propaganda. These are simple facts clear to see to anyone. KOD along with the few of its supporters is totally insignificant. Psy szczekają, karawana jedzie dalej. It's the typical example of hater/clueless minority being always most vocal where people that are fine with the situation don't whine publicly. They have no reasons to do that.

Trying to dismiss nationwide protests (as well as those taking place abroad) as being "insignificant" is amusing when you consider how much effort the PiS-controlled media have spent abusing KOD ;) If KOD were genuinely insignificant, PiS would ignore them. Remind us why PiS banned drones from flying over Warsaw after one was used to illustrate how big the demonstration was a few weeks ago?

Anyway, yesterday in Budapest :

facebook.com/events/529494690539063/permalink/534788723342993/