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Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights?


Y12$
9 Jul 2015 #781
I don't really understand why people have such a polarized views of this (i.e. If you're gay, you must be anti-Christian or if you are Christian, you must be anti-gay). I just think people should think for themselves as to how they relate to other people -- i.e. treating other people with respect, etc. I mean the Bible does contain passages already that all people disregard (isn't there a passage that people who work on the "Sabbath" should be put to death. How can anyone reasonable take that passage literally? I mean Islamic radicals taken the Koran literally and what do we have, ISIS and terrorism). In many ways, I think the Bible makes itself open to interpretation, especially in modern context. So to me it becomes a question about how should some parts of the Bible be interpreted in the modern context.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
9 Jul 2015 #782
if you are Christian, you must be anti-gay

Terms should be deifned more precisely. Anti-gay means someone who believes homosexuals should be punished (anti-sodomy laws reintsated), jailed, beaten, deported or otherwise represeed. Believing accoridng to one's faith that marriage is the solemn union of a man and woman is not being anti-gay.

The parallel is calling someone critical of Israel's handling of the Palestinians an anti-Semite.

if you are Christian, you must be anti-gay

Re the Bible, many of the Old Testament bans and injunctions were abroagted by Jesus. These include an eye for an eye, dietary laws, Saturday Sabbath, etc. But equaitng homosexual conduct with abomination was carried over to the New Testament as were Thou shalt not kill, steal, bear false witness, etc.
Y12$
9 Jul 2015 #783
Polonius3
I actually wasn't even thinking about the topic of marriage. I understand your point. I don't live in Poland, but in N. America so my perspective is different (there is a large number of Christian and other religious groups). In my comment, I was mainly thinking of Christian groups that do take the Bible to the extreme and actually quite selectively -- you can look up Westboro Baptist Church on Wikipedia and you will see what I mean.
Atch 17 | 2,918
9 Jul 2015 #784
Believing accoridng to one's faith that marriage is the solemn union of a man and woman is not being anti-gay.

So you actually agree with Archbishop Diarmuid Martin whom you dismissed as looking for cheap popularity and trying to be trendy. Because that's exactly what he says Polonius. He says it's not homophobic to be against same sex marriage but it is homophobic to make comments which insult and ridicule gay people, which you do constantly on this forum.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
9 Jul 2015 #785
@Pol: being homophobic is not only aiming at physical destruction of gays and lesbians but it is also denying them the equality in rights as citizens and on a daily life pattern, insulting them, making fun of them, in other words stigmatizing them because they have a different sexuality. And yes, you and your friends, Johnny, Levi and some others whose names I don't recall are truly homophobic.

I bet you don't and you would not socially interact with gays and lesbians solely because they are gays and lesbians. Am I wrong? ;)

When not in their bedrooms, gays and lesbians get up, take shower, have breakfast, go to work, pay tax, have lunch, dinner, go to movies, theater, shopping, on vacation ... just like you and your consorts do. When they are sad, they cry, when they are happy, they laugh.... Don't they teach you anything else but hatred at your Church?

@Johny: who the hell are you to decide who lives in "sin" and who does not? Personally, I don't give your bible (written by whom?) more credit than what I might read in Fakt, SuperExpress or Mickey Mouse Magazine ....

Gays and lesbians are not interested in what you do in your bedroom so please give them a break and mind your own business.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
9 Jul 2015 #786
gays and lesbians get up, take shower, have breakfast, go to work,

That is precisely the point and pertains not only to same-sex couples. When not in their bedrooms cohabitating brothers and sisters get up, take shower, have breakfast, go to work, pay tax, have lunch, dinner, go to movies, theater, shopping, on vacation... Why deprive them of the right to marry?
Atch 17 | 2,918
9 Jul 2015 #787
When not in their bedrooms cohabitating brothers and sisters

Stop it now. Go and visit the Franciscans Polonius, you are really in need of some help and spiritual guidance.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
9 Jul 2015 #788
Stop it now

Stop being in denial.and stonewalling and wait 10, no maybe 5 years. You'll say to yourself: how naive and foolish I was.
Unless there's some a huge backlash that breaks the back of ever-expanding "anything-goes" permissivism, nothing can be ruled out.
tictactoe
9 Jul 2015 #789
The mayor of Venice banned any books on homosexuals in school's and shops today.
Lyzko 24 | 6,792
9 Jul 2015 #790
....and good ol' (not so)"free" France continues since a few years to ban burkhas, kijaabs, crucifixes and kipas from public life. But what does it prove??
johnny reb 18 | 3,781
10 Jul 2015 #791
The mayor of Venice banned any books on homosexuals in school's and shops today.

