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Coronavirus in Poland


Atch 17 | 3,429
22 Aug 2020 #2,971
here's that article I've reffered to before:

it was ferociously attacked by @Atch

Tut, tut, Spikey, telling fibs again............

My exact response to that article was:

quote=Atch: The research refers to France, whilst your post suggests that you're talking about the UK.

and

quote= Atch: Your post is a deliberate attempt to misrepresent facts. You open by referring to deaths in the England and Wales and then omit the first part of the sentence about the research which states:

"A recent study in the southern Île-de-France region suggests confinement itself has had catastrophic consequences. In long-term care facilities with excess Covid-19 deaths, researchers found" etc.


I concluded by saying:
quote=Atch: No doubt the care home crisis across Europe will be looked into in those countries most affected and we're likely to see the facts emerge, particularly from those countries such as the UK, with a strong tradition of accountability and transparency.

Now, Spikey, my dear child, if you consider those words a 'ferocious attack', please take your embroidery, your handbag and powder puff and retreat to your boudoir :))
mafketis 24 | 9,387
22 Aug 2020 #2,972
an 'excuse' for not taking proper care of an elderly

As if westerners needed an excuse....

Many old people were abandoned in care centers

In the best of times I tend to think that in civilization terms care homes for the elderly are about a half step up from Eskimos pushing their elderly onto moving ice flows and running away...

Daily numbers for Poland

Fatalities (daily total) 13, age range 60-91, average age 76

Hospitalizations (running total) up 38 to 2189...

Respirators in use, down 5 to 79

Cured (daily total) 632 over two thirds the number of new cases...

Ratio of cured to fatalities (daily) there were 48 times more cured cases than fatalities.
pawian 176 | 14,299
22 Aug 2020 #2,973
care homes for the elderly are about a half step up from Eskimos

Yes, and that`s also practised by people who follow the so called Christian values. Shame.

PS. We took care of our senile grandpa till the very end.
pawian 176 | 14,299
22 Aug 2020 #2,974
No fekking jokes with covid in Poland. A soccer player in the local league who played two matches despite being aware of his infection was arrested for 3 months. His and rival teams too have been sent on a quarantine.

onet.pl/informacje/onetkrakow/pilkarz-wybiegl-na-boisko-mimo-zakazenia-koronawirusem-teraz-trzy-miesiace-spedzi-w/zld2cs9,79cfc278
Spike31 2 | 2,110
22 Aug 2020 #2,975
Now, Spikey, my dear child

At least there's a reaction, albeit an emotional one :-). Yes, a 'ferocious attack' was an overstatement from my side. I value your opinion and meant no harm.

I've noticed that stats and hard data I shared had less impact on this thread compared to an article with rather graphic description of an abandoned eldely left to die of thirst. I guess I will have to use logical and emotional arguments interchangeably to reach more people.

Tell me what do you think about recent 'resurrection' of 5377 coronavictims in the UK. It makes me wonder how many more [conventional] deaths were misatributed to corona out there.

As if westerners needed an excuse....

Still, all that messy paperwork, permissions and moral dilemmas...

- "You are old and useless and you're costing NHS millions of £ and you produce nothing of value anymore, may I kill you sir?
Please sing up this form and the lethal injection will follow swiftly. What, you cannot write anymore? No worries, we'll ask your children permission to send you back to your maker. Have a good day sir"...

Isn't it just easier to let defenseless old people die out of thirst en masse and blame it on corona?

And the 'public opinion' will not care. They are conditioned and to them those who are not wearing dust masks are murderers...
johnny reb 28 | 5,329
22 Aug 2020 #2,976
George Soros & Bill Gates Partner with China on Coronavirus Drug !
Read the reply's to this.

civilianintelligencenetwork.ca/2020/02/12/george-soros-bill-gates-partner-with-china-on-coronavirus-drug/
Atch 17 | 3,429
23 Aug 2020 #2,977
My position is that it's real (probably engineered and probably escaped the lab by accident)

Agreed.

Isn't it just easier to let defenseless old people die out of thirst en masse

Once again, you're telling the same porkies. The NHS did not let old people die of thirst. The abandoned care home patients, as in those abandoned by staff, that weknow of, were relatively few in number, but nonetheless shocking, and the countries where we know it happened were Spain, Italy, Germany and Canada. There is a difference between governments failing to properly support care homes during the pandemic and workers walking out and leavng patients to die, which did not occur in the UK.

stats and hard data

Take a leaf out of my book, stick to the facts as I do and stop inventing tales of mass murder by the NHS.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
23 Aug 2020 #2,978
the countries where we know it happened were Spain, Italy, Germany and Canada

It is not my intention to single out the UK and France. Especially since the UK is relatively sane country during this 'pandemic'. And yes, I do agree that this proceder was committed on a much larger scale in N.Italy.

I want to put some light on those numbers [mortality rates] of corona positive elderly patients. I'm sure that we'll hear more histories like that from Spain and Lombardia in the future.

stick to the facts as I do and stop inventing tales of mass murder by the NHS

I'm afraid you'll have to complain to The Spectator about it. You can also take them to the court if you're suspecting that they are indeed inventing facts or to put is simply: lying about it.

