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Coronavirus in Poland

kondzior 12 | 1,245
15 Apr 2021 #5,941
I'm 100% on-board with old and frail people getting vaxxed. Stick that needle in and go nuts. Even if it's the sterilising poison of conspiracy fame, it doesn't matter to them since they're old anyway and they don't want to go to hospital with the coof. But don't bother young people with some bullshit.

Maybe in the next 9 months, once enough boomers have been vaccinated, globohomo governments will simply call it a day. They'll just rip up all the social distancing markers and destroy the massive test-and-trace capacity they've created. Executive governments will simply return their powers to parliaments, which will all consist of honest politicians who will represent their constituents properly. A liberation day will be held. People will be dancing in the streets, burning face masks and the whole period will be like a combination of V-E Day and the Summer of Love. "Cases" will circulate, but governments will say that we need to live with this just like with the flu, and in any case we can't afford to maintain this test/trace/isolate capacity forever.

Of course we all know this scenario is extremely unlikely. But suppose it's true. Suppose our governments have nothing but love and good will towards us, and are working round-the-clock to get us back to the old normal ASAP, even though 100% of their behaviour so far is indicating the complete opposite. What do you then actually lose if you don't immediately cave in to the pressure to get a vaccine you don't need? A few more months in the transitional period where you'll need some mild social distancing in general, and get tested if you want to fly on holiday? Otherwise what's the actual loss proposition if you're young and healthy and you don't take the vaccine under intense social pressure?

In the far more likely scenario that:

1) Vaccines have serious problems not all of which have yet been discovered.
2) Governments will not just "give back freedom" even if 70% of people get vaccinated, which is going to happen anyway in most Western countries looking at the uptake so far.

Then you were smart, you didn't get rushed into doing something that gave you little to no clear benefit, and unlike the people who complied and got fooled, you can at least walk around with your head held high, prepared for whatever else comes next. Whereas those who keep complying for nothing will sink deeper and deeper in the morass.
johnny reb 29 | 5,324
15 Apr 2021 #5,942
Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said people will "likely" need a booster dose of a Covid-19 vaccine within 12 months of getting fully vaccinated.
His comments were made public Thursday but were taped April 1.
The elites are getting very rich off these vaccines.
It's gonna be very interesting to see what the after effects of these DNA altering vaccines are going to have in a couple of years from now.

Living in the wilderness of Alaska on a good trout stream that glitters with gold is looking better every day.
Crow 146 | 9,254
15 Apr 2021 #5,943
Serbian president Vucic today spoke of great injustice on AstraZeneka vaccine, saying how Oxford producer moved on market with lowest price with intention to make vaccine available for the poorest people. Vucic said that certain companies decided to punish AstraZeneka with abundant anti-campaign because of a low price of AstraZeneka`s vaccine. How AstraZeneka dared to have such a low price.

And spot this >

In a fifteen-minute broadcast by Italian Mediaset, Italia channel 1, showed vaccination in Serbia and Italy.

While we vaccinate 450, they vaccinate 7,800 - Italian media report

Presenting the headline "Serbia, a vaccine paradise", journalist Gaetano Pecoraro pointed out the great differences between Serbia, ..... the European Union

ITA video >
Novichok 1 | 2,545
16 Apr 2021 #5,944
something that gave you little to no clear benefit,

Kids must be vaccinated for spreadable diseases to be allowed to go to school because vaccines make them unable to infect other kids, vaccinated or not. OK. I got it.

If that's the case, why do I have to continue with that dust shield while my vaccine ID card is on my forehead for all to see?
PolAmKrakow 1 | 777
16 Apr 2021 #5,945
Yesterday our Minister of Health made it known the R number is .83 in Poland. Wasn't it that once the R number was under 1 that things were good to open up?
mafketis 25 | 9,270
16 Apr 2021 #5,946
Maybe but he's changed the benchmarks a number of times, as soon as one is met he finds another.

In other words, the policies are not about health.

It's about capital transfer (all those businesses shut down you've mentioned a time or two - that's not..... an accident as much as you want to pretend it is).

