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Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights?


InPolska 11 | 1,821
22 Jun 2015 #361
383 posts re homosexuals!!!!! Amazing! ;)

PS: I am Gosc123456. I meant to write 1 or 2 messages only but since I kind of got used to it, I have signed up;)
Levi 12 | 450
22 Jun 2015 #362
"Plenty of people exercising their right to free speech on here without 'reprisals'"

Hahahaha what a joke.

Tell that to Anna Grodzka that wants jail to anyone that says anything about gays in Poland.

Also, Everyone knows what happens when you criticize gays or muslims here in Polish Forums: you get banned, like all others were (including another profile called Levi which was not me :p )
jon357 63 | 14,255
22 Jun 2015 #363
Anna Grodzka that wants jail to anyone that says anything about gays in Poland.

Where did you get that idea from?

Everyone knows what happens when you criticize gays or muslims here in Polish Forums: you get banned

Plenty of posts, many intended to offend, that are still here and posters not banned.

In the real world though (or in Poland at least) civil rights are respected.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
22 Jun 2015 #364
Where did you get that idea from?

The headmaster of a Catholic school in Andalusia (which BTW is closer than Arzona or N. Carolina) knowing his constituency alerted a homosexual teacher that parents may cause problems if his orientatioin becomes known. No insults, not anti-homo placards, no setting fire to rainbows, just a friendly warning to be careful.

The result: the school was fined €123,000 for its alleged homophobia, a major blow to any private school in a time of economic crisis.

pl.radiovaticana.va/news/2015/06/01/hiszpania_120_tys_euro_kary_dla_katolickiej_szko%C5%82y_/1148403
jon357 63 | 14,255
22 Jun 2015 #365
How, Pol3, does that relate to the daft assertion that:

Anna Grodzka that wants jail to anyone that says anything about gays in Poland.

If anything, your quote demonstrates perfectly that people should mind their own business about people's personal lives.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
22 Jun 2015 #366
It shows that normal people are being punished even when they issue a non-antagonistic friendly warning. A non-solidary headmaster wold have kept his mouth shut and watched some burly lorry-driver dad physiclaly eject the homo teacher during a parent-teacher meeting. That way only the parent could have been charged with assault and battery. Ther headmaster only proved that trying to be the nice guy is for suckers and often backfires, as in this case.
jon357 63 | 14,255
22 Jun 2015 #367
It shows that normal people are being punished even when they issue a non-antagonistic friendly warning.

No it doesn't at all. It shows that an employer has to respect the inherent qualities of all of his or her employees.

some burly lorry-driver dad physiclaly eject the homo teacher

So you're now blaming the victim?

Ther headmaster only proved that trying to be the nice guy

I doubt that's the whole story.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
22 Jun 2015 #368
We all know that Levi lives in his own world that does not correspond to reality. When did A. Grodzka say something similar? I bet once more Levi is not going to give any source.

Although I do not know her, I saw A. Grodzka last week and believe me, she does not bother anyone, she just wants to be able to live as she pleases.

Enough with the bigots, who often have the worst behaviors, to tell people what to think, what to eat, what to wear, whom and how to f...! Why don't they worry about themselves instead of checking Inside others people's pants?
Atch 17 | 2,934
22 Jun 2015 #369
Nothing you said is relevant to the topic or Poland whatsoever.

Absolutely. And that needs to be said more often. Polonius constantly makes posts and starts threads with only the flimsiest connection to Poland in order to get up on his soap box and start preaching his personal creed.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
22 Jun 2015 #370
preaching his personal creed.

That so-called "personal creed" happens to be the official teaching of the RCC, nothing added or subtracted. In it pre- and extramarital copulaiton, sodomy, divorce. broken homes, abortions. etc. are called by their real names, not prettified euphemisms, and identified as sins.

So direct your ire at the Church itself, not one lowly member. And, if you like, you are free ot join the Church-bashers on PF. They will surely welcome the back-up.

aismChurch's Oifcicla Catechism.

So the RCC admit they don't represent 'the truth'?