I'm just a humble messenger :-)
kondzior 12 | 1,200
23 Aug 2020 #2,979
WHO is now saying that Europe can fight the virus without full lockdowns and that it's essential to reopen schools,

thelocal.com/20200821/europe-can-fight-virus-without-lockdowns-who

WHO wants the infection to spread through schools and wreck the West even more. Remember? There's no human to human transmission.
It is in the WHO's interest to have a pandemic in place as it raises their profile and the $$$ they can siphon off nations. It is also in the interest of the leader of WHO to mandate Western nations open themselves to the pandemic and wreck themselves because he is bought by beijing.
Atch 17 | 3,429
23 Aug 2020 #2,980
I want to put some light on those numbers [mortality rates] of corona positive elderly patients

Then please do so.

As part of a wider argurment, regarding the true number of deaths from Covid-19, I believe what you're trying to do, but with a lot of unnecessary padding, is to suggest that many elderly people who died during the epidemic, may or may not have been infected, but died not as a direct result of the virus, but as a result of being abandoned and left to starve or die of thirst.

(But this did not happen in the UK and your posts are couched in such a way to suggest that it did. This is entirely intentional on your part and downright silly. Your arguments would be more effective if you cut out the smoke and mirrors and came straight to the point. )

So now, having established that, let's discuss it.

Fact:

Yes, some old people died in care homes in certain countries, of which the UK was not one, as a result of being abandoned by the staff. Those people may have been infected and most probably were. They are likely to have died anyway as a result of the virus but sadly they died of starvation and dehydration.

Fact:

Many people of all ages who were infected with Covid-19 had compromised immune systems due to underlying health conditions. This is a very murky area because each case would have to be looked at on an individual basis. Let's take two examples,

a) Patient has circulatory disease and it is under control. Prognosis is that the person may live for another ten years or so, in reasonable health. They catch the virus, have massive blood clotting (which is apparently a common occurence in Covid-19 patients), and die of a stroke two weeks after diagnosis. Should this death be counted as a death from Covid-19?

b) Patient has advanced lung disease. Prognosis is a year at best. They catch the virus and are dead within a week? Did they die of Covid-19?

The issue is the way in which deaths are being counted. And there appears to be no consensus on how that's being done, nor realistically can one expect that there will be one. The most one could hope for, is that at least in the EU or in the USA, where there is a certain amount of connection between health authorities and certain basic standards, that there might be some agreement on how to count deaths. Even that is not going to happen.

I'll tell you now, exactly what will happen.

For the next ten years, universities and institutions all over the developed world will get hundreds of millions in funding, to rake through all the data collected, extrapolate and come to some kind of final figures on who actually died OF Covid-19 or WITH Covid-19 and it will remain a source of disagreement and controversy for another hundred years. In the same way that Holocaust numbers are still disputed, Covid-19 deaths will also be argued for decades to come. There is no definitive answer to the question at this time and there is never likely to be.

And here endeth the Lesson - go now, to love and serve the Lord ;)
Spike31 2 | 2,110
23 Aug 2020 #2,981
your posts are couched in such a way to suggest that it did

You're mistaken. I quoted the most memorable parts from the Spectator report: it described the situation in the UK but also in the rest of Europe. Once you read the whole article everything becomes clear. You're not suspecting a conservative Spectator to be anti-British do you?

It really would make much more sense if you just read it from top to bottom instead of bringing this argument up again.

Fact:

Many people of all ages who were infected with Covid-19 had compromised immune systems due to underlying health conditions

I will not argue with those facts. Except for "of all ages" where the % of young is very low.

However, I will add important Fact #3: great many old and sick people died because the corona-panic has paralyzed the health system. So they died because of irrational reaction to corona and not from the virus itself. We'll learn about those hidden victims of corona once the global hysteria is over.
Tacitus 2 | 1,237
23 Aug 2020 #2,982
happened were Spain, Italy, Germany and Canada

I'd like a source on that having happened in any other country than Spain. Especially one for Germany.
Atch 17 | 3,429
23 Aug 2020 #2,983
You're mistaken.

No, I am not mistaken about the content of your original post.

Once you read the whole article everything becomes clear.

You know quite well that many, possibly the majority, of people who read posts on the internet, never read the articles to which those posts link. I'm one of the few who does that and I did it in the case of your post, which is how I knew that you misrepresented the facts.

% of young is very low.

Read my original statement carefully. I said 'many people of all ages who were infected with Covid-19', not who died of Covid-19. Vast numbers of young people have been infected. However, even if we were to say 'who died of Covid-19' your statement of 0% is not true.

Young is a subjective term. What do you mean by young? If you mean under thirty, then say so. However, rather than 'young', perhaps one should consider deaths, more by whether they are premature. In the normal course of life, if a person dies in their thirties or forties, that would be considered 'young', in as much as it's premature. Life expectancy in most developed nations is nearer to eighty and certainly seventy plus, without major health issues is increasingly the norm.

