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Coronavirus in Poland


PolAmKrakow 1 | 590
9 Nov 2020 #3,661
@cms neuf
If there is a lockdown, then the government should take no pay at all. Same as the rest of the country. Want to be fair? Then be fair. Take all the money off the table and see what happens. Think PiS will give up their pay? Think any public servants will give up their pay? Think the military will give up their pay?

Please. The whole lockdown idea at this point is financial suicide for the country. It does nothing. We locked down once, and here we are. The virus will run its course, we will all get it eventually. The better idea is for everyone to get some vitamins, health club memberships, and dietary plans. But of course living healthy is too much to ask, so lets just crush business instead. Typical for people who have never done anything in the private sector worth anything.
Atch 17 | 3,427
9 Nov 2020 #3,662
The pensioners payments could be cut.

Are you serious? Any people getting 500 plus who are dependent on that income to avoid poverty choose to have children whether they can afford to support them or not. People don't choose to grow old, it just happens by default. Many pensioners have had grim lives throughout the PRL era and then missed out on the new wealth generated over the last twenty years or so and now you want to take the few zloty extra away from them. I am genuinely surpised at you.
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
9 Nov 2020 #3,663
I am talking about the extra payments 13 and 14 which PiS proposed as election kielbasa - not their regular pension, of course they are entitled to that and I agree they worked for it and made a lot of sacrifice.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
9 Nov 2020 #3,664
telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/covid-lockdown-news-end-uk-coronavirus-cases-deaths/

OK, so a corona placebo is almost ready. I hope this will end the "pandemic" cause the amount of nonsense and paranoia is almost unbearable at this point. Take a flu jab and go back to normality.
Atch 17 | 3,427
9 Nov 2020 #3,665
the extra payments 13 and 14

Up to a point, I agree. Pensioners who don't need those shouldn't get them, but it should be means tested and those who are the poorest should get what they were promised. Of course that would entail paperwork etc that PIS are too lazy and incompletent to organize and would put some old people under pressure who are unsure about how to complete forms etc. logistically it would be easier to just give everybody the payments. The 500 plus has really reached a stage where those high earners who don't need it shouldn't be getting it.
OP Braveheart16 18 | 253
9 Nov 2020 #3,666
amiga500 - Either you support a lockdown, or you support the hospital system being overwhelmed. Choose.

I wouldn't object to a lockdown, together with positive increases in PPE for the medical staff trying to save lives....increased training (to provide real face to face care not just how to oversee testing ) to increase the pool of trained medical staff which at present seems to be woefully short and which reflects on low level of care currently experienced by Covid sick people who deserve better...but of course cost comes to mind and perhaps the 500+ scheme could either be reduced to a 100+ scheme or limited to the first two children or abolished completely....take your pick.
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
9 Nov 2020 #3,667
I think to make it say 390 plus would be a good move - it's still enough but would convince people that everyone needs to make a sacrifice
johnny reb 28 | 5,326
9 Nov 2020 #3,668
The virus will run its course, we will all get it eventually.

I think I mentioned that back in April.
https://polishforums.com/news/poland-coronavirus-85511/41/#msg1733480

But of course living healthy is too much to ask, so lets just crush business instead.

Are you saying that over weight people that get no exercise, eat like pigs, smoking and doing drugs to destroy their immune system that have no self discipline are at the highest risk ?

Just shows you that God has a sense of humor.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
9 Nov 2020 #3,669
What has the world come too? ;)

Social democrat, not socialist ;) I've been a supporter of 500+ being a tax credit from the beginning. It puts money in people's pockets without rewarding pathological behaviour, and if someone has 3 kids, they would pay 1500zł less income tax a month. It's a substantial amount - it would mean that they could earn somewhere in the region of 11000zł as a couple without having to pay income tax.

The critical thing with it being a tax credit is that it's a clear reward for work. If someone is a cashier in Biedronka, then (assuming they get 1500zł in tax credits) they can get promoted without having to pay tax - so there's motivation for them to do just that.

Many pensioners have had grim lives throughout the PRL era

The problem is that not all of them have had such lives. A woman retiring now was 29 when the system changed - is that a reason to give her additional pension payments? One option could be to only give it to those who lived their whole lives in the PRL - but then again, some of them have very fat pensions because they're based on a completely different system. Would it be fair to reward those who might have spent 42 years sitting on a chair in a hotel lobby watching the corridors?

The 13th/14th pension payments also raised a lot of resentment from working people, and with less and less working people, can we really afford to **** them off more?

