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Coronavirus in Poland


mafketis 24 | 9,374
12 Jun 2020 #2,461
any more news about the possible TB vaccination link?

AFAICT it's mostly anecdotal (and generally pooh-poohed by the WHO which has very little credibility anymore...) and the jury is out with other people... But.... Italy (the hardest hit country in the EU) was about the only EU country to never really use it... other countries seem to be hit and miss. It was obligatory in the old USSR but I suspect a lot of the became spotty and stopped after the fall of that country

I'm really trying to think of other reasons for Poland not getting hit worse than it has which quickly leads me to weird and/or dangerous places... does biological diversity on the ground make all local populations.... weaker? A lot of the worst hit places rely on foreign born medical personnel, especially with elderly people (so does Poland but more from Ukraine which is not halfway across the world). Coincidence? I'm sure _nobody_ wants to look at that more closely... I'm not sure I do...
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,721
12 Jun 2020 #2,462
I'm really trying to think of other reasons for Poland not getting hit worse than it has

It has everything to do with Polish peoples' beliefs, nuances, etc. Quite simply, Poles tend to be very concerned with cleanliness, hygiene and many are germaphobes.
mafketis 24 | 9,374
12 Jun 2020 #2,463
Poles tend to be very concerned with cleanliness, hygiene

True but so are the Dutch and the Netherlands was _much_ harder hit...
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,632
12 Jun 2020 #2,464
....and Germans have this "dark matter"! :)

theguardian.com/world/2020/may/31/covid-19-expert-karl-friston-germany-may-have-more-immunological-dark-matter
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
12 Jun 2020 #2,465
does biological diversity on the ground make all local populations.... weaker?

IMO, it's worth testing any and all hypotheses in this matter, no matter how insane they sound.

I'm really trying to think of other reasons for Poland not getting hit worse than it has

One possible example: it hit after Christmas but before Easter, so it avoided the 'large gatherings of people' situation. One question will be as to what happens with the wedding season - if people start travelling and meeting in huge groups, it's possible that it'll come back with a vengeance.

I think one other possible reason is simply that people don't mix that much. Visiting people seems to be much more an...event here, whereas I'll often just go visit friends with beer without any formality or occasion.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,632
13 Jun 2020 #2,466
Sweden and Poland are the only two European countries that have NOT passed their coronavirus peak

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8415153/Sweden-Poland-two-European-countries-NOT-passed-coronavirus-peak.html

The ECDC reported that every other European country have passed their peaks

Sweden and Poland's 14-day incidence rate is at the highest it has ever been

Sweden's infections after April 23 make up six per cent of 31 countries' cases

Poland has seen a rapid increase in cases since clusters were reported in mines


Poland in the same sentence as ever rising Sweden? How come?

....To date, Poland has 28,577 confirmed cases with 1,222 deaths surpassed by Sweden's 49,684 confirmed cases and 4,854 deaths....
PolAmKrakow 1 | 590
13 Jun 2020 #2,467
Its the daily mail and nothing but sensationalism from them can be counted on.
Atch 17 | 3,427
13 Jun 2020 #2,468
But the facts are correct. Only Sweden and Poland haven't peaked yet. Poland is by no means out of the woods. I think you'll see constant waves of infection, new workplace clusters (there have been plenty of those, not just in the mines). It's only logical if you look at the graphs for Poland. There is no real decline in infections. It seems to have stabilized for the time being at a certain number of new cases and continuing deaths but it may get more intense as restrictions are lifted further and people ignore the hygiene and safety rules. A family member is off to Zakopane soon and I was reading that over the Corpus Christi weekend, thousands of visitors arrived in the town and face masks were nowhere to be seen. One local woman was expressing concern but she said a shop owner told her it's not just the visitors, his regular customers aren't wearing masks either but he serves them anyway because he needs the business. I would say the future is uncertain for Poland.
mafketis 24 | 9,374
13 Jun 2020 #2,469
There is no real decline in infections

Infection rates are always a function of testing - and most testing reveals non-medical infection (that is infection that doesn't require any medical intervention).