Misread as usual. No, they are no longer totalitarian. The LGBTQ have taken over that slot. As an example of the long tentacles of your political slant in action, check out:

pch24.pl/amerykanscy-lewacy-chca-wsadzac-do-wiezienia-homofobow,25782,i.html
Hiding behind a euphemistically nice-sounding name Human Rights Campaign is a hate group prepared to punish all dissenters with reprisals. Anyone who disagrees with homo lifestyles or goals is stigmatised and, according to them, should be punished not only with fines but jail. One individual was actually not allowed into Canada from the US because of his views. (What other 2% majority has that much clout?!) One pro-homo activist barged into the offices of the pro-family Family Research Council in Washington, DC vowing to kill as many as he could. He wounded a security guard before being restrained. During questioning he told police he had been inspired by the pro-homo Southern Poverty Law Centre which regards anyone opposed to LGBTQ views as a Nazi and racist.

The HRC, which receives generous donations from international corporations, has an annual budget of at least $55 million.
jon357 63 | 14,255
22 Jun 2015 #371
The LGBTQ have taken over that slot.

Yet again, you can't supply anything to back up all this nonsense - just rumour, opinion and hysteria. How can a marginalised group be 'totalitarian'.

Hiding behind a euphemstically nice-sounding name Human Rights Campaign is a hate group prepared to punish all dissenters with reprisals.

Again, nothing to back that up except untruths from the internet.

And going off-topic, since Poland does guarantee all citizens (and others - even yourself) a healthy respect for human and civil rights.

This article is quite a good one. To briefly summarise for those who don't read Polish: it talks about how this issue can polarise opinion. It also says that very sadly, 12% of a large sample group questioned have been victims of violence over the past year. Some very sad case histories. It contrasts the situation in Poland with that in the UK.

Mniejszość seksualna jest w Polsce kozłem ofiarnym. To świetny sposób na polaryzowanie opinii publicznej i jednoczenie wyborców - mówi Marta Abramowicz, ekspertka ds. przeciwdziałania dyskryminacji, oceniając ostatnie wydarzenia w Gdańsku.

trojmiasto.gazeta.pl/trojmiasto/1,35636,18160686,W_Anglii_odpowiesz_za__pedala___A_u_nas__Norma.html#BoxLokTrojImg
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
22 Jun 2015 #372
How can a marginalised group be 'totalitarian'.

$$$ £££ €€€!!!
In case you weren't paying attention, I repeat: The HRC, which receives generous donations from internaitonal corporations, has an annual budget of at least $55 million.

The small pro-Family groups and publishing firms the HRC has tried to destroy financially had yearly budgets mostly well below $1 million. Does that answer your question. You and your ilk are always saying: MONEY TALKS!
jon357 63 | 14,255
22 Jun 2015 #373
The HRC, which receives generous donations from internaitonal corporations,

So organisations should only donate to causes you support?

The small pro-Family groups and publishing firms the HRC has tried to destroy financially had yearly budgets mostly well below $1 million.

You do realise that anti-LGBT groups are among the highest funded lobbyists you will find - I'm happy to supply plenty of figures.
johnny reb 18 | 3,802
22 Jun 2015 #374
There you go again. It isn't about what is 'tolerated' or 'accepted', especially thousands of miles away. That's largely an irrelevance. It is about how personal freedoms are respected under the law.

It most certainly is jon.
Gays are being tolerated especially thousands of miles away but they are not being accepted by others personal beliefs. (Thousands of miles away, boy does that ever "discredit" me......lol)

It's very relevant jon and you should learn to accept it just as that because it is what it is.
I have personal freedom of being a hetrosexual but I don't parade around demanding rights to promote
my personal beliefs that I like to plug into women. It is personal and should be kept personal.
I don't need a parade down main street with shop owners standing in their doorways and little old ladies on balconies waving their hankies in support of my personal beliefs. (Was that ever rich when you kept repeating that one...lol)

383 posts re homosexuals!!!!! Amazing! ;)

Take into consideration that over 50% of them have been made by four members.

Also, Everyone knows what happens when you criticize gays or muslims here in Polish Forums: you get banned

Is that because one of the gay members is the owner of this forum ?

If anything, your quote demonstrates perfectly that people should mind their own business about people's personal lives.

Not when their 'personal lives' are IMMORAL, against the laws of society as a whole, have an effect on our children and flat out discusting.

That is like saying that we must mind our own business if someone personal life consists of pedophilia.
No jon, you can't sugar coat sin because sin is sin.
Homosexuality is sin, pedophilia is sin, promoting sin is sin and Poland will not garentee someone the
right to sin in their society as bad as you want them to.
The devil himself is having the same problem you are having trying to convince people of the BIG LIE that if
you are not hurting anyone else then it is o.k. to do. NO, NO IT IS NOT O.K. !
Or is it guarantee.....lol
jon357 63 | 14,255
22 Jun 2015 #375
personal beliefs

That's by the by - this thread is about public policy.

sin

Is a subjective concept.

