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Coronavirus in Poland


pawian 176 | 14,299
28 Oct 2020 #3,571
even if the parents receive extra money for taking care of a disabled child (say 2000 PLN monthly)

Have you dropped from the moon? What are you talking about? The cost of care of a disabled child can amount to 100.000 yearly - stick your lousy 2000 monthy into your ......... you know what, that will satisfy you much more than those families. It is beggar`s money.

How about spending this money instead on improving the health sector....hospital upgrades....training medical staff to look after Covid patients.

Yes, exactly.
https://polishforums.com/news/pis-better-spend-billions-instead-85135/
gumishu 11 | 5,604
28 Oct 2020 #3,572
cost of care of a disabled child can amount to 100.000 yearly

where do you get this figure from?

you could do a lot with 24 million yearly...

24 million yearly - let's see - there are 150 thousands of doctors and 300 thousands of nurses in Poland - to simplify the calculation 450 thousand medical staff - let's divide 2 million monthly by 450 000 beneficientaries of payrise - sounds like they would earn 5 zloties/PLN more every month - that really is a considerable amount

- as for training TVP claims some National Guards were trained to help replace medical staff in some roles (say physically obtaining saliva for covid testing) - I haven't seen debunking of the information anywhere but I have a bit of mistrust as to TVP claims (like how many guards were trained, for how long etc) - other than that training of doctors and nurses takes years last I checked
OP Braveheart16 18 | 253
29 Oct 2020 #3,573
gumishu - as for training TVP claims some National Guards were trained to help replace medical staff in some roles

Not enough.....I am not convinced that there are sufficient numbers of National Guards who are trained to care for Covid patients....you may think it takes years but I suspect it can be done sooner and anyway this is quite a good time to start (its called planning for the future)...Poland should take the lead from other health services in Europe if they need guidance.....

gumishu - sounds like they would earn 5 zloties/PLN more every month

This is rather a simplistic way to calculate rewards for medical staff and there are ways to incentivize workers in the medical sector....you don't have to pay every single one at the outset....providing adequate PPE is a start....working conditions is another....the idea is to make their lives more fulfilling whilst they provide an essential role in very challenging conditions.....they deserve more than they are getting.....more respect and thanks for the work they do would be a start, because one day your life may depend on their skills.....
mafketis 24 | 9,374
29 Oct 2020 #3,574
am not convinced that there are sufficient numbers of National Guards who are trained to care for Covid patients...

Surely they would be used to do routine tasks away from covid patients in order to free up staff who are qualified..... but this is PiS so who knows....

PiS has deliberately chosen to not increase funding for healthcare for several years (and their supporters pathetically said 'it'll happen, just give it time' )

I can't fault the government much in it's handling of the first wave, but since June it has totally screwed the pooch 'hope for the best plan for the worst' is an idea that no one in PiS seems to understand 'hope for the best and plan that way too' is more their speed.
gumishu 11 | 5,604
29 Oct 2020 #3,575
This is rather a simplistic way to calculate rewards for medical staff and there are ways to incentivize workers in the medical sector.

you don't agree with math? ok - anyway medical staff who are involved in fighting covid will get double their current payment according to a covid bill which has just been passed
amiga500 2 | 222
30 Oct 2020 #3,576
Is it time to go into lockdown like France or lockdown lite like Germany? It seems inevitable and better to suffer the economic pain now than wait few weeks till hospitals are overwhelmed and there is general apocalypse.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 590
30 Oct 2020 #3,577
No lockdown will happen. Let natural selection keep working. PiS has killed their own old and sick voting base. We all knew numbers were rising in the beginning of September, they did nothing. It's too late to put toothpaste back in the tube.
pawian 176 | 14,299
30 Oct 2020 #3,578
Yes, and they are even fuelling the death rate by provoking people to go onto streets. Murderers.
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
30 Oct 2020 #3,579
If we had to have a lockdown then rather start now. But it's only worth it if there is a strategy and the govt has its best resources focused on the health service. I don't know if this government has any "best resources" - it's filled with yes men, weird careerists and the odd rural soltys.