Take a flu jab and go back to normality.

In Poland? You can't get it for love nor money.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
9 Nov 2020 #3,670
In Poland? You can't get it for love nor money.

Which is good. Other societies will be experimented on before this new flu jab become available in Poland. As long as it ends this stupifying corona farce.

Btw. I wouldn't take it even if I got paid for it but they'll be plenty who will willingly do it for free., some would even pay for it. There's no cure for fools...but there's a vaccine.
pawian 176 | 14,299
9 Nov 2020 #3,671
"pandemic" cause the amount of nonsense and paranoia is almost unbearable at this point

So, you refuse to acknowledge the surge in death rate due to covid ? Read this article from a morgue in Kielce -
echodnia.eu/swietokrzyskie/porazajaca-relacja-z-prosektorium-w-kielcach-tylko-w-miniony-weekend-pochowalismy-kilkadziesiat-osob-ludzie-sa-zrozpaczeni/ar/c1-15275628

Another article - the number of funerals in Krakow has risen by 35% annually. You have to wait two weeks for "vacancy."
rmf24.pl/raporty/raport-koronawirus-z-chin/polska/news-krakow-dwa-tygodnie-czekania-na-pochowek-pogrzeby-takze-w-so,nId,4837021

From personal experience - yesterday the priest read the names of people who had passed away in our parish in the last week- sort of a tradition in our church. He usually reads one, two names. Yesterday, it was 8.

What say you??????



chrisshrew - | 16
9 Nov 2020 #3,672
Maybe I'm missing something but I get the impression that many people think everyone would have to take the vaccine for it to be effective and for life get back to normal. I'm not so sure that is the case. I suspect that if it was made cheap enough or free even that enough would be convinced.

It would I suspect go to vulnerable groups first and to those who want it. However I would be rather uncomfortable with the idea of forced vaccinations for those who refuse to have it. Besides, if the vulnerable get protected by a vaccine then the worry about those without symptoms passing it on to those at risk groups isn't that strong.
johnny reb 28 | 5,326
10 Nov 2020 #3,673
...but there's a vaccine.

Yes there is.
Pfizer Pharmaceutical just announced that they have a vaccine that is 92% effective.
Sad part is that they will only have 60 million available this year.
And the real sad part is that it has to be stored at minus -70 degrees making shipment a nightmare.
There stock jumped $3 a share today and I will be on it at the opening.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,632
10 Nov 2020 #3,674
You mean BioNTech... :)

US secures potential coronavirus vaccine co-developed in Germany

thelocal.de/20200722/us-secures-potential-coronavirus-vaccine-co-developed-in-germany

thelocal.de/20200917/how-one-german-firm-is-racing-to-ramp-up-covid-19-vaccine-production

Germany is already planning the vaccinations!

Germany prepares for 60 coronavirus vaccination centres

thelocal.de/20201023/germany-prepares-for-60-coronavirus-vaccination-centres
johnny reb 28 | 5,326
10 Nov 2020 #3,675
You mean BioNTech.

No, I meant Pfizer.
Pfizer and its partner, the German company, BioNTech, announced preliminary results that suggested their vaccine was more than 90 percent effective.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,632
10 Nov 2020 #3,676
It's the same...they work together!

Pfizer and BioNTech Announce Vaccine Candidate Against COVID-19 Achieved Success in First Interim Analysis from Phase 3 Study

pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-vaccine-candidate-against
johnny reb 28 | 5,326
10 Nov 2020 #3,677
It's the same...they work together!

Isn't that what I just said ?
Here is the latest on the vaccine.

msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-explained/ar-BB1aQx3a?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=msedgdhp
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,632
10 Nov 2020 #3,678
Isn't that what I just said ?

Probably....I better leave now...
amiga500 2 | 223
10 Nov 2020 #3,679
"Nothing, for example, is known about how long the immunity triggered by the vaccine will last, whether it can prevent severe COVID-19, and even whether it will slow transmission rates if it's used widely in a population. It's unclear how well it works in the elderly, who suffer the most from SARS-CoV-2. The vaccine, based on a simple strand of messenger RNA (mRNA), has to be kept at frigid temperatures of below 80 degrees Celsius to preserve the genetic material, and making and delivering it to hundreds of millions-if not billions-of people remain huge challenges." sciencemag.org/news/2020/11/champagne-and-questions-greet-first-data-showing-covid-19-vaccine-works?utm_campaign=ScienceNow&utm_source=Contractor&utm_medium=Facebook
Atch 17 | 3,427
10 Nov 2020 #3,680
One must be cautious and remember that the data analysed so far regarding the Pfizer vaccine relates to only 94 of the 43,000 individuals trialled. That, taken with the new strain of Covid-19 found in the mink population and already transmitted to a small number of humans, means that the effectiveness of this vaccine is still very much a moot point. It's certainly better than nothing but far from being a panacea.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 590
10 Nov 2020 #3,681
@johnny reb
"Are you saying that over weight people that get no exercise, eat like pigs, smoking and doing drugs to destroy their immune system that have no self discipline are at the highest risk ?"