Essentially "pandemic" policy in most countries is Austerity on steroids.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 777
16 Apr 2021 #5,947
More than 48,000 Polish owned business have closed since January 2021. Projected another 210,000 close before the end of the year. A total of 10% of all Polish business expected to go under. This is not including all the sole proprietors who have simply disappeared. But hey, lets keep those masks on in the park, and in the car, and we certainly can not open business for the sole reason of keeping people from going completely broke. Brilliant.
mafketis 25 | 9,270
16 Apr 2021 #5,948
we certainly can not open business for the sole reason of keeping people from going completely broke

As I said, businesses closing is a goal, not a regrettable side effect.
mafketis 25 | 9,270
16 Apr 2021 #5,949
Numbers from today's day, all (relatively) good...

percent of positive test results: 21.48 % (of 83,000 tests the new normal in percentages is between 19-23 percent, an improvement)

hospital admissions: -472 (third day in a row of minus figures)

deaths: 595 (still high but lower than yesterday)

from the previous day*: 7 day moving average of daily deaths: 565 (down 38 from yesterday) again, this will be the last significant parameter to fall...

*the source I use is a day behind and I'm too lazy to calculate on my own
amiga500 3 | 572
16 Apr 2021 #5,950
whilst i agree with you to a great extent mafketis , the sad truth is that in poland and in europe the overwhelming majority support lockdowns. In poland the only party that opposes it is konfed, and their support has remained stable at about 10 percent. So it's hard to go against the populace in a democracy. Meanwhile they are spending 204 billion zloty to try and keep the economy and businesses afloat.
mafketis 25 | 9,270
16 Apr 2021 #5,951
the overwhelming majority support lockdowns.

No they don't.

But a failing of democracy is that leading parties actually share some policy positions that are not held by the majority but can't be changed because the viable parties are against changing them.

PiS and PO are pretty lockstep about repressive measures and no sane person will vote for the unstable psychos running Konfederacja....
amiga500 3 | 572
16 Apr 2021 #5,952
If the internal polling showed there was support for 'letting the virus rip' rest assured that PO and Hołownia and PSL would advocate for this to differentiate themselves from United Right. As would other opposition parties in Europe. In fact the reverse has happened, Macron and Boris and Babiš are attacked on dillydallying and not introducing lockdowns earlier and are thus blamed for 2nd/3rd wave. There is two much fear pr*n by the media for any rational analysis of the virus by the populace.
Novichok 1 | 2,545
16 Apr 2021 #5,953
As I said, businesses closing is a goal, not a regrettable side effect.

I am desperately trying to see the difference between the commies in 194x and the "democratic" Poland today. Can somebody help me?

PiS and PO are pretty lockstep about repressive measures

A copy of PZPR and the other one, whatever it was called back then.

in Poland and in Europe the overwhelming majority support lockdowns.

Which only shows how effective the lying covid terrorists are. It's also possibly the "I don't want to be the first to die" syndrome so I will obey no matter what. That's how 10 SS with machine guns were able to control 1000 before they were gassed.
Cargo pants 2 | 1,081
16 Apr 2021 #5,954
difference between the commies in 194x and the "democratic" Poland today.

Smart people had money then and now even dumb fugs have it on credit,this is the basic difference.
amiga500 3 | 572
16 Apr 2021 #5,955
""The head of the funding, the head of the entire field, really, is Anthony Fauci," Rogin said. "He's the godfather of gain-of-function research as we know it. That, what I said right there, is too hot for TV,"
Novichok 1 | 2,545
16 Apr 2021 #5,956
No they don't.

So much for "democracy" and "the will of the people" and as a final proof that the ruling class sees them as their property the way a farmer sees his pigs.

Other than that, seriously, what do you think is the master plan and the end game that drives the ruling mobs all over the globe. The similarities are disturbing.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 777
16 Apr 2021 #5,957
They are not spending that money on real business. More than 48000 have gone under this year alone. No money for small to medium business is a return to socialism and thinking manufacturing will build an economy. The "shield" is a joke.
amiga500 3 | 572
16 Apr 2021 #5,958
Whilst I don't deny more could be done to help small and medium business, as you posted yourself before, a lot of the businesses did not save for a rainy day and their proprietors wanted to live the amerkansky life, mercedes, expensive suits and lots of nightclubs and dziwki. that is a stereotype but true in some cases.

