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Coronavirus in Poland


dolnoslask 6 | 3,193
8 Oct 2020 #3,331
Lets hope the police are going to be proactive in enforcing non compliance

Oh they are taking it seriously read below

polsatnews.pl/wiadomosc/2020-10-08/mandaty-za-brak-maseczki-bedzie-rozporzadzenie-resortu-zdrowia/?ref=aside_najnowsze

Plus the government has announced that 10,000 respirators are available, plus reserves if needed
cms neuf - | 1,850
8 Oct 2020 #3,333
Its ludicrous - maybe a 100 zloty fine is fair enough but no idea what they want to achieve with the macho mask fining.

I will wear mine in shops, office and on public transport. Rest of the time I'm not going to bother.
in the 128 - | 3
8 Oct 2020 #3,334
The new case thing is indeed the headline, but these are not new cases, but PCR positives, I had hoped that Poland would keep out of this casedemic game. I wonder how ICU and mortality rates are, I miss the daily updates on this thread.
mafketis 24 | 8,851
8 Oct 2020 #3,335
I miss the daily updates on this thread.

Well today...

8 died of covid

68 of covid and some other disease

I'm glad the government is now separating out the two.

You can follow daily updates on the Ministry of Health's twitter feed (and some help from google translate)

twitter.com/MZ_GOV_PL

Every day at 10.00 they release basic info on hospitalization, ventilator usage and number cured

At 10.30 they release the breakdowns of how many new cases and how many fatalities (with age, sex and location)

At around 11.00 they release how many tests

The correlation for the last few days has been about 10 % (give or take a bit) of the number tested are positive though I don't know the criteria for being tested. I've read that all hospital admissions are being tested and that's jumped the numbers a bit (though the second wave has now really started).
in the 128 - | 3
8 Oct 2020 #3,336
Thanks matketis, I will keep my eye on that link. There is no gold standard test, so around the globe its a PT-PCR with local versions perhaps on numbers of cycles, knowing the overall testing rates to false positives via actual cases has a bearing to some of us against what is going down with the illness. I normally look at Euro Momo, but Poland is not part of that system, perhaps you know where year on year mortality data could be found? Anyhow thanks for the update and where to look, its very helpful.
Spike31 3 | 1,905
8 Oct 2020 #3,337
Lets hope the police are going to be proactive in enforcing non compliance

Hold your horses, comrade :-)

The quickly written "covid law" is flawed and the only hope of law enforcement is that most people don't know their rights.
A law from 2008 clarifies that:

Article. 46b
4)

isap.sejm.gov.pl/isap.nsf/download.xsp/WDU20082341570/U/D20081570Lj.pdf


To lawfully force someone to wear a mask it must be proved beforehand that such person was infected or that the group of people/individuals were exposed to high risk of getting infected. And then they can be tested for infection and put under medical procedures, but only if they are coronaflu 'positive'. Furthermore if test results are 'negative' they cannot be lawfully forced to wear dust masks.

It cannot be just assumed that every single citizen is infected and as such everyone must wear mighty [dust]masks.

Simps will wear it out of fear and/or ignorance. But many others will protest and will take it to the court.
bruceli
9 Oct 2020 #3,338
51 news reports said that the number of deaths from the new crown pneumonia in the United States is approaching 90,000. The main reason is that the health of Americans, especially minority communities, directly dumps the colored people. info.51.ca/news/world/2020-05/889137.html
johnny reb 28 | 5,047
9 Oct 2020 #3,339
Hold your horses, comrade :-)

That's right as Poland has a new approach to the virus.
All the retired Nuns in Poland are being called back to "enforce" social distancing with their meter sticks.
mafketis 24 | 8,851
9 Oct 2020 #3,340
Random testing in Chicago reveals 20% have antibodies...

chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-antibody-testing-chicago-rate-northwestern-20201009-jxzpyewzlrcgnny2fyflupqdcq-story.html

This is in line with other randomized tests which consistently show far more people have been exposed than previously imagined...
pawian 173 | 13,530
9 Oct 2020 #3,341
All the retired Nuns in Poland are being called back

Why did you associate horses with nuns? Strange connection.
mafketis 24 | 8,851
10 Oct 2020 #3,342
It's an American stereotype (nuns as very strict teachers in catholic schools). It doesn't exist in Poland of course....
jgrabner 1 | 75
10 Oct 2020 #3,343
Monthly deaths in Poland 2000/01 until week 31 of this year:

Zgony według miesięcy

source: ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/population-demography-migration-projections/data/database?node_code=demomwk
source-source: stat.gov.pl/obszary-tematyczne/ludnosc/ludnosc/zgony-wedlug-tygodni,39,1.html

for comparison Sweden, last 170 years:

Monthly deaths Sweden

source: twitter.com/VoidSurf1/status/1313781479172964357/photo/1
jgrabner 1 | 75
10 Oct 2020 #3,344
actually its weekly data for Poland, not monthly, but the data is compressed enough to not make a significant difference
Poland is upward, Sweden downward sloping. I guess the difference results from immigration, which picked up in Sweden in the 90s and turned negative in PL at the same time.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,193
10 Oct 2020 #3,345
I was reading an article about the younger the children the more they spread the virus.