But, if, for the purposes of counting deaths, one counts 'young' as under thirty, then the figure is still not 0%.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
23 Aug 2020 #2,984
ossibly the majority, of people who read posts on the internet, never read the articles to which those posts link

Atch, don't blame me for the illiteracy of the masses. If more people were smarter we wouldn't have the crowd on the streets wearing dust masks and we wouldn't get stuck in ridiculous pandemic measures which are crippling the economy and limiting our civil liberties.

I do read full articles if I find a particular subject to be interesting. I also believe that sharing "juicy" bits from an article will convince more people to read it from top to bottom.

your statement of 0% is not true

I've never said that 0% of people died because of it. I claimed that actual mortality rates are much lower than the official numbers - especially due to the fact that there are many more untested corona carriers - and closer to those of Influenza mortality rates.
johnny reb 28 | 5,329
23 Aug 2020 #2,985
actual mortality rates are much lower than the official numbers -

There is no doubt to even debate that fact especially when old people and the sickly dying of natural causes are being counted as dying from the virus.

(Just like the old and sickly do from the common flu every winter which was counted as a corona cause.)
Add that to the count of how many died because of all the victims that were left on the ventilators for to long of a period that killed them.

Your statement is right on Spike.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
23 Aug 2020 #2,986
Today's numbers for Poland as the weekend slump begins....

Fatalities (daily total) 4, age range 61-93, average age 81

Hospitalizations (running total) up 6 to 2195...

Respirators in use, up 2 to 81

Cured (daily total) 522 almost 90% the number of new cases...

Ratio of cured to fatalities (daily) there were 130 times more cured cases than fatalities.
johnny reb 28 | 5,329
23 Aug 2020 #2,987
Trump to announce emergency authorization of convalescent plasma as 'breakthrough' covid-19 treatment.
Stay tuned.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
24 Aug 2020 #2,988
Today's numbers for Poland as the weekend slump begins....

Fatalities (daily total) 5, age range 62-93, average age 70

Hospitalizations (running total) up 12 to 2207...

Respirators in use, up 1 to 82

Cured (daily total) 265 almost 90% the number of new cases...

Ratio of cured to fatalities (daily) there were 53 times more cured cases than fatalities.
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
24 Aug 2020 #2,989
What has that got to do with Coronavirus or Poland ?
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,632
25 Aug 2020 #2,990
It seems now won immunity only lasts a few months (or even less).

In Hong Kong a former cured man got infected again after only 4 months...the first documented case of a real re-infection with a new strain of that virus.

news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1545589-20200824.htm

Does that mean we will need to be vaccinated every few weeks?
AntV 2 | 167
25 Aug 2020 #2,991
the first documented case of a real re-infection with a new strain of that virus

BB, one guy was re-infected. Take a deep breath, this isn't the bubonic plague.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,632
25 Aug 2020 #2,992
Even the bubonic plague started with that one case!!!!

*hyperventilates*
Spike31 2 | 2,110
25 Aug 2020 #2,993
Does that mean we will need to be vaccinated every few weeks?

@BratwurstBoy has learned about the new pandemic business model.



Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,632
25 Aug 2020 #2,994
Would you have seen the bubonic plague as a conspiracy too? ;)
Spike31 2 | 2,110
25 Aug 2020 #2,995
It's not the same league, not even the same game. Bubonic plague death rates were over 50% when untreated.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
25 Aug 2020 #2,997
the first documented case of a real re-infection with a new strain of that virus

a virus is acting like..... a virus....... OH MY GOD WE'RE DOOOMED!!!!!!!!!

new pandemic business model

it's absolutely being used to introduce social changes that governments and other elites have been wanting to make for a long time

though you supposedly support some of the changes so..... there's that.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
25 Aug 2020 #2,998
though you supposedly support some of the changes so

I'm the last person on Earth who would support coronamadness and have been fighting this nonsense since its wake. In - relatively normal - London I had to stop using public transport and avoid some of the shops since I refuse to put a muzzle on my face.

But even in this pile of crap I can see some positives, like: plans on bringing back crucial industrial production from China back to Europe, a move which will benefit Poland.

Or even something so trivial yet pleasant as: less mainstream celebrity prostitute acts since most gigs were canceled. I believe that Americans must feel similar relief since Hollywood propaganda center was also hit by corona.

Oh, and I remember getting finest Italian goods half-price since morons would stay away from anything produced in Italy. In March supermarkets was empty, toilet paper and pasta was missing but the shelves with Italian goods were full of goodies.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
25 Aug 2020 #2,999
plans on bringing back crucial industrial production from China back to Europe

Who (of those who can make such a thing happen) is suggesting that? I remember some political commentators saying things like that back in April and a big pile of nada since then....

But remote education is one step (part of a continuing process) of the state disinvesting in the idea of education. If you don't think governments should be in the business of providing education you should be happy.... (and of course the social costs of closing schools will be enormous but people that don't like public education aren't the best at long term thinking).
Lenka 3 | 2,577
25 Aug 2020 #3,000
But remote education is one step (part of a continuing process)

Hmm, from what I read it's more often that the govs are pushing for opening schools (and get people back to work) while parents are more against it...

Most kids I know are going back to school as normal as soon as they can (depending on country) or now for the autumn. One kid is not going back at all and will be home schooled but the parents considered that option before corona.


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