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Coronavirus in Poland


PolAmKrakow 1 | 434
1 May 2020 #1,891
A unique idea would be to not send help abroad until Poland gets its own $**t together with testing, and providing proper compensation and tools to medical staff. I know, I know, it is just a crazy idea. To think PiS would give up an opportunity to do the right thing instead of bragging to the Pope about how much help they have given others. Maybe TVP will give some money back to finance the health care professionals? Thoughts?
Cargo pants 2 | 476
1 May 2020 #1,892
not send help abroad

I still wonder if it is legal to send masks overseas for personal use,I want to send some to wife and kids as they have very limited supply,while here in Poland its easy to buy.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 434
1 May 2020 #1,893
@Cargo pants

I would look on Amazon or Ebay and just order and ship. Probably easier and faster that way. I just shipped a package and it took 14 days.
Cargo pants 2 | 476
1 May 2020 #1,894
They did themselves,but been over 25 days,so I thought I could DHL or UPS,but there site says shipping PPE outside the EU is illegal and I dont want to lie and be caught.Packages wife sends I get in 3/4 working days.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 434
1 May 2020 #1,895
My Amazon account uses my USA address, ships within USA no problem and its not a lie if you use that address.
Spike31 3 | 1,637
4 May 2020 #1,896
So this is how Barcelona looks like right now. Yes, a country which got "hit the worst in Europe" by Chinese boo boo

I'm going to make fun of all Coronavirus Cultist for the rest of the year, or until I get bored :-)

You know who you are. Your posts are out there on this thread. I hope you've learned something and won't be played like a russian balalaika again (slim chance).



Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,590
4 May 2020 #1,897
It's from the "Welt" article, isn't it? :)

Well there it's written that most people try to keep the distance and most still wear masks....and in Spain the infection count is sinking (-56%), so they ended the lockdown.

I don't know what you are so gleeful about, that people try to survive? That people DID survive because of the safety measures?
Spike31 3 | 1,637
4 May 2020 #1,898
Yes, I can see that most of them are still wearing masks and are keeping the distance between each other :-). I do not criticize them, mind that, they're just normal people who are no longer terrorized by mass media bulshit.

Didn't Angel Merkel mention that 2/3 of German population will get coronavirus?

Around 950 000 Germans die anually (destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Population/Deaths-Life-Expectancy/_node.html).

So according to that theory ~617 000 (66% of 950 000) would contact coronavirus and have covid antibodies. Technically speaking all of them could be counted as "coronavirus victims", just like they did in Lombardy with quick virus antibody screning. Take the old people who died of an old age and count them as coronavirus victims.

Then send the statistics to "live corpses online" (worldometers.info/coronavirus/) to get the masses scared and excited. You can easily create another coronavirus pandemia if you want. And that would be that famous Second Wave.
Chemikiem 6 | 2,157
4 May 2020 #1,899
I'm going to make fun of all Coronavirus Cultist

So what do you think should have been done then Dr Spike? Have no safety measures in place and let everything carry on as normal so the death toll for each country was even higher? Do you want the health services of each country completely overwhelmed so hospitals can't treat any patients?

this is how Barcelona looks like right now. Yes, a country which got "hit the worst in Europe"

I'm sure that the authorities will be closely monitoring the situation because no country will want a second wave of new infections. I'm sure every country easing lockdowns will be doing the same.

I get that in some countries the measures might seem unnecessary. I think it's a bit late in the day for Poland to be telling everyone to wear face masks for example.

The UK is still debating that one, probably because they don't have enough masks for those on the front line, let alone the general public.

The fact is Spike, a lot of people are dying, and these measures are in place to prevent more deaths.

I'm at a loss as to why you seem to find the situation amusing tbh. In the UK ever increasing numbers of front line workers are dying, more than likely as a direct consequence of not having the right PPE. I find it quite unbelievable that every day government ministers applaud our NHS 'heroes', while making excuse after excuse for not supplying them with the proper PPE.I feel they are being treated as the modern day equivalent of cannon fodder. Frankly, the way that the UK government has dealt with this, is nothing less than a sh!tshow.

they're just normal people who are no longer terrorized by mass media bulshit.

