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Coronavirus in Poland


PolAmKrakow 1 | 433
23 Apr 2020 #1,681
@cms neuf

The ministry said yesterday, that infections are largely limited to closed environments now. The masks, in shopping centers and these places, no problem for a bit longer. But as the numbers continue to drop, and we have seen no major spike since Easter that everyone was so worried about, then things should continue to return to normal. You cant keep business closed forever. You cant protect everyone. Everyone will eventually get this. The curve is flat and descending now. IF it spike in an area, then quarantine the area. Keeping these restrictions in areas with little to no infections because some place 200 km away has infections, is simply bad policy and worse crisis management.
Crow 139 | 8,583
23 Apr 2020 #1,682
by texting a picture of said crime to the special number set up by the authorities.

Horrible. They now only need to introduce comrade commissar to the people. Or inquisition. Or no, considering we speak of hijab era. Better some grand mufti to hunt down violators.

To put cross on myself, my grandmother would say, these are last days.
mafketis 23 | 8,381
23 Apr 2020 #1,683
f the Polish health minister in February that wearing a mask is useles

Well back in February he may have been under the influence of the Chinese puppet WHO... since then (thanks to Chinese paranoia and secrecy) very little was known and the rest of the world had to figure out things in a hurry without any help from the epicenter or the international organization that's supposed to help in situations like this.

In such a situation knowledge will change as more becomes known. Deciding something has to be the case because of something said two months ago is not useful.

Early on it seemed that respirators would be needed but as it's turned out they're mostly not needed and may in fact do more harm than good.

Early on it seemed maybe it was super-contagious (erring on the side of caution is always a good idea in such a situation) but now it seems to not be especially contagious except in closed environments.

There's a lot that's not yet known and it will be necessary to modify policy as more does become known.

At present the rate of infection is clearly slowing down in Poland with numbers being pushed up a bit by care homes - one researcher found it doesn't really spread in fresh air (how much is this made worse by traditional Polish paranoia about przecińÖgi ?)

Where I am most people are wearing masks though some kind of pull them down past the nose (dumb) and some pull them down so they can feed their oral fixation by smoking but there's a lot more compliance than not.

they haven't announced a continuation of the school lockdown so I'm working under the assumption that schools will reopen next week.

The plain fact is that if the economy doesn't get back into gear (and soon) then things will get very bad very quickly (and economically it will make a depression seem like a walk in the park).

If the Polish government had any foresight it would shore up the medical system by pumping money and resources into it and work on protocols and equipment for a possible second wave after the summer... but it's probably not going to do that because PiS is all about patronage and doctors and nurses aren't an important voting bloc....
Crow 139 | 8,583
23 Apr 2020 #1,684
Show respect to Svetovid and have real mask. Refuse hijab. Masks used in Serbian old-Slavic (ie Sarmatian) koledo rituals >

s

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delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
23 Apr 2020 #1,685
they haven't announced a continuation of the school lockdown

Already announced - 3rd May is the latest date, though it's been reported that there's no chance of it happening before mid-May. I'd place bets on the start of June, so they can get the exams out the way at the end of June/beginning of July.

The universities have been behaving like dickheads though - normally I'd support their autonomy to death, but it seems that they've kicked up a hell of a fuss about the Matura and demanding that it gets based on a written exam for the purposes of university entry. I can't agree with it in these circumstances - it would be better to simply accept that for one year, the school grades up until March would count.

There's a lot that's not yet known

It's what makes it so dangerous, IMO. I was reading some scientific stuff last night, and it's staggering as to the way that they simply don't know why it's so vicious in some areas and not in others. Some of the things listed like large families in a house also applies to the CEE region, so...what's going on?
johnny reb 23 | 4,497
23 Apr 2020 #1,686
my grandmother would say, these are last days.

Your grandmother was a very wise woman Crow who I give much admiration to.
And look at you, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

it will make a depression seem like a walk in the park).

The Depression that will follow is inevitable as it is already past the point of return.
Just watch the hyperinflation on all necessities.

...what's going on?