It does appear that the recent upsurge of the coronavirus is linked to return to school and universities, I think that they should be kept away until this virus is over , a couple of years of missed education won't hurt them , achievers will always find a way, plenty of learning resource on the internet no need for them to be out infecting all and sunder.
cms neuf - | 1,850
10 Oct 2020 #3,346
So that means 2 years of most people being unable to work

Your kids are probably grown up. Try keeping them in the house for two weeks, never mind two years

Is there any evidence clearly linking this to schools compared to all the other things that opened in September - pubs, public transport, offices etc

Grabner - aren't your graphs showing different things? One is showing deaths per million and the other one is showing the absolute number of deaths ?
Atch 17 | 3,305
10 Oct 2020 #3,347
Is there any evidence clearly linking this to schools compared to all the other things that opened in September

No. Quite the opposite in fact. However universities are a different kettle of fish, which is why most of them are using online delivery where possible.

a couple of years of missed education won't hurt them , achievers will always find a way,

I can't agree with that Dolno. Having spent many years teaching in disadvantaged settings, school is not just about book learning and achievement. For children with a deprived home enviroment, either social or economic or both, it's a vital source of some stability in their lives and very important to their mental health. But even, if you look at it from a purely academic point of view, primary school children require structure in their learning. They are not capable of designing their own syllabus from the internet and neither are their parents in most cases. Even well educated parents struggle with home-schooling children because it's not their area of expertise. Two years of randomly learning bits and pieces of this and that will affect the average child - and most kids are average, not 'achievers' - quite significantly.

Keeping schools open should be a priority.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,193
10 Oct 2020 #3,348
Keeping schools open should be a priority.

Which in turn will fuel the epidemic, sometimes the few need to make sacrifices for the good of the many, It may do society good if we have a generation that goes down the skills path and not the academic.

It will be good to have more bricklayers, electricians, plumbers, certainly where I live.
Cargo pants 2 | 616
10 Oct 2020 #3,349
5300 cases today here in Poland,I just got my new oximeter delivered.
Lenka 3 | 2,188
10 Oct 2020 #3,350
sometimes the few need to make sacrifices for the good of the many,

Which is exactly why schools should stay open.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,193
10 Oct 2020 #3,351
Non , but more guilds/skills centres could be opened later to give them all a chance of a trade, we need skills more than academics that's for sure.

Plenty of workers who have lost their jobs are having to retrain, people need to adapt to the new covid environment .
Lenka 3 | 2,188
10 Oct 2020 #3,352
need skills more than academics that's for sure.

Hmm, considering society goes more and more towards robotics relating on your brain for work seems more reliable long term
dolnoslask 6 | 3,193
10 Oct 2020 #3,353
goes more and more towards robotics

That is all a long way away,

meet sam

youtube.com/watch?v=6s17IAj-XpU

Still need brickies and techies to do his job.
cms neuf - | 1,850
10 Oct 2020 #3,354
If people want to be plumbers or bricklayers Then nothing is stopping them - It's pretty good money and I think there are plenty of people that still train for that.

If there are too many of them then they're not gonna make money.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,193
10 Oct 2020 #3,355
Just like academics'

I am amazed that the current mob have not found a solution for coronavirus .
cms neuf - | 1,850
10 Oct 2020 #3,356
Yeah, it's been 9 months now - you would have thought one of these eggheads would have isolated the problem, invented and tested a medicine and monitored the side effects.
Atch 17 | 3,305
10 Oct 2020 #3,357
Which in turn will fuel the epidemic

There is really no evidence to suggest that's the case. There was a report about this on Irish news over the last couple of days and the facts are that schools are not fuelling the epidemic.

I understand the reasoning that children will get infected and then spread it by taking it home to adults and older people. But the stats show that children are not at increased risk of infection when at school. Therefore there is no reason to keep them at home in order to slow or stop the spread of the virus.

In Ireland the proportion of cases found among the four- to 18-year-old age group has remained steady since August, at between 14.1% and 14.3% of all Covid cases.

The Department of Education said testing at the 236 schools has led to the detection of an additional 90 cases of the virus. This equates to a rate of 1.5%. The comparable rate when similar mass testing has taken place in the community stands at 6%.

Similarly, where testing of close contacts (of confirmed cases linked to the school) identifies additional cases of Covid-19, many of these are found to have had exposure to the disease outside of the school.

It said there have been relatively few instances where transmission of Covid-19 within a school is strongly suspected by HSE Public Health.

So schools are not hotbeds of viral infection, neither in Ireland or Poland. The virus behaves the same way everywhere.

It may do society good if we have a generation that goes down the skills path and not the academic.

I'm in complete agreement with that. I think we have far too many degrees and third level studies and not enough vocational training. But even in the old days in the UK, kids got a decent, all round grounding up till the age of fifteen or so and they still need that. Basic solid literacy and maths skills are still desirable. The idea that children don't need an education because they're going to be a chippy or a bricky is a bit much.
Spike31 3 | 1,905
10 Oct 2020 #3,358
An optimistic video today [for Polish speakers]. In youth we trust.

twitter.com/Mateusz_lski/status/1314603234196107269

we need skills more than academics that's for sure

Are you saying that we cannot utilize all those "gender studies"and "sociology" graduates? In big cities there are plenty of cafeterias and each one of them needs at least one full-time barista for a minimum wage career :-P
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,635
10 Oct 2020 #3,359
Poland has less cases and deaths than just one large US city like Chicago or NYC... and now theyre forcing people to wear masks even outdoors.. idk why governments all around the world are being so big nanny with this whole covid thing especially Poland. They're being really strict, too much so if you ask me. And now masks outdoors? This is about the same level of idiocy as the cali governor telling people to take their mask on and off between bites as you eat.
pawian 173 | 13,530
10 Oct 2020 #3,360
idk why governments all around the world are being so big nanny with this whole covid thing especially Poland.

They just want to show they are doing sth, so that people won`t accuse them of idleness.


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