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Coronavirus in Poland

24 Mar 2020 #841
what is the polish economic stimulus consist of? this is what the danes are doing
cms neuf - | 1,579
24 Mar 2020 #842
A lot less than that - basically there is a few months tax holiday (that is quite difficult to get as the criteria exclude a lot of people). Some small businesses get 2000 zloty cash.

There is some fund for paying employees but a lot less generous than the ones in other countries.

Few other small things like freezing some rents in shopping malls but nothing much.

Even in the best of times our govt would not be as rich as Denmark. Now the zloty is tanking which will make borrowing very difficult and the govt does not not have much left in its reserves.
johnny reb 28 | 4,561
24 Mar 2020 #843
Not even 10,000 people have died from the China virus world wide compared to:
About 147,000 people have been killed in the Afghanistan war since 2001.
More than 110,000 people have died in the conflict in Syria since March 2011.
In total, the CDC estimates that up to 42.9 million people got sick during the 2018-2019 flu season and 61,200 died.
Few even blinked an eye.
Why, because it was no threat to us personally.
The low risk China virus is a threat to all of us personally so the panic has set in.
johnny reb 28 | 4,561
25 Mar 2020 #845

Communism is Alive and Well in Poland

Communism is alive and well in Poland.
"People in quarantine have a choice: either receive unexpected visits from the police, or download this app,"
Poland Using Quarantine App, Forces People To Take Selfies To Prove They're Home

And once you hit that app they will be able to track you the rest of the time you own that phone. (Years)
Covid-19: 'Selfie app' to keep track of quarantined Poles
Plus they have your mug shot filed in their data base that you gave them for free.

Those Commie MF are treating the people of Poland like they are criminals by tethering them like animals.
May as well just put the chip under the skin and get it over with.
cms neuf - | 1,579
25 Mar 2020 #846
You are right - I am working through a pile of oooks and just started the Age of Surveillance Capitalism about how google and Facebook gather data about you. But it is like a postcard from another planet - in the space of one week the govt has gone to telling me when I can leave the house, who I can talk to and what I can buy.

It will take years for society to recover from the unintended consequence of this.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 593
25 Mar 2020 #847
@cms neuf

People will not change habits so quickly. Looking at Spanish flu, people didnt start changing until it came back for second wave. This will likely be the same thing. Very similar cases socially speaking thus far, clearly not similar medically.

Day one when people are allowed to restart their normal daily activities will be a big party in many cases. Social distancing will be tossed aside for hugs and congratulatory handshaking. Most will think its "over". The summer will be nice and by September, this will be a memory for many. Until it comes back.

I dont have as much faith in peoples ability to unlearn years of ingrained behaviors. Just this morning, I saw a group of people in planty gathered and talking while walking dags. Clearly oblivious that there were 6 of them together all within a meter of each other. And the rules were made yesterday...
cms neuf - | 1,579
25 Mar 2020 #848
Yes you are right - I have a long list of places I want to visit when this is over and for sure i will party :)

There will be a second wave and hope that this time the world is better prepared
Spike31 2 | 2,101
25 Mar 2020 #849
Even is slowly waking up:

"It is not a coronavirus but how we react to it in Europe which is the main problem. We're creating a new economic depression"
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
25 Mar 2020 #850
And the rules were made yesterday..

The rules have no legal force as of now. They haven't published the required regulations.

It's been remarkably badly handled - as of last night, they had changed the official government website several times, with the rules there changed each time. However, as of 9:00am today, there are no restrictions on internal movement.
cms neuf - | 1,579
25 Mar 2020 #851
The moment morawiecki sat down the questions started - it's ok to walk your dog in the forest but not yourself, no definition of essential work etc. and as you say no legal instruments to enforce
kondzior 12 | 1,196
25 Mar 2020 #852
LOL at the "economy" which is already laughable at best, every country on this Earth is neck deep in debt and it never seems to matter.
Joker 2 | 1,276
25 Mar 2020 #853
members don't even help each other during emergencies?

I noticed that as well. The EU members seemly don't care about their neighbors and aren't willing to help each other.

Why does Poland stay in The EU? Its dysfunctional at best.
johnny reb 28 | 4,561
25 Mar 2020 #854
It is certainly understandable why there are so many conspiracy theories going around about this virus.
Was this a planned by the Globalists for a perfect storm ?
They are taking our freedoms at an alarming rate just like they are doing in Poland collecting so much personal information.
Many countries are saying that the virus started in America and not China.
Did America create this for another unending war ?
Now they are trying to control us from sharing certain information using the virus as an excuse.
Under Cover Of Coronavirus Congress Introduces Bill That Allows Gov To Control All Internet Content
PolAmKrakow 1 | 593
25 Mar 2020 #855
While some may think this story is bad or alarming, I think iits great the government could do it, and the company was fairly compensated. That said, they should let them ship to Norway now too.
Paulwiz 1 | 70
25 Mar 2020 #856
@johnny reb

many conspiracy theories going around

I love a good conspiracy theory but I haven't seen one. Very disappointing. Oh, there are lots of opinions and a bunch of political trolls but no good conspiracy theories IMHO.

It doesn't count to just state that (pick as many as you like) "Trump / US / Jews / Right / etc. made the virus". I need proof. After all, I don't work for CNN. I want pictures of the alien ship that crashed near Wuhan. Or a picture of the tiny American flag built into the RNA structure of the virus. The proof doesn't need to be flawless but it needs to be good enough to convince a climate scientist. Use of Photoshop is encouraged.
johnny reb 28 | 4,561
25 Mar 2020 #857
but it needs to be good enough to convince a climate scientist.