Of course if the goverment did what australia and U.k did , a job furlough scheme,that allows businesses to hibernate whilst still paying workers with goverment cash then you would be complaining about the deficit and giving money to the people for doing nothing.

What you are really advocating for , is massive direct cash injections to small/medium business owners to do with what they like, so you and your mates can rip off the government.

The tarcza is doing a lot, from zus and other tax moratorium, micro grants , rent decreases etc etc.

And yes manufacturing is an important part of the polish econonomy, We are Europe's no 1 producer of batteries and electric buses for instance, as well as one of the leaders in pharmaceuticals. Not everything will be made in china
PolAmKrakow 1 | 777
16 Apr 2021 #5,959
"We"? You are not "we" or "us" until you are here living, working, paying taxes and supporting this country.

If the gov did a furlough plan, yes I would not like the deficit, but that would be necessary deficit and beneficial to not just those receiving the cash, but to the business they spend their cash with. Its called liquidity.

I am advocating for PiS to stop ripping off the money and giving it all to the state owned corporations, and their cronies. Simple. Stop raping the country while the pandemic is going on, then when its over you have a few more years to steal all you can. Self control. PiS and PO do not have it. Both have proven to be nothing but thieves.

There are no rent decreases, no micro grants, and there is absolutely no tax moratorium.

Europe's number one batter producer. Great. Economy fixed by the energizer bunny.

Number one in electric busses. Excellent. How many have been sold and ordered in the last year? I spoke to some friends in Sanok and Nowy Targ who work at companies involved in this business not too long ago. Both of whom said they are broke, all savings gone, and now behind on bills. Smart men who saved, and live modest lives. That's the bus business today.

My observations on Poland are those from going all around the country. Living here and dealing with people involved. Not forming opinions on what can be found on the web.
amiga500 3 | 572
16 Apr 2021 #5,960
no micro grants, and there is absolutely no tax moratorium.

As I mentioned previously which you dismissed by saying you are not using it. there is a 3 month moratorium on paying ZUS. There is also a wage subsidy scheme (similar to job furlough) \ if a business can show loss of income. The micro grant is pretty useless though as it's only 2000zloty All the info is on the tarcza page but unf you can't read polish. All these initiatives are available to micro, small and medium business. Stop lying.

beneficial to not just those receiving the cash, but to the business they spend their cash with.

Thank you for making the case for 500+ which is in line with my views.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 777
16 Apr 2021 #5,961
You need to stop lying. My ability to read in Polish is pretty good, and having a built in translator on my computer helps too.

Clearly you have zero legal background and can not understand the qualifications for wage subsidy. You can not understand the loss of income qualifications, or the total income qualifications.

The three month moratorium? It ran out in mid January and has not been renewed. Meanwhile, ZUS is being pillaged for other programs and is structured so that ZUS goes up annually and that raise is not in accordance with CLI.

You are the worst kind of commie. You are Biden without a infrastructure plan as a smoke screen. At least that socialist is getting people vaccinated. PiS can't even get that right. Which I witnessed first hand today visiting one of my business's and saw just how well the vaccination center is coming together that was supposed to be open last week. Yeah, the army doctors just arriving after lunch today a week late.
amiga500 3 | 572
16 Apr 2021 #5,962
You can not understand the loss of income qualifications,

Yes you need to show loss of income. What is there to understand? I just did the questionare on the tarcza site, said i was an employer of >50 people, have been running my business for more than a year, had a decrease of income of 50 percent, am not in arrears of my taxes and my revenue did not come from public sources. Result is my business can qualify for up to 70 percent wage subsidy. Please tell me what I don't understand, or perhaps you don't know what the hell is going on ? "The envisaged pool of subsidies for micro-enterprises amounts to PLN 6.5 billion, as for the SME sector, where the amount of support is also PLN 6.5 billion.