IMMORAL, against the laws of society as a whole, have an effect on our children and flat out discusting

In what way is consensual sexual relations, by people over the age of consent 'against the laws' in Poland?
Atch 17 | 2,934
22 Jun 2015 #376
hat so-called "personal creed" happens to be the official teaching of the RCC

You are absolutely and most certainly not in line with the teachings of the Church. I've quoted the Catholic Primate of Ireland on this forum before and I'll do it again as he's a senior churchman appointed by the Vatican and therefore speaks globally to all Catholics. Speaking about homosexuality he stated last month, "The church's teaching, if it isn't expressed in terms of love - then it's got it wrong," There is no love or charity towards your fellow man in your creed Polonius.

And, if you like, you are free ot join the Church-bashers on PF

I was taught to be an independent thinker. I don't see myself as part of any group and feel no need to be. If I agree with you I'll say so, equally if I disagree with you I'll say so and the same applies to those you refer to as the 'church bashers'. I disagreed with Harry about all that stuff regarding attendance at Mass. I've disagreed quite amicably with Johnny Reb on what it says in the Bible but I see his point of view and if the man is as he claims, over 80 then I think we have to allow him a bit of leeway. I wouldn't expect someone to change their views at that stage in their life. I try to be fair-minded.
Polsyr 6 | 769
22 Jun 2015 #377
the official teaching of the RCC

In case you didn't notice, the forum is about Poland and the thread is about LGBT rights in Poland. There are plenty of RC forums out there for you to breach where I am sure you will find a more pleasant audience than us, the liberal ilk.

Polsyr is right, off-topic content, not connected with Poland, will be binned
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
22 Jun 2015 #378
public policy

And public policy in Poland is governed by the constitution which legitimises only nomral opposite-gender marriage. Since the 2/3 majority needed ot change it is highly unlikely for many years to come, we can all breathe a sigh of relief at least in that area. Your buddies can rant and rave, wave their feathers, wiggle their behinds and show their makeup-smeared faces, but in Poland at least marriage will remain normal in the foreseeable future.
Polsyr 6 | 769
22 Jun 2015 #379
@Polonius3;
Regarding that 2/3 majority, until the people's representatives smarten up, the Polish State will keep losing legal challenges at the European Court of Human Rights pertaining to the right of same-sex couples (that have legally recognized marriages in other EU countries) to have their marriages recognized in Poland - together with the compensation that will have to be paid from Polish taxpayers money. If you are happy spending taxpayers money that way, well, what can I say?

You and I can speculate indefinitely about how Polish people feel about this. You know plenty that are against and I know plenty that are with. Historic patterns show that the percentage of people who are for is increasing. Look at how things changed in Ireland for example. Rest assured Poland will follow.
johnny reb 18 | 3,802
22 Jun 2015 #380
I've disagreed quite amicably with Johnny Reb on what it says in the Bible

Yet Johnny Reb has quoted scripture from the Bible proving you wrong and you have yet to quote scripture to prove him wrong.
Again, this thread has talked about gay marriage and we have clearly pointed out that marriage is between a man and woman, we have talked about what the Bible has to say about it and it says that homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, we have talked about how the gays are using their agenda to promote

homosexuality as being normal and demand to be accepted in society, we have called each other names, we have over killed the question of the thread by making our points pro and con.

It is now time to close this thread as the question has been answered to the fullest and will accomplish nothing by parroting what has already been said.

The gays made their point and got their attention and now hopefully will go back in their closet quietly.
Hopefully Poland will stand strong and say no, Hell No !
jon357 63 | 14,255
22 Jun 2015 #381
Historic patterns show that the percentage of people who are for is increasing. Look at how things changed in Ireland for example. Rest assured Poland will follow.

This is my feeling too. I suspect that in a generation or less, nobody will think twice about it.

Change is happening fast, and in the meantime, Poland protects all our rights.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
23 Jun 2015 #382
Poland although very slowly shall move ahead and follow western countries. Within maybe 20 years, Poland shall have same sex marriage and some years later, gay married couples shall be "nothing special".

Conservatives used to say same about women's, Jews', Blacks' rights and fortunately they were wrong. No one can stop it...

Only matter of time!
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
23 Jun 2015 #383
I'm happy to supply plenty of figures.

