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Coronavirus in Poland


johnny reb 23 | 4,518
19 Apr 2020 #1,561
but she told me to stay so I will.

Ut oh !
Sounds suspicious to me.

Interesting prediction. I'm not so confident -

I have to agree.
They may put people back to work in May but no public socializing until June and even then it will be limited.
Definitely no football games or concerts or the such.
If this virus mutates, which is very possible, we are all going to be in a heap of sht.
mafketis 23 | 8,404
19 Apr 2020 #1,562
If this virus mutates

viruses usually mutate into milder versions...
PolAmKrakow 1 | 434
19 Apr 2020 #1,563
@mafketis

Its been reported that it has already mutated 4 times if I recall correctly. There was a mutation when it came to Europe, and another from Europe to North America.

@johnny reb

Poland can not afford to have hotels, eateries, pubs and other tourism driven industries idle. They know this. Hotel owners are already complaining. The "shield" here was cute. Cute because its not really much of a shield IMO. Breaks on ZUS that have to be made up later. Some subsidy to companies who keep employees at work. But when companies cant operate because they have no one to sell too, they fire everyone.

USA 1200 USD per person once thus far and 500 per child. Like throwing a pebble into a pond and expecting a tidal wave. Canada 2000 CAD per person for six months plus 500 per child. Now thats an economic shield.
cms neuf - | 1,589
19 Apr 2020 #1,564
Ridiculous - if it's ok to go to work it's ok to go for a drink.

Well tomorrow the stupid thing about numbers of people in a shop finishes. So how can we shop but not go out to the pub ?
mafketis 23 | 8,404
19 Apr 2020 #1,565
Its been reported that it has already mutated 4 times if I recall correctly. T

Given the ever increasing crazy quilt list of symptoms and the wildly different courses that infection takes I'm almost assuming there are now functionally several different viruses most of which aren't really dangerous (though the dangerous one is really bad and hard to root out once it become established)
johnny reb 23 | 4,518
19 Apr 2020 #1,566
So how can we shop but not go out to the pub ?

Because one is a necessity and one is not.
When you shop you can social distance but when you are in a Pub, half in the bag, spitting on everyone when you talk is a different ball game.
jon357 63 | 15,214
19 Apr 2020 #1,567
if it's ok to go to work it's ok to go for a drink.

They've been doing that in Sweden, and it hasn't been a success.

numbers of people in a shop finishes

Not completely; there are still restrictions.
cms neuf - | 1,589
19 Apr 2020 #1,568
Not a disaster either - Sweden deaths per million 150, more or less in the middle of EU countries and far lower than Belgium, Holland, UK, France, Spain, Italy which all had full lockdowns.

It needs more than just lockdown laws to solve this - testing, buying equipment etc. Thet haven't bothered to do that so why should we be bothered to stay inside indefinitely ? They put zero thought into whatever they stand up and say - tonight they announced you can go to the forest, have to wear your mask in the car park but can take it off once you are in the forest - who dreams up this humbug ?
jon357 63 | 15,214
19 Apr 2020 #1,569
Not a disaster either

It's a disaster. Remember that the human geography of Sweden differs a lot from the country you mention. The best (worst) comparison is with Finland, who are on strict lockdown and have had half the deaths per million of Sweden (where the situation is deteriorating).

tonight they announced you can go to the forest. ... who dreams up this humbug,

They're populists without a reliable understanding (if such exists) of technopopulism. Basically Johnson without a Cummings, Trumpet without a Bannon.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 434
19 Apr 2020 #1,570
A month into lockdown, close the parks. Five weeks into lockdown, masks mandatory. A week after parks close, open them up. This is just a game to these guys and they have no idea what they are doing. Its an exercise in control. But for a month, parks were open, No restrictions on the numbers of people in stores, no masks and no spikes into the thousands of infections. Health minister saying no normal voting for 2 years now? We all know what this is about.

Simple solution. If you are worried or high risk, stay home. If not, go about your life. I appreciate the efforts made to flatten the curve. Mass infection for the most part in Poland has been avoided. Take care of the cluster areas and leave the rest of the country to their own devices.
cms neuf - | 1,589
19 Apr 2020 #1,571
No that's not true - Sweden urbanization is 85 percent. France is 80, UK is 83, Finland 85. I can't be bothered to look the rest up but they will all be roughly the same.

Finland might have 200 people dying instead of Sweden's 1000 but has shut down its economy and created years worth of debt and collateral damage to achieve it. Without looking it up I bet half the Swedish cases were in care homes, not from going to the pub.