Boy is that a chunk of bait. lol
Are you a climate scientist or just a pretend one like disgruntled Greta and Al Gore ?

but I haven't seen one.

Heavens forbid that I start one, better that you do.
All I am saying is follow the money because the numbers certainly are not adding up.
China was p.o.'d that Trump collapsed their economy and now China is using the virus in their favor.
That's why Trump wants to put everybody in America back to work to avoid that from happening to America.
The virus is a silent war and there will be casualties just like any other war.
Nobody blinks when a couple thousand boys get killed in Afghanistan.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,665
25 Mar 2020 #858

Like I said numerous times, the EU is good for funding sidewalk repairs and sprucing up old gyms in the eastern eu members. But actually stemming the tide of migrants or helping italy, spain or germanistan with the coronavrius theyre as useless as tits on a bull or a eunech in a whorehouse... take your pick..

And yet Russia steps in to help - a country the euroceats vilify in propoganda yet have no problem doing business with. And then they wonder why the leaders of hungary, austria, etc cozy up to putin
Crow 146 | 8,808
25 Mar 2020 #859
Have no fear of Corona. There are worse things then that. Think of your immortal soul.

Face your Slavic (ie Sarmatian) ancestors with dignity and without shame. Let Christ love you even more when see that you aren`t selfish. So add prayers to Svetovid and all good spirits to your daily prayers no matter are you Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Judaist, Buddhist, Muslim or whatever.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
25 Mar 2020 #860
I think iits great the government could do it

You think it's great that they've set the precedent of seizing goods in that way? The factory is now closed, and they won't be supplying Polish hospitals or otherwise. Other companies will see the same, and simply choose to stop production rather than risk the goods being seized.

The "fixed price" doesn't mean they've been fairly compensated. Have they received the same amount of money as they would have got from selling to Norway?
PolAmKrakow 1 | 593
25 Mar 2020 #861

In an emergency, yes. I think its great. The factory is not closed, they stopped production, there is a difference. They only produce what is ordered, not to have a stock of supply. This isn't an issue of whats fair in a free market economy. I moved my business from USA to Poland. I understand the risk with different tax and governmental systems. They did too. Its a simple risk vs reward discussion when opening a business or expanding into a foreign country. Companies wont leave Poland over this. Being an entrepreneur is all about measuring risk. Coronavirus is a "black swan" event. Cant be predicted, but smart business people are always prepared for the unknown possibility.
cms neuf - | 1,579
25 Mar 2020 #862
Wouldn't it have been better to split the load 50 50 and do a deal to keep the factory open on that basis ? For one evenings fun with their guns and badges they have created a lose lose situation where the factory simply stops production.

The workers in that factory will still want jobs when this mess is finished.

Hopefully behind the scenes they are sorting something sensible out
PolAmKrakow 1 | 593
25 Mar 2020 #863
@cms neuf

Sure 50/50 is a great idea. Unless you are a political leader who is sworn to protect the country and the people in it. In a time like this, its every man for himself, or country if you will. Clearly the EU and USA are noticing this now. Poland got hung out to dry for closing the country up first. Then two or three days later the whole EU followed. Lets look at the world with clear eyes, and not some idealistic fantasy colored glasses.

The factory wont close, they get the same financial relief opportunity as any other Polish company. The employees will still have jobs. Factory work in this field will now be a growth industry moving forward.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
25 Mar 2020 #864
The factory wont close

What makes you so sure of it? If they've lost a large amount of money, what motivation is there to keep the factory open when they can move production to a country that doesn't behave in such a reckless way? Poland is nothing special - they could easily relocate to other CEE countries if they feel that the environment is unfriendly.

Remember, businesses need stability, and if the government starts pulling these students, it will simply encourage them to go elsewhere. There are other problems right now, such as the government seizing supplies from hospitals that ordered them directly in the absence of any order by central government, or seizing a ventilator that was purchased by a local government for their hospital.

The current situation where the government banned the private sale of masks, only to order masks (at a huge mark-up) from a company run by a member of PiS is a perfect example of the kind of behaviour that frightens business owners.
mafketis 24 | 8,881
25 Mar 2020 #865
PiS supporters (who deny they're PiS supporters) are now preparing to say that PO did worse...
Weimarer 8 | 415
25 Mar 2020 #866
@johnny reb

You have no clue. Corona has a mortality of 4%. Its in its initial phase. It is more infectious than the flue and 20 times more dead. For your own country it means 5.9 Million would die from it.

Math is not your strength i suppose.
Vesko Vukovic 1 | 156
25 Mar 2020 #867
Difference between quarantine in Italy and Germany:

Cargo pants 2 | 641
25 Mar 2020 #868
Today I was talking to some friends in the States and all are so casual about it in NJ.Even my wife is not that serious.I think people are not expecting that a tsunami is going to come.I feel so lucky to be locked down in Poland.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
25 Mar 2020 #869
PiS supporters (who deny they're PiS supporters) are now preparing to say that PO did worse...

It's quite amazing how they defend the worst behaviour, as long as it's by 'one of theirs'.
Vesko Vukovic 1 | 156
25 Mar 2020 #870

Just wait till these spring break morons from Florida arrange themselves accross their states.

USA moves above Spain as the 3rd most infected country in the world and according to WHO reports is expected to become the epicentre of the disease as estimates show that coronavirus is spreading at an even faster rate than in Italy.

Cuomo says state will need 55,000-110,000 hospital beds and 18,600-37,200 ICU beds at projected peak, and that state currently has 53,000 hospital beds and 3,000 ICU beds.

Estimated needs 6-12x greater than available capacity.

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