A huge problem is that the first useless lockdown has emptied the Polish treasury.
amiga500 2 | 222
30 Oct 2020 #3,580
has emptied the Polish treasury.

One ace we have in the pack, is that we have sovereign control over our currency. So the reserve bank can create money out of thin air, or buy bonds and directly finance the polish goverment, as opposed to the goverment buying bonds ie debt on international markets. Whilst radical and unorthodox this method has already been utilised temporarily in the U.K during the first wave.

economist.com/britain/2020/04/18/why-the-bank-of-england-is-directly-financing-the-deficit
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
30 Oct 2020 #3,581
That article is from April - since then UK has run up a record deficit. UK taxpayers will pay for that sooner or later

It's also been tried by Mr Gierek with rather different results.

You can play around with govt finances for a few months but not much longer, after that inflation is the inevitable result - every zloty the govt spends has either already been earned or needs to be earned later.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 590
30 Oct 2020 #3,582
What about the 20 million that the former minister of health paid to the company for respirators who only delivered 8 million worth and that company just happens to be owned by one of his friends? Another PiS corruption shocker. sarcasm font
Spike31 2 | 2,109
30 Oct 2020 #3,583
So I've heard that France will initiate a second 'total lockdown'. A mandatory muzzle is not enough anymore, one needs a certificate to leave the house.

I can't imagine what would happen if we had a real pandemic in Europe and not just this corona flu situation.

Thank you, Britain for being relatively normal in this increasingly paranoid world.

I'm just waiting for that moment when increasing social frustration will outweigh the fear of the flu. Even governments plus mass media and "experts" cannot keep the mob in fear forever.



amiga500 2 | 222
30 Oct 2020 #3,584
after that inflation is the inevitable result

Well we've had massive deficit spending the since March, and inflation has not gone up. As long as the economic growth rate outpaces the interest rate on bonds/debt (and its the lowest in history) then the debt is sustainable. This is the perfect time for massive Keynesian government spending.
mafketis 24 | 9,374
30 Oct 2020 #3,585
The government announced _today_ that cemeteries will be closed (presumably this will not apply Pan Prezes) which means massive economic losses for those selling flowers and candles there...

I'm sure there will be no government help for them either....

msp.money.pl/wiadomosci/cmentarze-beda-zamkniete-odwiedzilismy-warszawska-nekropolie-grobowa-atmosfera-6570280900344512a.html

Chaotic predatory politicians don't care....
pawian 176 | 14,299
30 Oct 2020 #3,586
massive economic losses for those selling flowers and candles there...

Not only. Warsaw Mayor has just announced the city spent 1 million to prepare the city transport for the holiday.

PiS are not only morons, but even worse - lost and chaotic morons. It isn`t a mistake, it is a crime what they are doing.

Hey, forum supporters of PIS who voted for them during Presidential elections? Where the fekk are you when your pets are ruining Poland? Are you still glad LGBT has been contained????
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
30 Oct 2020 #3,587
@mafketis
Predators that hunt, and are being hunted

@pawian
I will pray for Poland this evening, so that brotherly blood won't be spilled. I'll pray for the chairmen Kaczyński and for all politicians in Poland for them to cool their brains, love Poland with their hearts and talk. Solve this solution without bloodshed

Ponoć wystarczająco krwi się wylała w Rzeczpospolitej
Ziemowit 13 | 4,279
30 Oct 2020 #3,588
I'll pray for the chairmen Kaczyński

Chairman Kaczyński (Duck Prince) is not the kind of person to listen to common sense when it comes to the question of retaining his political power. Some say he deliberatery gave orders to the Constitutional Tribunal to pass a ruling which would bring people out onto the streets. He knew perfectly well such a ruling will do precisely this (as there were precedences over issues close to this ruling before). He will now be able to blame protesters for an even bigger scale of the pandemic in some two week time. At the moment, there are no spare hospital beds for Covid patients in Mazovia.
jon357 66 | 17,040
30 Oct 2020 #3,589
He will now be able to blame protesters for an even bigger scale of the pandemic in some two week time

I suspect that even he didn't expect the scale of the protests.

there are no spare hospital beds for Covid patients in Mazovia.

