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Coronavirus in Poland


mafketis 24 | 9,385
30 Sep 2020 #3,271
for you his death is irrelevant?

Your assignment: Look up the meaning of the term "psychological projection" and write a 100 word essay on how helpful you think it is in policy discussions....

Another lockdown ?

I really hope it doesn't come to that.... because there would be no medical reason for it and it would be devastating for the Polish economy.

My suggestion: We treat this like any other danger.

We accept that some number of people will die in automobile accidents every year. Do we outlaw cars? No, we try to make sure people are aware of the dangers, encourage them to minimize risk and do what we can to prevent excessive risk with a license system, anti-drunk driving laws etc. Still, despite that some people are involved in fatal accidents (some through their own negligence some through no fault of their own) and the world doesn't stop.

We should do what we can to protect the vulnerable (esp older and/or already ill) and inform people of how to minimize risk (beyond bizarre artifical things like social distancing) and get on with it.

Instead, the vulnerable aren't being protected and everybody else is expected to live in a highly artificial and dysphoric manner... tha'ts dumb and counter-productive.
kondzior 12 | 1,200
30 Sep 2020 #3,272
"psychological projection"

If it was up to me, the lockdown would have been still in effect, all the way from the March, up until 14 days without any new cases. And the borders should stay shut indefinitely, till the chinavirus is eradicated worldwide.
Lenka 3 | 2,577
30 Sep 2020 #3,273
no medical reason for it and it would be devastating for the Polish economy.

Well, the government said there is no chance of second lockdown. The question is whether we trust them :)

We should do what we can to protect the vulnerable (esp older and/or already ill)

And not surprisingly the gov fails there. Example: a school for kids with special needs didn't get permission to go hybrid!
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
30 Sep 2020 #3,274
If we were still in full lockdown then there would be 4-5 million jobless, not much food and no money to pay doctors and nurses for several years in the future. Piles would be looking back to 1981 or 1990 as a happy memory.

Borders shut indefinitely would be nuts - we need cars, equipment, chemicals, petrol, fruit etc

We will never have zero cases for 14 days.

I have no problem wearing a mask or keeping my distance but that's it.
johnny reb 28 | 5,328
30 Sep 2020 #3,275
Now fatalities are divided into covid only and covid + (other illness)

And what happens if the China virus mutates with the common flu to create the China Plague that wipes out the world ?
The best thing we can do is look right at people who refuse to social distance or wear a masks and say, "It's ass holes like you that are spreading this stuff !"

We have to keep the economy open, like it or not.
jon357 66 | 17,068
30 Sep 2020 #3,276
I have no problem wearing a mask or keeping my distance but that's it.

Most people don't; it's the few irresponsible ones who cause the problem. I've been staying at home, however when I did go into the city centre one evening, I was amazed at the bars being packed full of people, no masks, no distancing.
johnny reb 28 | 5,328
30 Sep 2020 #3,277
I've been staying at home

Likewise jon.
I have been canning salsa and organic vegetables from the Amish farms around here.
They make wonderful Christmas presents.

I was amazed at the bars being packed full of people, no masks, no distancing.

Same here jon, in fact it was just on the news that alcohol consumption is up 40%.
Sounds like Poland is suffering from the virus fatigue too.
And the stupid part is that they have said that bars and restaurants are the #1 place to get the virus !

Here is a helpful hint for everyone !
Start taking 4000 to 5000iu of vitamin D3 per day. (Very inexpensive)
A new study out found that 77% of people testing positive for the virus suffered from lack of vitamin D3.
Sunshine makes D3 naturally but in the winter with lots of gray days and being fully clothed you just don't get enough sunshine.
Vitamin D3 helps support your immune system.
I also take the vitamin Zinc (50 mg a day) which is also a dietary supplement to boost your immune system. (Very inexpensive)
We will make it thru this together by being smart and by being patient until a 'tried and true' vaccine is available.
mafketis 24 | 9,385
30 Sep 2020 #3,278
Is there a problem? I can't post the daily numbers update....

I get the message: "This page was removed or moved to another location."
jon357 66 | 17,068
30 Sep 2020 #3,279
Same here jon, in fact it was just on the news that alcohol consumption is up 40%.

That seems to be mirrored in a lot of places.

In the UK they've started closing pubs at 10pm, which means that everyone goes out at the same time and then some of them buy alcohol in the shops, all at the same time and no social distancing. At least the rules say you have to stay in groups of 6 or fewer; though I doubt every pub enforces that.

In Poland I see quite big groups in restaurants. Halloween and Andrzejki (about a month apart) could be a problem.

vitamin

A friend who's a doctor here strongly recommends taking multivitamins. I also take Omega 3 fatty acid and sometimes cod liver oil (called tran in Poland and a traditional supplement).
Roibeard79 2 | 42
30 Sep 2020 #3,280
In the UK they've started closing pubs at 10pm

They started this in Poland also in yellow zones I believe?
pawian 176 | 14,299
30 Sep 2020 #3,281
sometimes cod liver oil (called tran in Poland and a traditional supplement).