Sometimes, there is justice in the world. Nature usually finds a way to purge what needs to be purged. lol
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
10 Nov 2020 #3,682
@PolAmKrakow
Justice? That people fall into bad habits? I myself fell into suger drinking and suger eating as it was one of the very few things giving me joy in my life. Your joy is to look down on them? Have you no shame? I myself had no idea of the consequences it would bring me, how shallow people truly are.

When I did got conscious about what I was doing to my body and myself and how people judge me for who I am based solely on my physical body, I got the attitude of "I will show them, I will show the entire world what I am cape able of, cause people have truly no idea of who I am"
PolAmKrakow 1 | 590
10 Nov 2020 #3,683
@Mr Grunwald
You have one body, one life. Your choice to treat it how you like. We all have choices, some good some not so good. Justice. Yes. If you dont take care of yourself, then that is simply on you. Live or die with the consequences. I used to smoke, I quit. Five years later if I got lung cancer I have no one to blame but myself.
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
10 Nov 2020 #3,684
Yes there is always the bad news - but it does seem a more plausible way forward than closing everything for everyone forever. Of course there will be issues with it but we are on the right track surely.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
10 Nov 2020 #3,685
So, you refuse to acknowledge the surge in death rate due to covid

I don't refuse to acknowledge the surge in the death rate in Poland and in Europe.

It is caused by the disproportionate reaction to Chinese flu not and by the virus itself. Many of those patients with serious illness who should be operated on were effectively killed by the health system overwhelmed with corona flu cases and hospitals converted to accommodate "covid" patients only.

And many others were scared off by the "deadly pandemic" propaganda and didn't even seek treatment. And now they are boosting death rate statistics.

Politicians and "experts" should be held responsible for all of that once the "pandemic" is over. They have blood on their hands and now it's too late for them to say that they were wrong because they would have to face serious consequences.
mafketis 24 | 9,385
10 Nov 2020 #3,686
A quick note to repeat (for the Nth time)

Back about 10 years ago Angela Merkel held up stingy German housewives as a role model for national governments to try to get the public to accept austerity - it didn't work.

A couple of years ago Saint Greta of Thunberg was hauled out to yell at people in a comically overwrought fashion and shame them into staying put and forgetting about being able to fly across the continent in an effort to get the public to accept austerity - it didn't work.

Now, by scaring the public with a virus that (according to the WHO itself) kills maybe one in 750 people who get it they're trying to get the public to accept austerity - and it's not working entirely but it's working better than anything they've tried so far.

The goal of remote learning isn't to educate children-young adults, it's to get the public to accept that some people (who can't afford state of the art digital equipment) don't deserve education.

The goal of lockdowns is to punish those who want to run their own business rather than work unstable gig jobs like uber. Notice that no government in Europe (nor the EU) has anything like a good plan on how to help small business people - that's because they don't want to help them they want to drive them out of business to benefit the giants like amazon.

They didn't create the virus for that reason but that's what they're using it for.
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
10 Nov 2020 #3,687
How are they getting people to accept austerity ? - the precise opposite is happening. almost every government has been printing money and giving it away like crazy for the last 8 months. Many countries including Poland and the UK are running record deficits in trying to keep the economy going.
mafketis 24 | 9,385
10 Nov 2020 #3,688
every government has been printing money and giving it away like crazy for the last 8 months

And how much did you receive?
johnny reb 28 | 5,326
10 Nov 2020 #3,689
They didn't create the virus for that reason but that's what they're using it for.

Spot on maf, and don't forget the political aspect of convenience either.
If President Trump would have created the vaccine a month sooner I'm sure they couldn't have cheated to win.
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
10 Nov 2020 #3,690
700 zloty

I think Trumps contributions to Covid science included drinking Dettol and sitting in bright light. A good job we were not waiting for his next bright idea.


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