Never let a catastrophe go to waste....our governments are going to milk this for their benefit all they can.
Always follow the money......banks handling the government's $349 billion loan program for small businesses made more than $10 billion in fees......even as tens of thousands of small businesses were shut out of the program.

INDEPENDENCE CRIMINALIZED !
mafketis 23 | 8,381
23 Apr 2020 #1,687
they simply don't know why it's so vicious in some areas and not in others.... so...what's going on?

well people ***-*** the BCG vaccination theory but some of the worst countries hit have been non-vaccinating countries... (Italy in the EU and Ecuador in South America)...

I can't get away from the idea that the different strains have extremely different fatality rates... and maybe.... once one strain gets established it kicks out others? Does that makes sense? I also think incubation time could be an issue it was probably spread deeply in Lombardy by the time people started getting sick and dying (again the center of Chinese settlement in Italy).

it's been reported that there's no chance of it happening before mid-May

Makes no sense... children get the virus only very rarely and then it's almost always extremely mild and they don't even seem to transmit it (in one study an infected child didn't pass it on even to very vulnerable people it came into contact with).

And remote teaching doesn't work for warm spit...
Paulwiz 1 | 70
23 Apr 2020 #1,688
@mafketis

once one strain gets established it kicks out others?

My theory as well. A long time ago people realized that a person who had Cow Pox and recovered (developed the antibodies) would not get Small Pox.

Now scientific approach is to develop a vaccine for parts of the virus like the spike proteins. As such any virus that had the same spike protein would be rendered ineffective.

A common theory in the US is that the West coast had the bug quite a while ago but it was not as lethal. And now there is herd immunity from the more lethal strain on the East coast. Hard to explain the huge disparity in death rates without some such theory.
johnny reb 23 | 4,497
23 Apr 2020 #1,689
And now there is herd immunity from the more lethal strain on the East coast.

Maybe it is mutating and we eventually are all going to die from it.
The mind blowing part to me is why the WHO and China are still being so secretive and not working with the rest of the world.

Secretary of State Pompeo has accused China of not allowing American scientists to visit the country and investigate the origins of the coronavirus outbreak, delivering yet another attack on Beijing's handling of the crisis.

It is now believed that China's statistics are four times higher, a least, then what they are reporting.
mafketis 23 | 8,381
23 Apr 2020 #1,690
It is now believed that China's statistics are four times higher, a least,

A person who studied cremation rates in Wuhan estimates 16 times higher rate than reported there....
Paulwiz 1 | 70
23 Apr 2020 #1,691
@johnny reb

Maybe it is mutating and we eventually are all going to die from it.

One can only guess, but I read a few days ago that viruses usually mutate to less lethal forms. Partially makes sense I guess as it would be harder to reproduce if it killed all the hosts. But that sounds only partially plausible to me.

As to China, I love conspiracy theories so don't encourage me. Hard enough to restrain myself as it is.
cms neuf - | 1,588
23 Apr 2020 #1,692
What do you expect China to do ? It is about as likely to say sorry and pay any compensation as the US is for Iraq (or for poisoning native Americans).
johnny reb 23 | 4,497
23 Apr 2020 #1,693
We only did that after the scalped our women and children alive.
cms neuf - | 1,588
23 Apr 2020 #1,694
No that's not right - many were massacred with no provocation - but anyway this is a Polish thread.

Car parks are getting more full and I saw he first kind of pub today - a table outside a kebab shop with two guys sitting having a cold beer in the sun.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 433
23 Apr 2020 #1,695
@cms neuf

People been sunning and drinking in our little planty for the last week or two. No one worried about police.
mafketis 23 | 8,381
23 Apr 2020 #1,696
What do you expect China to do ?

Not punish doctors who are trying to bring information to the public? Not stonewall the international community with lies and secrecy? Not corrupt the WHO to the point that it's completely useless?