Yes, I drink it straight from the bottle. Pure unflavoured tran.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
30 Sep 2020 #3,282
Elon Musk called Bill Gates a "knucklehead" on Monday and insisted he won't take a coronavirus vaccine.

"In the grand scheme of things, we have something with a very low mortality rate and high contagion," he said.

thesun.co.uk/news/12803321/elon-musk-bill-gates-knucklehead-coronavirus-vaccine/
pawian 176 | 14,299
30 Sep 2020 #3,283
which evens out to about one in ten who died of covid alone

But Spike claimed it was impossible that covid kills on its own. My dilemma who to believe were strictly connected with his suggestions.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
30 Sep 2020 #3,284
But Spike claimed it was impossible that covid kills on its own

I never claimed that it was impossible. Yet if you insist otherwise provide a direct quote from my post in which I'm saying that.

Unless you are simply trolling and/or testing my memory then you should state it in post scriptum like PS: 'just trolling, don't mind me'.

Coronaflu mortality rate are very low and most death cases are connected to other diseases which killed patients who were tested positive for chinese flu aka covid19

"It should be noted that the total number of deaths is 1,844. However, according to the information as of August 11, 2020, the number of people who died without comorbidities was 296, the Ministry of Health reported."

cai24.pl/polska/11287/to-prawdziwa-liczba-ofiar-oto-liczba-osob-bez-chorob-wspolistniejacych-ktore-zmarly-na-koronawirusa/

Over 6 months of a "deadly pandemic" in a 38 000 000 country and have 300 direct casualties. We are all going to die...(unless)
jon357 66 | 17,068
30 Sep 2020 #3,285
Yes, I drink it straight from the bottle.

Brings back grim childhood memories of spoonfuls of it. I prefer the capsules.

An interesting theory here about why some people are affected more than others:
huffpost.com/entry/covid-19-neanderthal-dna_n_5f74a8edc5b6374c5587ef63?ncid=engmodushpmg00000006
Atch 17 | 3,427
1 Oct 2020 #3,286
"It should be noted that the total number of deaths is 1,844

Your information is out of date. Today the number is 2,513.

Bottom line is that I would prefer NOT to catch the virus, than catch it. Firstly, I might be one of the unlucky ones without co-morbidities who ends up seriously ill or I might infect somebody I love and care about and cause them to die.

Yesterday, the Irish health service executive gave a briefing at which they gave a very interesting breakdown of the transmission of the virus within one small group of people over a weekend. It's incredible how contagious this virus is.

Bascially, a couple went on a trip away and when they arrived back on day one of the weekend, they attended a house party, which had eight people at it.

Out of this number, six people became positive with the virus.

The couple then stayed overnight with a family and in this household, three out of the four members of the household became positive for the virus.

Also, three further social contacts of the family tested positive for coronavirus.

On the second day of the weekend, one of the couple went with another group of friends for a dinner party into the town centre. At that party, there were four people and all four tested positive for the virus.

The conference heard that at the premises where the dinner party was, a table adjacent to the party had six people, all of whom became positive for the virus.

Four members of staff at the bar/restaurant also tested positive for Covid-19.

The index case with another friend then went to another drinks venue to meet a party of four for drinks, and all four became positive.

"This demonstrates that over two days in a weekend, how quickly the virus can spread and the importance to restrict your social interactions," Dr Smyth said.

"If you were to halve your social interactions and go out one night at the weekend - that would help greatly."

So, it's not a question of living like a hermit, but of trying to keep your contacts down in order to control the spread.

And we should all remember that people with underlying conditions are not all at death's door. Many of them would have many years of reasonable quality of life ahead of them. A person in their sixties with diabetes for example, who takes their meds, follows their dietary plan etc can have a happy, productive life.
mafketis 24 | 9,385
1 Oct 2020 #3,287
So, it's not a question of living like a hermit, but of trying to keep your contacts down in order to control the spread.

Magic thinking - if we behave the right way the virus god will show us mercy!

I'm now thinking the original lockdowns should never have happened because they caused too many otherwise intelligent people to think that the spread could be stopped. It can't. It can be delayed a bit and that's it.

Any slowing of human contact means contracting the economy which means lots of other secondary effects. Note that no government (national or supranational) has done much of anything to soften the economic damage...

It also means more people dying of other causes as they stay away from doctors while they futilely try to control the spread.

If fear of the virus makes you stay home then stay home (as much as possible) but stopping the spread will be a Pyrrhic victory if there's no economy or jobs left....
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
1 Oct 2020 #3,288
Sure I can stay at home and do Netflix for a night - I actually quite got to enjoy it.

Won't be good for pubs or cafes though - cliches aside imagine a Irish life without the pub or Vienna without its cafes.

If it were that contagious then school means we are all doomed - using your numbers and assuming waiters can get it from their customers it would only take one pupil or teacher to get it and there would be millions of cases from schools, supermarkets, trams, hospitals. Drinking for fun is a choice but those activities are all essential.