Some of the reporting I admit, has been way over the top. I don't know so much about people being terrorized. I think most people are being respectful and keeping their distance because no-one knows who may be a carrier. Common sense really.
kondzior 10 | 1,021
4 May 2020 #1,900
Just after USA relaxed its lock down, daily deaths have shot up to just over 2900.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 434
4 May 2020 #1,901
@kondzior

USA did not relax its lockdown. Each state controls its lockdown. There were just over 1100 deaths yesterday. So maybe less disinformation and panic spreading as Poland eases controls. None of it is warranted anymore.
kondzior 10 | 1,021
4 May 2020 #1,902
@PolAmKrakow
But this report came from the WHO...
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8282167/US-deadliest-24-hours-lockdown-restrictions-ease-America.html
PolAmKrakow 1 | 434
4 May 2020 #1,903
@kondzior

That looks like the Daily Mail, and its not a direct link to the WHO. "between Thursday and 4am on Friday" is the calculation time, the whole day on Thursday, and through 4 am on Friday, just when more information is tabulated from the west coast after you look at the time zones. This is creative math at best designed to create more fear. Meanwhile actually daily numbers in USA are declining, in Poland they are declining and the ministry of health has said publicly that lateral COVID infections are virtually non existent, but they are happening in clusters in closed locations. The only countries experiencing increases are those in the southern hemisphere and those that failed to prepare when they had plenty of time to do so. Anyone trusting what the WHO says at this point anyway needs to talk to a professional.
kondzior 10 | 1,021
4 May 2020 #1,904
Well, yeah. Sweden has proven that the plague seeding your country immediately sh!ts all over your economy whether you lock down or not. Usa's save the economy spiel is completely wrong headed and they should have performed a proper shut down from the start instead of swaying to and fro, unable to make up their minds.
cms neuf - | 1,589
4 May 2020 #1,905
How does Sweden prove that? - their figures are where they have always been - not the best but far from the worst and without a lockdown, that is without a lot of the economic damage.

Of course they will suffer from a global downturn especially as they have a lot of high end exports but that is nothing they can control. On the bits of the economy that they can control they should recover much quicker
Spike31 3 | 1,637
4 May 2020 #1,906
So what do you think should have been done then Dr Spike?

It should have been done the same as Sweden did - business as usual in face of a new variation of a flu. And they even got praised for it by pencil pushers from WHO recently

I'm at a loss as to why you seem to find the situation amusing tbh

People's reaction to this "pandemia" is amusing. The faith that dust mask will stop the virus is amusing. Believing that we "save lives" by sitting on our asses locked down in our houses is amusing.

OK, all of that is sad if you think about it but the fact that the masses are thinking that it was done for their own good is still amusing.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 434
4 May 2020 #1,907
@kondzior

This is what people dont understand about the USA. The USA can not order a shut down. Each state is in control of its state borders. The mistake was not a lack of a shut down, the mistake was telling everyone to return. Filling airports, planes and then their home countries with infected people. Look at every major outbreak city. NY, NJ, Detroit, Seattle, LA, Chicago and Atlanta. All the major airport hubs. Thats what caused this mess. Same in Poland, Warsaw, the most effected, Wroclaw next on the German border with all the commuters.

The global economy has not seen the worst of this yet. Every day that passes with a partial shut down takes three days to begin recovery from it. So, based on that, recovery in Poland is about to start in November. Small business is the key to every successful economy and the knee jerk reaction to slam all doors shut was devastating. The longer this goes on, the more business fold. Look for another mass exodus of Poles who need to find higher paying jobs now that their small business has failed. Deals already on used cars from the banks. People selling their high priced designer items on the internet already.

This is not rocket science to figure out. The math is easy to see on a map.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,590
4 May 2020 #1,908
Didn't Angel Merkel mention that 2/3 of German population will get coronavirus?

Without safety measures surely....and about 1 million of them would had died (maybe even more), if not of the virus itself then because of lack of medical help as our health care system wouldn't had been able to help many of them, totally overwhelmed by so many sick people at once!