It's a start, maybe homosexuals themselves will be next.quote by Miss Polska

@Johny: who the hell are you to decide who lives in "sin" and who does not?

A bit off-topic but since the mods left it up all day I guess it is fair game.
I didn't "decide" any such thing, the Christian faith does. May I quote what I said above.
quote by the Reb

God Almighty is the judge, not johnny reb.

quote by Miss Polska

Personally, I don't give your bible credit

Ahh isn't that what I just said ? I agree with you so why are your thongs in a knot ?quote by Miss Polska

Gays and lesbians are not interested in what you do in your bedroom so please give them a break and mind your own business.

I don't care if they choose to be sexually immoral in their bedrooms.
They will answer to God on judgement day so why would I make it my business to what a couple of homosexuals do in their bedroom. God gave them a free will to make their own choices.

They want to live in sin that's their choice.
Why would you think I am making it my business what they do ?
Lyzko 24 | 6,792
10 Jul 2015 #792
Don't forget, Johnnyboy, that the true "Christian" faith is actually Jewish in origin! And yet, I don't see Jews nearly as extreme in their castigation of sin as Christians are:-) How come? Although observant aka "religious" Jews deplore same-sex marriage, they are not the sort to preach fire-and-brimstone, fear and loathing.
Atch 17 | 2,918
10 Jul 2015 #793
Stop being in denial.and stonewalling and wait 10, no maybe 5 years. You'll say to yourself: how naive and foolish I was.

Polonius there will be no incestuous marriages or legal man/beast unions. Tell me this and tell me no more, as my dear grandmother would say, how many Catholics or Christians do you know personally, who share your views that gay marriage is the first step towards incest and bestiality? Because I'm willing to bet that it's none. Perhaps you visit some strange online communities where others hold these views, but you won't find such theories on any mainstream Catholic forum, that I am certain of.

I don't want to sound patronizing or condescending but the reason I urge you to seek help is because such views are delusional. Furthermore you have a truly staggering obsession with homosexuals which is also not normal for the average heterosexual Catholic. Because you're a Catholic and your obsession and delusions are closely woven with your faith, that's why I suggest that you talk to a priest and I recommend the Franciscans because of their compassionate and generous view of life. I think they would listen sympathetically and would help you to make sense of the weirdness that's going on in your head. Think about going on even a one day retreat with them. At least it would give the rest of us a day's respite from you and you never know you might come back a changed man!
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
10 Jul 2015 #794
here will be no incestuous marriages

You're a prophetess,a re you? Five, two, one year, no five motnhs ago mobody in his right mind thought homo marriages would be legal across the US and bingo -- one justice too many voted them in. Are you declaring to all and sundry that sexual permissivism ends in July 2015 for all time?!
Vox - | 175
12 Jul 2015 #795
youtube.com/watch?v=JiibClEZ6Fo
jon357 63 | 14,255
12 Jul 2015 #796
obsession and delusions

That's what so much of these discussions are like. Meanwhile life goes on, even though some people can't cope with the fact that people don't share their insecurity and bigotry.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
13 Jul 2015 #797
insecurity and bigotr

There is no one more inotlerant, insecure nad bigoted than the LGBT operativres depriving people of their livelihood for disagreeing with the "one, true version" of reality.
jon357 63 | 14,255
13 Jul 2015 #798
inotlerant, insecure nad bigoted than the LGBT operativres depriving people of their livelihood

Rubbish. Nobody has been 'deprived of their livelihoods' because of this issue, although the odious Jaro Kaczynski did try to exclude LGBT people from certain professions. Fortunately human rights are respected in Poland and this was struck down by Presidential veto. Even if it hadn't been, the EU would have done the job.
Polsyr 6 | 769
13 Jul 2015 #799
depriving people of their livelihood

No concrete example = didn't happen.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
13 Jul 2015 #800
deprived of their livelihoods

The US Army chaplains demoted for opposing same-sex marriage and the bakery put out of business by LGBT goons have already been reported on PF. But new reports are coming in daily of people being bullied and intimidated by LGBT operatives and their collaborators.