One reason that India (less hygenic than China) doesn't generate this kind of disease (I've read) is that when doctors find something bad they immediately inform the government who thanks them and then sends in experts to deal with it. That's a far less dysfunctional way of dealing with things than China currently has...
cms neuf - | 1,588
23 Apr 2020 #1,697
But they are Commies so they won't do that
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
23 Apr 2020 #1,698
Not stonewall the international community with lies and secrecy?

What I find interesting is comparing their attitude to the Soviet Union's after Chernobyl. It was largely the same story - suppressing doctors, hiding inconvenient truths and attempting to steer the world towards blaming individuals rather than the collective mentality. They even lied about how much concrete was used in the sarcophagus for no apparent reason.

Everything focused on 'victory' - which is exactly what we're seeing in China now, and to a lesser extent in places like Poland.
Paulwiz 1 | 70
23 Apr 2020 #1,699
@cms neuf

What do you expect China to do

My approach to China is to "move on". Not very satisfying but what else can we do? But moving on means to correct the situation. We have allowed them to become a monopoly for many products like drugs, electronics, rare earth elements. We must isolate them as the untrustworthy business source that they are. The idea that their products are cheaper becomes false after we add in the cost of paying for the pathogens that they export to the world. (Don't forget yearly influenza costs.) So we need to quit doing business with disreputable business partners like China.

Handled correctly, there would be tremendous opportunities for our reputable business partners.
For example, let's say Poland has the desire and capability to become a pharmaceutical supplier but their products will cost more than similar products from China. The rest of the world needs to apply a tariff to the Chinese products to make them more expensive than the Polish products. I know the free market does not like tariffs but we pay it now with our medical costs associated with Chinese pathogens every year.

But .... Do we in the Free World have the perseverance to implement a plan like this?
cms neuf - | 1,588
23 Apr 2020 #1,700
There are already tariffs for many Chinese products. Having more is just going to make them more expensive.

And anyway I presume you are taking about the US, in which case do what you want and vote for someone who will put up tariffs.

The other 180 countries can do what they want - I don't see the point of making everything more expensive just because 500 people died from a virus. German made cars kill many times more people in Poland every year
johnny reb 23 | 4,497
23 Apr 2020 #1,701
apply a tariff to the Chinese products to make them more expensive

Like Trump did by being the first president, that we have ever had, to stand up to them and slap a $500 billion tariff on their goods to level the playing field ?

It collapsed China's economy if you remember and then the virus showed up and collapsed ours.
And like PolAm and I have repeatedly said here......."this virus has already infected a lot more people then the government wants you to know."

Stanford University did an independent study in Santa Clara county testing people to see if they had caught the virus.
They found that 85% more were testing positive then what the governments statistics were showing. (PolAm & johnny take a small bow)
Now it is estimated that 1.3 million people in New York have had it.
I have heard to many first hand stories of people, including myself, who have had all the symptoms starting last November.
They know that this virus is not as near as deadly statistically if the statistics were to show 85% more people have had it then what they are showing.

The Chinese may be withholding information but so is our governments to just how many people that have been infected.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
23 Apr 2020 #1,702
Coronavirus: EU finance ministers agree on €500 billion emergency fund

euronews.com/2020/04/09/coronavirus-eurogroup-finance-ministers-agree-on-500-billion-emergency-fund

Well...that's something.....but no Coronabonds....maybe for the better!

....The ministers agreed that hard-hit countries could quickly tap the Eurozone's bailout fund for up to €240 billion, as long as the money is spent on their health care systems and the credit line expires after the outbreak is over. A dispute over tying conditions to the rescue funds had held up a deal earlier this week.

The agreement also provides for up to €200 billion in credit guarantees through the European Investment Bank to keep companies afloat and €100 billion to make up lost wages for workers put on shorter hours.....