The more you test the more infections you find. That doesn't say much about how many cases need medical care.
Spike31 2 | 2,109
13 Jun 2020 #2,470
Infection rates are always a function of testing




Miloslaw 8 | 3,196
13 Jun 2020 #2,471
face masks were nowhere to be seen

These have been way over played.
They offer no protection to the user, only to other people if the user is infected.
That discredited organization the WHO at first did not recommend their use and has now changed their advice.
You can take from that what you will.
kondzior 12 | 1,200
13 Jun 2020 #2,472
The Corona Vaccine is Planned Population Reduction

lbry.tv/@JohnThor:0/Heavily...mDpTOfeNDkHav7FBouwg7rXEYhnyBbU1okThXFowMw9-8

61 out of 63 females GSK tested became infertile after receiving the Coronavirus vaccine, which contains an anti -HCG antigen. Males experienced drops in testosterone levels and GHRG hormone (shrunken testicles)
PolAmKrakow 1 | 590
13 Jun 2020 #2,473
@kondzior
LMAO more global conspiracy theories. Exactly what everyone needs. UFO's are now also being sighted in Poland and not just the United States too. The New World Order initiated the riots around the world to distract everyone from the spread of COVID-19 in the hope that the virus spreads among demonstrators so they die and we can get better control over the sheep (masses of people following this bs).
kondzior 12 | 1,200
13 Jun 2020 #2,474
LMAO more global conspiracy theories.

No, it is true, or at least plausible, here you have the proper link, in the previous post it got messed up:
lbry.tv/@JohnThor:0/Heavily-Censored-Video---The-Corona-Vaccine-is-Planned-Population-Reduction:4?fbclid=IwAR1L2ppvz0plw0mDpTOfeNDkHav7FBouwg7rXEYhnyBbU1okThXFowMw9-8
Atch 17 | 3,427
13 Jun 2020 #2,475
They offer no protection to the user, only to other people if the user is infected.

Exactly. They can potentially help to control the spread of the virus and protect the vulnerable. The evidence for their effectiveness is not really firmly established yet and they may be of little use but it's a point of principle and a question of attitude. When people are not bothering to wear them despite the fact that it's mandatory, what does that tell you? When people are wearing them hanging round their chins instead of covering their nose and mouth, what does that tell you? When people don't maintain distance from others where possible, what does that tell you?

Infection rates are always a function of testing

Agree.

most testing reveals non-medical infection

Also agree.

A very good indicator is the percentage of positive results being obtained. As you increase testing to include those who don't show any symptoms, the positive percentage of test results drops, so you get a more realistic picture of the rate of infection.

Btw the latest figures for Poland show 440 new cases and 15 deaths.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,632
13 Jun 2020 #2,476
The more you test the more infections you find.

So? Poland and Sweden just test more than every other country? Or what?
johnny reb 28 | 5,306
13 Jun 2020 #2,477
Poland reopened borders with all EU neighbors today.
Under Poland's new measures, citizens of non EU members Russia, Belarus and Ukraine are allowed to enter Poland if they are the spouse or child of a Polish citizen or have a work permit for the country.

Workers from these countries will not need to complete a 14-day quarantine on arrival.
mafketis 24 | 9,374
13 Jun 2020 #2,478
Another day in the loooong weekend and again no 18.00 update?

Fatalities (daily total) 15 (average age 75)

Hospitalizations (running total) 1711 an increase of 11 from two days ago and and 82 from yesterday when it had fallen to 1629

Cured (daily total) 299
johnny reb 28 | 5,306
13 Jun 2020 #2,479
Poland is lucky as one little county (Wayne) alone in Michigan has had over 20,000 cases.
After 2,000 deaths they quit posting them.
Atch 17 | 3,427
13 Jun 2020 #2,480
Does Ireland have dedicated units or are all hospitals expected to deal with it?

Sorry Maf, forgot to answer your question. Cases are dealt with in all hospitals.

again no 18.00 update

Is it perhaps a way of making the numbers look a bit better?
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,632
13 Jun 2020 #2,481
Covid-19: France, Italy, Germany and Netherlands sign vaccine deal

france24.com/en/20200613-covid-19-france-italy-germany-and-netherlands-sign-vaccine-deal

Pharma giant AstraZeneca struck a deal Saturday with Europe's Inclusive Vaccines Alliance to supply up to 400 million doses of an experimental Covid-19 vaccine, as efforts to boost manufacturing capacity continue at pace.

The alliance, which was forged by Germany, France, Italy and the Netherlands to speed up production of a vaccine, is set to take delivery of the vaccine being tested by the University of Oxford by the end of 2020. The agreement with AstraZeneca also aims to make the vaccine available to other European countries that wish to take part.