Sweden's results are average, not better, not worse - right in the middle of the EU numbers.

When this is over you will have a hard time proving that lockdowns were more important than other factors - masks, emergency beds, testing, maybe the TB vaccine, maybe underlying health - smoking, obesity etc.
Cargo pants 2 | 476
19 Apr 2020 #1,572
Sounds suspicious to

Trust me JR I am not that lucky:)
jon357 63 | 15,214
19 Apr 2020 #1,573
Sweden urbanization

Mostly in smaller towns. What they lack is the large conurbations that Belgium, Italy and the U.K. have. There's no M25, no Greater Manc, no South no Takem/Makem, no West Yorkshire, no Clydeside in Sweden. Affluence helps a lot too.

quote=cms neuf]Sweden's results are average[/quote]
They're actually getting very worried there.
johnny reb 23 | 4,518
19 Apr 2020 #1,574
Sweden's results are average, not better, not worse -

Give it two more weeks and report back with us.

They're actually getting very worried there.

Yes they are as deaths are increasing daily.

- smoking

Actually they have found that smokers have a lower rate of catching the virus for some reason.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 434
19 Apr 2020 #1,575
@johnny reb

Because the virus is selective and smokers already killing themselves. lol
jon357 63 | 15,214
19 Apr 2020 #1,576
smokers have a lower rate of catching the virus for some reason.

Their lungs are coated with a layer of tar ;-)
cms neuf - | 1,589
19 Apr 2020 #1,577
Ok - let's wait a few weeks - but there are plenty of doommongering articles about Sweden from 2-3 weeks ago.
jon357 63 | 15,214
19 Apr 2020 #1,578
Their virologists are now getting very worried, since their approach hasn't worked.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 434
19 Apr 2020 #1,579
@jon357

Enough dooms day stuff. Even in USA the curve is flattening. In Poland we are more than a month into this and it hasn't been anything close to what some predicted. USA now saying its numbers will be lower than anticipated. Yes, people at risk got sick, yes some of the died. Its not even close to Spanish flu, and not nearly as bad as predicted. Everyone needs to take a breath and relax. Look at the numbers. Math never lies, unless its Chinese math.
jon357 63 | 15,214
19 Apr 2020 #1,580
Enough dooms day stuff

There's plenty more 'doomsday stuff' yet to come...
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,848
19 Apr 2020 #1,581
In fact I read that Chinese mobile phone usage has dropped by about 20 million.
This is probably a better guide to mortality rates than listening to Chinese gov
Cargo pants 2 | 476
19 Apr 2020 #1,582
My friends furniture supplier in China said if they found one person sick then they would take the whole family to hospital and none returns.They suspect they killed them.
Cargo pants 2 | 476
19 Apr 2020 #1,584
Thats China,CCP rules.Lots of empty flats all over China
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,848
19 Apr 2020 #1,585
Ok it wasn't 20 million but a figure about 10 times the official death rate.
cms neuf - | 1,589
19 Apr 2020 #1,586
bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-19/sweden-says-controversial-covid-19-strategy-is-proving-effective

Well these ones say they think it's working.

I have no idea which approach is right but I will take some convincing that hard lockdown per se is the most effective strategy - has to be backed up by other measures.
mafketis 23 | 8,404
19 Apr 2020 #1,587
but a figure about 10 times the official death rate.

One person who knows China suggested the official rate was between 10 and 100 times the official rate, one person who monitored cremations came up with a figure about 15 times higher than the official rate in Wuhan...

The Chinese communist party is obsessed with face and secrecy and so the true extent is liable to never be known... They have caused all Chinese to lose face!
Cargo pants 2 | 476
19 Apr 2020 #1,588
Today till 9.45 in Poland 545 cases,the Maximum so far in a day.I think they might increase the quarentine.I read somewhere that Poland will peak around 27th.
Torq 32 | 2,999
19 Apr 2020 #1,589
All main issues in the Church derive directly from the decisions made then and there.

Really? Did simony, selling of indulgences and immorality of clergy start only after Vaticanum II? Did the Borgias rule the Church before or after Vaticanum II?

When I was young and naive, I also believed that the council was the main problem. Not anymore. Of course, it didn't solve any problems and added more to the already existing ones, but romanticizing the pre-Vaticanum2 Church is just silly. The rot started long before that.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,075
19 Apr 2020 #1,590
A study in California revealed that the number of infected in a population is at least three times higher than the number officialy registered.


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