Military field hospitals have been set up to cope with the excess demand for beds.

It's getting serious here.
mafketis 24 | 9,374
30 Oct 2020 #3,590
He knew perfectly well

I don't think he's that smart. His filmed reactions are those of an out-of-touch old man who genuinely doesn't understand the younger generation (and I don't think he's that good an actor).
johnny reb 28 | 5,307
31 Oct 2020 #3,591
It's getting serious here.

Then let's lighten it up from Covid joe Biden's long dark depressing winter to a grin.
Sister to big Brother: That stupid teacher doesn't know sht about Math, Spelling or History ! I even smelled vodka on her breath, cheap vodka !

Big Brother to Little sister: Awe come on Sis, Mom is doing the best she can.
jon357 66 | 17,040
31 Oct 2020 #3,592
an out-of-touch old man

He seems to live in a bubble of supporters. Not unusual for politicians here.
mafketis 24 | 9,374
31 Oct 2020 #3,593
If people here read just one article on covid this week/month it should be this:

tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/china-covid-lockdown-propaganda

I haven't digested all of it yet, but it fits the facts as we known them at least as well if not better than the official narratives...
amiga500 2 | 222
1 Nov 2020 #3,594
youtu.be/LsNW-wyGOTc?t=2085 Good debate between two polish proffessors re Lockdown or no Lockown. Intersting point made at the end that if the goverment introduces a lockdown now, it will be seen as stifling political dissent rather than stifling the virus.
Spike31 2 | 2,109
1 Nov 2020 #3,595
I haven't digested all of it yet

It's an interesting read
pawian 176 | 14,299
1 Nov 2020 #3,596
it will be seen as stifling political dissent rather than stifling the virus.

Of course. And people will resist for obvious reasons, so it will be completely useless.

A different view - I read an article that PiS has unofficially adopted the Swedish approach - with so many shortages and understaffed hospitals, now they are aiming at developing herd immunity and if some people die, that`s their problem, not the government`s.
amiga500 2 | 222
1 Nov 2020 #3,597
I haven't digested all of it yet, but it fits the facts as we known them

Tablet is a Jewish publication, whilst I agree with the views on the Chinese goverment , they are reaching for straws with the lockdown was a lie angle. If they think they are so smart why was the Israeli government the first to introduce a second wave nation-wide lockdown on 14 September?
mafketis 24 | 9,374
1 Nov 2020 #3,598
PiS has unofficially adopted the Swedish approach - ... if some people die, that`s their problem, not the government`s.

Like I said that's the only approach that works long term. Treat it like driving a car. We accept that traffic accidents happen and some people will die in them even as we try to do what we can to reduce the numbers and make sure we're not casualties ourselves.

It's known that the virus primarily transmits from prolonged contact indoors with poor ventilation. Early worries about long distance transmission (droplets hanging around in the air for hours) or contact infection from door handles and the like were strongly exaggerated.

Lockdowns just increase the conditions that it spreads in (while simultaneously weakening people's immune systems). And there's no reason to believe that any government would used temporarily reduced infection numbers to shore up the healthcare system because that's not how elected politicians think.... anywhere.

I was in favor (or not opposed) to the original lockdown but in retrospect it was probably a mistake.
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
1 Nov 2020 #3,599
I don't expect the government to give me a cast iron guarantee I will survive Pawian - for me I'm just as likely to have a stroke or heart attack as die from Covid. But dying is just a case of when not if.

I can put up with a few more weeks of this but after that I'm happy to take my chances. I do expect the govt to do their best to have drugs and ambulances but there will be some deaths however well presented they are
Spike31 2 | 2,109
2 Nov 2020 #3,600
Ladies and Gentlemen

Cristiano Ronaldo, the "victim" of corona in great form today.

youtube.com/watch?v=4b3iUsorCrc&ab_channel=DREI

PS: stay at home, keep the distance, don't visit your grandma, don't hug your aunt, keep away from cemeteries. Thank you for your cooperation, citizens of the new normality.


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