The cost is expected to be offset by funding from the governments.....


Will Poland take part?

...The Anglo-Swedish company recently completed similar agreements with Britain, the United States the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations, and Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance for 700 million doses. A license also has been agreed with the Serum Institute of India for another 1 billion doses.

China, Brazil, Japan and Russia have also expressed interest, Soriot said....

mafketis 24 | 9,374
13 Jun 2020 #2,482
Is it perhaps a way of making the numbers look a bit better?

I don't know how that would work... the hospitalization rates had only been given once a day (in the morning) and today's 15 fatalities are maybe higher than they might have been (since it covered a longer period (presumably it would have been updated yesterday at 18.00)

We'll see how the updates go after the loooong weekend.

Again I think hospitalizations is the best number to track in Poland since so many of the 'new' cases are probably 'old' mild cases that are being discovered because of targeted testing. The media is trying to be alarmist about the discovery of mild cases but....

And hospitalizations are definitely down (around 1700 for the last three days down from around 2200 from when I started keeping track)

On masks... definitely a major drag in this new weather.... I went to starocie today and they had guys around the edges reminding people to wear them and had set up hand sanitizer for those who wanted it.
Spike31 2 | 2,109
13 Jun 2020 #2,483
Piotrkowska Off Center, Lodz, Poland, June 2020.

Like I've always believed Poles called the coronaflu bullshit



mafketis 24 | 9,374
13 Jun 2020 #2,484
coronaflu bullshit

It's not bullshit, it's very deadly to some people...

Those who claim the whole thing is made up are just as wrong as those who are still holding on to early March levels of panic...

It's a weird virus that doesn't bother most people but it seems that it can get toehold (as it were) in a person (mostly those with certain conditions) it can really be dangerous.
Spike31 2 | 2,109
14 Jun 2020 #2,485
Those who claim the whole thing is made up are just as wrong

I'm not saying that the coronvirus doesn't exist. Just like I'm not denying the existence of influeza, which may be particularly dangerous for the old people. Flu is with us since the dawn of civilization (there historical records of flu infections since ancient Rome and even ancient China) and kills 300 000 - 600 000 people anually.

Soon the society wil get used to chinese flu and no one is going to submit to moronic quarantine measures. And hypochondriacs can stay in their flats wearing dusk masks for another decade...

Soon wearing a dusk mask is going to be a sign of an idiot.
Tacitus 2 | 1,229
14 Jun 2020 #2,486
Good thing most people are not that blind towards the danger of Corona.... .
Spike31 2 | 2,109
14 Jun 2020 #2,487
The biggest danger of corona is not related to health but to a "new normality" agenda which is being pushed on a society.

For Germans it may not mean much since your social dymamics are different than ours and your tolerance for state control of your lives is much higher. Poles who love freedom would suffocate in that "new normality".

It seems that Poles has chosen a good old-fashioned normality instead.
jon357 66 | 17,040
14 Jun 2020 #2,488
Good thing most people are not that blind towards the danger of Corona.... .

Exactly. Nor are the scientists, the public health advisors and society as a whole.
mafketis 24 | 9,374
14 Jun 2020 #2,489
Today's numbers during the looooong weekend are from this morning... I'm not sure if they'll go back to the 18.00 udpate or not.

anyhoo....

Fatalities (daily total) 10, average age 71, a bit younger than usual due to two younger than average fatalities at 40 and 44, we're told they had co-morbidities but unhelpfully not told what those are (and they could be anything from stage 4 lung cancer to being about 5 kilos overweight, so.... thanks for the clarity!)

Hospitalization (running total) a very slight bump of 37 more cases to 1748.

Cured (daily total) 122

So the fatality rate over the last week has been averaged to 13 a day and the hospitalization rate has fallen from an average around 2000 to an average of 1700.

It looks like we're past the peak in the statistics that matter though testing is still revealing lots of existing mild cases...
Atch 17 | 3,427
14 Jun 2020 #2,490
Here's a useful diagram. A graph of the deaths showing 3 day and 7 day moving averages. The moving average takes account of the lag in reporting deaths that can occur due to logistics etc. I compared it with Ireland's and it's really fascinating to see the difference. There has been no obvious peak in Poland so it's quite likely that the graph will continue to look the same for some time to come.







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