Please do. And be sure to balance it off with the bankrolling sources of pro-LGBTQ groups.

only the flimsiest connection to Poland

This has to do entirely with Poland and it comes from a well-known Polish actress:

Newsweek.pl quoted actress Joanna Szczepkowska as saying in an interview that homosexuals promote their own kind and sidestep others or throw them out of the game. "Heterosexuals do not meet up on the basis of their orientation, but homosexuals do. If you're not homosexual you won't get invited, or at least you won't get invited to certain gatherings, hence you do not belong to the inner-circle. That's the impression one gets, but you can't even ask if it's true. If you do you become a homophobe." Daily Rzeczpospolita recently reported the LGBT lobby launching an assault on school textbooks by demanding that they promote 'alternative households', with the Education Ministry succumbing to the pressure. Scholars who believe a mother, father and children constitute a family have been quietly eliminated and are no longer invited by the ministry to review textbooks.
jon357 63 | 14,255
23 Jun 2015 #384
The homophobic lobby - very well funded, especially by religious extremists and large American companies:

splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/ideology/anti-gay/the-anti-gay-movement
motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/campaign-american-values-gary-bauer-corporate-land-management
huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/27/target-homophobia-ceo-gre_n_660990.html
thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/01/11/the-christian-anti-gay-campaign.html
prospect.org/article/exporting-anti-gay-movement
salon.com/2014/03/27/hobby_lobbys_secret_agenda_how_its_secretly_funding_a_vast_right_wing_movement

Those who prefer freedom? Mostly ordinary people, paying a tenner a month out of their wages - in Poland, funding for any sort of LGBT event is always a nuisance, which is why there's so little need for lobbying. Just the voice of common sense and reason.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
23 Jun 2015 #385
All pro-homo propaganda sources reporting alleged homophobia -- extremely one-sided and partisan!. Besides, who could possibly have the time and patience to read all those links in the first place? I thought you would have the decency to list the pro-family organisations, their annual budgets and their main donors. Then list the top pro-homo groups and their budgets and donors. That way people could gain an insight into things. But it turns out that you apparently weren't interested in impartiality but prefered to represent a "hurray for our side" approach.
jon357 63 | 14,255
23 Jun 2015 #386
Besides, who could possibly have the time and patience to read all those links in the first place?

You certainly have the time to post incessantly on the topic, however I'll let that pass.

I suggest concentrating on the first link - it's interesting and neutral - from the Southern Poverty Law Center.

"hurray for our side"

Perhaps because its a. the winning side, b. far more balanced and humanistic than the extremists and c. far closer to the approach in Poland.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
23 Jun 2015 #387
splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/ideology/anti-gay/the-anti-gay-movement

I sitll couldn't find who bankrolls this group nor any pro-family group.
They are against bullying and so am I. Catholics and Poles were once bullied in the USA in the 1900s up till WW2. They were called names, taunted, beaten, stoned, etc. so they set up their own Polish Catholic school system. Maybe homos could try the same thing. As actress Szczepkowska has pointed out, they are on the clannish side and stick to their own anyway. Gay bars, gay clubs, gay parades, gay websites, magazines, etc. -- that is hardly diversity. I've never heard of a hetero pub!
jon357 63 | 14,255
23 Jun 2015 #388
I've never heard of a hetero pub!

I certainly have, however this, like most of the tosh you post on your favourite topic is very much in danger of going off topic.

The issue is whether or not rights are respected in Poland. Yes, they are and the trend is that respect for LGBT rights is getting stronger all the time. No matter how hot and bothered that makes bigots feel.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
23 Jun 2015 #389
winning side

Don't be too hasty! Everything is time-restricted. What seeemed to be the launch of the 1000-year Reich (Godwin's law, is it?) lasted all of 12 years. In general, movements, trends, poltical formations are highly impermanent. Nothing just keeps growing indefinitely, neither the eocnomxy, or someone's private assets, or some organisation. So imagining that depravity of the type fostered by LGBTQ will constantly keep expanding is ahisotricla and rather naive. Eventually, there is always a backlash, diversion or collapse along the way.

The most permanent things have been religions (eg Juadaeo-Christianity), next countries, far less stable are political groups and the least permanent of all are trends and fashions.
Polsyr 6 | 769
23 Jun 2015 #390
No matter how hot and bothered that makes bigots feel

The problem is that it is making them feel hot and bothered.

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