Definitely better than the ideas during the big banking crisis:

...."If you combine that package with what the European Central Bank is already doing (...) we now have an agreement overall that has happened with the kind of speed and scale that was completely lacking when Europe faced similar challenges a decade ago," he said...
mafketis 23 | 8,381
23 Apr 2020 #1,703
The agreement also provides for up to €200 billion in credit guarantee

In other words, loans.... what's needed is some kind of debt jubilee... I don't know how it can be structured but that's the only solution that doesn't plunge the continent into massive depression and/or destroy the EU....
jon357 63 | 15,214
23 Apr 2020 #1,704
what's needed is some kind of debt jubilee

The alternatives are that (or a mass restructuring) or mass defaults.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
23 Apr 2020 #1,705
In other words, loans

No...not loans. 2008, that had been loans. Here the only limit is the usage...as long as the funds are used as permitted meaning for the health sector or workers wages it is already being paid for, they don't have to pay it back.

I think it's a milestone for the EU, not more...not less! And it is agreeable to all nations...as all countries have something similiar working at home, the govs supporting people and businesses unbureaucratically to keep them alive and afloat without forcing them to pay it back later....

Even the Italians agreed at the end, and they demanded Coronabonds, even if more because of the political situation at home!

That's how SURE will work:
(My translation from a SPIEGEL explanation)

...the EU members guarantee for 25 Billion Euros. With this backing the EU commission borrows till up to 100 Billion Euros to favourable conditions on the capital market and moves them on as needed, for example the wages for workers without jobs because Corona. That will preserve the jobs till the workers can come back!

....another 25 Billion will guarantee that the EIB (European Investment Bank) can further secure till up to 200 Billion Euros for business credits, keeping the entrepreneurs liquid...meaning they don't have to close down their companies and set workers off for good because of Corona.

...the third element are the new ESM (European Stability Mechanism) guidelines. As I said already, different to 2008 this time there will be no austerity demands! Only that the help is used directly or indirectly for the health sector. For every recipient member country up to 2% of it's GDP (Gross Domestic Product)....altogether 240 Billion Euros!


The original article:

spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/eu-gipfel-billigt-500-milliarden-euro-paket-a-642d8bbc-2ad5-4861-a60d-0202de7c2497
Cargo pants 2 | 472
23 Apr 2020 #1,706
Last confirmed flight to Chicago by LOT leaves tomorrow at 4.40 pm from Warsaw for US citizens & Green card holders, has 168 passengers so far.Passengers will get no hot food and just will get doggy bag like snacks etc already placed on seats. Only skeleton crew will be there for emergency services as per LOT.They said even walk ins might be able to buy tickets.I expect all these procedures becoming a norm for airline industry in future to save money.
Joker 1 | 1,574
23 Apr 2020 #1,707
Last confirmed flight to Chicago by LOT leaves tomorrow

Are they still flying into Chicago only or can you land in NYC?

Passengers will get no hot food and just will get doggy bag li

Just drink a few beers the night before and sleep during the flight. Youll probably have empty seat next to you unless youre already sitting in 1st class lol
PolAmKrakow 1 | 433
24 Apr 2020 #1,708
Interesting that I rebooked my flight to USA for July 1. While doing that, there were plenty of flight options, with plenty of transfer points, including Paris, Amsterdam, Munich and Berlin. When making flight arrangements to return three weeks later, more options as well. So I spoke to my agent and simply asked how could there be so many options at this time. She said they have been told to expect to be back to 70 to 80 percent of operational capacity by mid June.

I spoke to Delta and United while doing this. So, the USA appears to have some kind of plans, and with that, they would have to be talking to Poland and other countries about their plans if they are starting to book these flights.
Crow 139 | 8,583
24 Apr 2020 #1,709
Your grandmother was a very wise woman Crow who I give much admiration to.

Indeed she was. Dragon woman. Mother of my mother. Chetniks saved her from Germans and ustashe in WWII. What she endured, if alive she would be now immune on Corona, for sure.

And look at you, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

God bless you man. You are also worthy descendant of your venerable ancestors. They may be only proud. As long as you and your blood line live, they live. May it be to the eternity.
cms neuf - | 1,588
24 Apr 2020 #1,710
Good luck to you guys if you are thinking of heading to the US - hope you make it back safe. Difficult choice but difficult to be away from family too.

Hope you don't get sick over there but Trump has the answer -inject people with disinfectant.


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