I don't want to catch it either but I need to put food on the table and a roof over my kids heads
mafketis 24 | 9,385
1 Oct 2020 #3,289
If it were that contagious then school means we are all doomed

The conditions it spreads in are more or less understood (indoors in close proximity for extended periods) why people are acting like it's some great mystery.... is a mystery.

I'm more and more liking Sweden's approach (minus its cavalier attitude toward the elderly, especially those in care homes, though to be honest no other country has done significantly better).

Think of getting through covid like going in an unheated swimming pool.

Sweden: Dives in, the initial shock is large but soon recovered from.

Everywhere else: One two at a time, stretching out the discomfort for as long as possible in some kind of insane effort to immerse oneself without getting wet...
kondzior 12 | 1,200
1 Oct 2020 #3,290
Poland allowed children to go to school on daily study. Day 31.
1967 new cases. A new record.
mafketis 24 | 9,385
1 Oct 2020 #3,291
1967 new cases. A new record.

Of a fairly useless metric..... hospitalization is up but still well below the later April peak as are fatalities... though only one of the 30 fatalities today did not have comorbidities (and that person was 92 years old....).

The mods apparently don't want me to post daily updates anymore so I won't. I'll just chime in with the occasional bucket of cold water to splash in the face of Panic **** addicts....
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
1 Oct 2020 #3,292
Kondzior - what do you think the kids should be doing ? They already lost 4 months school plus the strike the year before.
johnny reb 28 | 5,328
1 Oct 2020 #3,293
When the schools were closed here the students were at the soccer fields, skate board parks and Malls without masks or social distancing so what's the difference if they are in school where their body temperatures are taken daily, things have been disinfected non-stop and masks are required ?
PolAmKrakow 1 | 590
1 Oct 2020 #3,294
@kondzior
How many of those new cases are students and teachers? Maybe that would be some useful information since raw numbers are worthless.
pawian 176 | 14,299
1 Oct 2020 #3,295
and/or testing my memory then you should state it

No, I am not testing your memory, it only seemed to me you said so coz in every post you downplay and ridicule the panic about the virus. Correct, you never said it directly, I assumed it by reading such remarks of yours:

It's not coronavirus that would kill us all but mass shootings on the streets over a roll of toilet paper :-)

But accusing me of trolling instantly? Why are you so cruel and brutal? Are you still this delicate gentle Spike as we knew him before? Probably not. They replaced you!!! True Spike has fallen down with the china flu and they are feeding us with the replacement! I knew it!

Brings back grim childhood memories of spoonfuls of it. I prefer the capsules.

Right, I didn`t like it as a child. But later I became obsessed with seafood - the fattier, the better - and I could drink this natural flavour tran like juice if not for that warning on the label about exceeding the RDA.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
1 Oct 2020 #3,296
Your information is out of date. Today the number is 2,513.

I've quoted an article which I linked with official stats from a Ministry of Health dated on August 11 (it is is clearly stated in my post) that debunked inflated mortality rates. Ministry of health had to provide those numbers by the request under access to a public information act:

"according to the information as of August 11, 2020, the number of people who died without comorbidities was 296, the Ministry of Health reported."

Read, rinse, and repeat.

it only seemed to me you said so coz in every post you downplay and ridicule the panic about the virus

It not that I downplay it but rather show the true face of "deadly pandemic" as it is and its gullible (and those cynical too) supporters
pawian 176 | 14,299
1 Oct 2020 #3,297
Still, I claim you downplay it. Look at your post about annual flu mortality rate in the USA:

Last year 35 000 people died in the US alone because of common flu.Should we stop breathing the air from now on?* ;-)

Now we know there have already been over 200.000 victims of china flu in the USA this year. And it is not its last word. What say you to that? 35.000 vs 200.000 ?
Spike31 2 | 2,110
1 Oct 2020 #3,298
What say you to that?

I say to that: "calculation methodology". Reading without understanding is pointless. Let me present it again on an example of Poland:

the total number of deaths is 1,844 (...) people who died without comorbidities was 296
[/quote]
And those are a ministry of Health numbers, not some mass media stats for simps.

If we start testing car accident victims for corona we may get even "more impressive" numbers:

"Hey look this guy has a gear stick sticking out of his head"
"Yeah, but he is also corona positive. How do you know it didn't kill him. Don't you watch TV, it's a deadly pandemic you know?"

"True to that, another victim of corona. Case closed"
johnny reb 28 | 5,328
2 Oct 2020 #3,299
Trump just tested positive for the China flu.
Being he is 74 years old and obese he is considered high risk.
As tuff as he is I am sure it will not effect him more than a common cold.
Melania has tested positive too.
Vesko Vukovic 1 | 213
2 Oct 2020 #3,300
It's incredible how contagious this virus is.

Israeli coronavirus commercial

youtu.be/AeaPimD6-10

How Covid-19 spreads PSA Israel

Well, if this really were the case then all of us would have been infected by now...


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