It ran out in mid January and has not been renewed.

Tarcza 2 was introduced and ZUS moratorium continued.
Everyone knows this How can anyone who claims to run a business be so ignorant?
"5. For what period of exemption from ZUS under the anti-crisis shield?
The exemption from ZUS is permanent for a period of 3 months: March, April and May. "

I have now proved you are completely ignorant about Poland or willfully lying.

Please keep to the topic of the thread
PolAmKrakow 1 | 777
16 Apr 2021 #5,963
And once again, you don't understand the details. If your losses do not meet the loss/time equation, then you don't get the money. And if your loss is one tenth of one percent off of the equation, you get nothing. So, the program encourages business to actually loose more than to fight to compete and stay alive in the pandemic. It encourages closures in order to collect money.

Even if a company qualifies, they are not doing enough business to pay the remaining 30% of wages to keep people employed. Because people, and other business are not spending money. Manufacturing is some of the hardest hit.

Just because a program exists, does not mean it works or that any money is getting to the right people. Your business education is not even on a "down the road" level.

If there is a new ZUS exclusion, great. i wont use it and dont need it. And all it does is postpone ZUS payments, you have to make them up completely if you use this program.

The USA PPP plan was money in cash to pay salaries of employees. That plan worked. I know many people who used it. The government created debit with is. But it was good debit. And put money into the economy. That is what should have been done. But PiS cant follow common sense they have to make up some BS program on their own without any experience in marco economics that anyone with a brain can see.

This is a pandemic. This requires experts in economics. Not fools who have no experience, and no business running a country. They cant even get vaccinations done without screwing them up. The vaccinations that they said would bring the country to normalcy for the virus they already said they defeated.
amiga500 3 | 572
16 Apr 2021 #5,964
loss is one tenth of one percent off of the equation.. to pay the remaining 30% of wages ... encourages business to actually loose,

Yes that is why there is a ratio of loss of income to wage subsidy in the scheme. No **** sherlock every policy will have cutoffs and edge cases, that does not mean the program is a failure. Both the U.K and Australia had similar proof of loss of income to qualify for the 'Tarcza'.

But let's just step back and observe you backpedaling.
You claimed there was no money for micro, small and medium business. Wrong there is 12 Billion.
You claimed there are no micro grants. Wrong
You claimed there that the ZUS exemption was not renewed. Wrong

When you are proven wrong, instead of acknowledging it you instead go to some weird edgecase "Oh well I'm not going to use the ZUS exemption'!.

As for vaccinations apart from U.K and The Great Satan, every country is behind and is suffering rollout issues, plus every country is dealing with people not wanting to be vaccinated. Around 30 percent at this stage. Poland is about in the middle of countries in Europe in the vaccination rate, hardly the disaster you are painting it to be. Could any other party in power have been more efficient with the bureaucratic pathologies in Poland? I doubt it
Novichok 1 | 2,545
16 Apr 2021 #5,965
with people not wanting to be vaccinated.

I have this weird feeling that we will be nagged, if not forced, to wear masks to protect them, the anti-vaxers, which means forever.
amiga500 3 | 572
16 Apr 2021 #5,966
If you want to talk about vaccine incompetence , everyone who wanted one in France had to have an appointment with a GP first to get it approved. Decades of French ingrained bureaucracy can hardly be blamed on solely Macrons party can it?
Novichok 1 | 2,545
16 Apr 2021 #5,967
I meant the refusniks. We will not be able to force them, so they will force us to mask up.
amiga500 3 | 572
16 Apr 2021 #5,968
The refuseniks will be treated like second class citizens with their rights to go to concerts, pubs , travel curtailed.
Novichok 1 | 2,545
16 Apr 2021 #5,969
I am OK with that. Their choice, their consequences. I just don't want to be told that my vaccine means nothing to my mask.
amiga500 3 | 572
17 Apr 2021 #5,970
No I will defend bodily independence and not being to be forced to be injected with experimental vaccines. Stop being so self obsessed.

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