It might even come to that that after a year or two really 2/3 of the german population will have had the virus, but these sick people will now have much better chances of survival as everybody will get treatment...and then there will be a vaccine and later even a cure...

I'm really glad no Dr. Spike had had a say in the german gov in these times (even as I'm surely not a Merkel fan:)
Spike31 3 | 1,637
5 May 2020 #1,909
totally overwhelmed by so many sick people at once!

It wouldn't be if only those who had sysmptoms would be treated in hospitals. Not taken in en masse just beause they've tested positive for antibodies like in Italy.

I'm really glad no Dr. Spike

I don't have to be a medicine doctor to draw my own conclussions based on logic and publicly available stats, which which most people don't bother because they prefer easily digestable chunks of sensational info delivered to them by mass media.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,590
5 May 2020 #1,910
I don't have to be a medicine doctor to draw my own conclussions based on logic

You mean everybody else is unable to.....

REALLY???? ;)
PolAmKrakow 1 | 434
5 May 2020 #1,911
@Spike31 "I don't have to be a medicine doctor to draw my own conclussions ..."

100% agree. Intelligent human beings know how and when to be careful. All part of natural selection. Yes, people will die. People die every day. Morons who dont take precaution can play russian roulette with their health. Smart people can wear masks on public transport and in crowded spaces. They can also take them off in the park when not near anyone else. Clearly not transmissions coming from people sitting on park benches reading books.
Atch 17 | 3,224
5 May 2020 #1,912
publicly available stats,

You have to beware of stats because the methods of gathering them vary from country to country, therefore a direct comparision between countries is almost impossible and comparisons with the flu are also not really possible. It will be a long time before a really comprehensive and informative analysis can be carried out and a real conclusion drawn about Covid-19.

if only those who had sysmptoms would be treated in hospitals.

I presume by that you mean severe symptoms. That would be around 20% of those who contract the illness, of which 6% will require intensive care. Bearing in mind that there was no immunity to Covid-19 among the general population at the beginning of the outbreak and bearing in mind the fact that it's highly contagious, governements were logically concluding that more than half the population were likely to be affected. So let's take Poland. Population 40 million. Half get the virus, that's 20 million. 20% of that 20 million ie 4 million need to go to hospital within a period of a few weeks and 6% of 20 million ie 200,000 need to be in an intensive care unit. Logical conclusion: overwhelmed healthcare system and lots of dead people.

They can also take them off in the park when not near anyone else.

Totally agree with that and to be honest, ill-fitting cloth masks strung round your face on a bit of elastic are probably precious little use on public transport, and that's what most people are wearing.
Chemikiem 6 | 2,157
5 May 2020 #1,913
It should have been done the same as Sweden did - business as usual in face of a new variation of a flu.

Maybe if Sweden had imposed a lockdown they would have had less deaths and cases than they have. Look at neighbouring Denmark, Norway and Finland, far less deaths and cases than Sweden. Plus it's not over yet.

Believing that we "save lives" by sitting on our asses locked down in our houses is amusing.

You can believe what you want Spike, but you sound like a bit of a muppet tbh. The point is to try and limit the spread so as to not overwhelm the health services, and keep the number of deaths as low as possible.

Of course the lockdown cannot go on indefinitely, but it makes sense to get the number of deaths and new cases as low as possible first.

Intelligent human beings know how and when to be careful.

You are making the presumption that everyone else will behave in an intelligent manner. We've had people arrested over here for spitting on health workers and police after saying they have been infected by the virus. Loads of people travelling to tourist destinations while on lockdown for example. I was in a chemists yesterday when the police turned up to remove 3 guys who refused to observe social distancing, were annoying customers, and were deliberately picking up products and putting them down again. It is morons like that who are putting people at risk, because don't forget, not everyone will wear a face mask. As yet, they are not compulsory here.
kondzior 10 | 1,021
5 May 2020 #1,914
Maybe if Sweden had imposed a lockdown

Three out of four Swedes want to see tougher measures against Corona from the Government.
friatider.se/tre-av-fyra-svenskar-vill-se-tuffare-atgarder-mot-corona
PolAmKrakow 1 | 434
5 May 2020 #1,915
I think most here make some sensible arguments on both sides. I think most here would agree though that this continued lockdown and restrictions for the most part is going beyond the time frame required now.