The Washington Times has reported a decorated combat pilot threatened with discharge for trying to prevent the filming of a disgusting scene destined to end up on social media. Lt. Col. Christopher simply pushed down the camera filming two lesbians groping and slobbering over each other on the dancefloor. The commnetary: A large percentage of homosexuals are exhibitionists, and allowing them into the military is going to result in an endless string of embarrassing incidents.

Robert P. George, a professor at Princeton University and head of the International Commission on Religious Freedom, recently reported a survey circulated to employees at JPMorgan Chase whose quesitons included: are you a member of the LGBT or an ally of the LGBT community, but not personally identifying as LGBT. Professor George concluded: "The message to all employees is perfectly clear: You are expected to fall into line with the approved and required thinking. Nothing short of assent is acceptable. Silent dissent will no longer be permitted."

Blogger and drama queen Austin Ruse called the survey an "LGBT loyalty test" and claimed that Christians are being "bullied" and "coerced" and are now in "hostile territory at work" being held captive by a "dominant sexually correct mafia."

Rod Dreher of the American Conservative went so far as to ask: "Is JPMorgan Chase saying that no traditional Christians, Orthodox Jews, or Muslims need apply?"
jon357 63 | 14,255
13 Jul 2015 #801
The US Army chaplains demoted for opposing same-sex marriage and the bakery put out of business by LGBT goons have already been reported on PF.

None of those are 'deprived of their livelihoods' - they have made a choice.

Rod Dreher of the American Conservativ

So yet another quote from a right-wing lobby group. Part of our rather long (against forum rules - ultra-conservatives only follow rules and laws if they get their own way) unattributed cut 'n paste.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
13 Jul 2015 #802
they have made a choice

In other words people have one of two choices: agree with and spout LGBT propaganda or lose their job. Is that what awaits us when the gay agenda takes over?

It was the same in PRL and Stalin's Russia. If you paid lip service to things you didn't believe it and went against your conscinece you coud get ahead. History repeats itself, I reckon, only proving the essentially totalitarian mentality of your co-ideologians.
Harry
13 Jul 2015 #803
The Washington Times has reported a decorated combat pilot threatened with discharge for trying to prevent the filming of a disgusting scene destined to end up on social media. Lt. Col.

I wonder why you failed to give that man's full name. Could it be because

While attempting to stop one member of a group of soldiers from filming the kissing at the April 2012 event held to mark their recently completed deployment, Lt. Col. Christopher P. Downey allegedly hit the soldier with his phone. He later was found guilty of assault and discrimination, in connection with the recent repeal of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. That guilty finding came in an Article 15 hearing, a commander-driven disciplinary process.

watertowndailytimes

Any chance you can tell us about any people in Poland deprived of their livelihood by "LGBT operativres"?
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
13 Jul 2015 #804
any people in Poland deprived of their livelihood

Not yet, but it's coming. Just let more creeps like BiedroĊ„ and Grodzka into power and you'll see.
jon357 63 | 14,255
13 Jul 2015 #805
The fear and hatred drips out of that post.

And meanwhile, the rest of us get on with life, Poland respects the rights of LGBT people and the bigots just show themselves up as bad losers.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
13 Jul 2015 #806
deprived of their livelihood

Christian's salary cut because he criticised gay marriage on Facebook: Punishment could cost him £60,000. Adrian Smith, 55, lost his managerial position and had salary cut by 40%

Married father-of-one's case is being supported by the Christian Institute:

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2219769/A-Christian-demoted-job-posting-opposition-gay-marriages-Facebook-taken-employer-court.html
jon357 63 | 14,255
13 Jul 2015 #807
Married father-of-one's case is being supported by the Christian Institute,

And like your other examples from right wing religious fundamentalist sources, total nonsense and nothing whatsoever to do with Poland where we respect people's rights.

As I say, fear and hatred dripping from the page.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
13 Jul 2015 #808
nothing whatsoever to do with Poland

Yet. So you admit people's rights are being vioalted if they cannot speak out on a controversial public issue without threatening theri career.
Harry
13 Jul 2015 #809
Adrian Smith

That's a very Polish name, isn't it.
jon357 63 | 14,255
13 Jul 2015 #810
Exactly. Watch how the antis try to twist things. And lose anyway. We should never forget that the same crowd never wanted it to be legal in th first place or that there are those (including in Poland) who would love to see it criminalised or at least severely restricted even now. Those denizens of the shadows who oppose equality.

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