I just read a report that Europe in general will see 70 to 80% of all tourism revenue disappear. Countries are racing for tourism and travel agencies to fold up almost completely. Hotels at half capacity, flights with missing seats for social distancing, and a whole host of other items that most people are not thinking about will absolutely decimate the economies of Europe.

While all the data regarding infection rates, deaths, and percentages of hospitalizations are not in yet, the data on job loss keeps coming in. The data on inflation keeps coming in. What happens when governments cant collect taxes because people arent working? Not only does the economy regress, but social welfare programs cost more. I wonder how Poland pays for all of this after all this business is simply gone. You cant collect taxes, ZUS, or any other revenue from companies that dont exist and people who are unemployed. And still paying for 500 plus, and 500 to farmers for each cow? Something will break in a very big way.
Chemikiem 6 | 2,157
5 May 2020 #1,916
Three out of four Swedes want to see tougher measures against Corona from the Government.

I think there is a fair bit of anger from what I have read. About half the number of deaths in Sweden have been in care homes, and many feel that the elderly are paying the price for the government's stance on this.
mafketis 23 | 8,404
5 May 2020 #1,917
bearing in mind the fact that it's highly contagious

Is it? None of the studies I've seen suggest that... most indicate it isn't especially contagious and requires longer than average close contact in non-moving air. Almost all of the real research (as opposed to alarmist media clickbait) confirms that this isn't that scary a disease in the short term (except for high risk groups which need better protection - something nowhere is doing a good job with).

at would be around 20% of those who contract the illness, of which 6% will require intensive care

How up to date is this, it's my impression that early on they assumed ventilators would be critical but much better and effective protocols have since been worked out. Ventilators often do more harm than good and are mostly now reserved for when there's nothing to lose....

Interesting vid the other day from a doctor in NYC who was in the early front lines when he realized that the ventilator protocol wasn't optimal and based on a misunderstanding of the virus as being like pneumonia - when it's actually much more like extreme altitude sickness (increasing oxygen deprivation).

The lockdown was never meant (or never should have been meant) as anything but a stopgap measure to buy time - and now that we have some time there's a much better (though still evolving) understanding of the disease and the lockdown will probably end up costing more lives than the disease if it's continued.

. About half the number of deaths in Sweden have been in care homes

That's everywhere. In Spain it was apparently about two thirds of fatalities. Clearly the vulnerable in those situations need much better care but... locking down everyone else isn't going to do that.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 434
5 May 2020 #1,918
@mafketis

You make some great points. Now in NYC they are using "proning", the simple process of flipping patients on their stomachs to let gravity take pressure off the diaphram making it easier for patients to breath. No ventilators being used unless its last resort now. My sister is an ER Doc in NYC who was telling me how simple it is, and that the process has been used for other lung related disease treatment.
cms neuf - | 1,589
5 May 2020 #1,919
So a big change in atmosphere yesterday - for the first time in 2 months there was something like an evening rush at 16.00, about 60% of what it normally is. Malls had 90 percent of their normal traffic. One of my sons preschools say we can go back next week if we want (private one - the other kids are in public and still no word on that).

I have a lot more work too - not just bullsh*t video conferences but proper things to do as we start to get ready.

Lets keep our fingers crossed and hope that no new spikes from this but it feels good to be back in business.
Spike31 3 | 1,637
5 May 2020 #1,920
The point is to try and limit the spread so as to not overwhelm the health service.

Yes, I know what's the official government stand on this subject, thank you. It's interesting to know that in trying times most of you will accept the government narrative without questioning it.

My questions are: does Sweden have overwhelmed health service?

How come Sweden is being praised, more than any other countries by, WHO for their approach to handling Chinese flu?

All it needs is one "disobiedient" country - Sweden - to show the rest how false the official narrative is.


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