EU confirms it will take action against Poland over court reforms

Resistance to EU >>>

EU removes Kosovo symbols after receiving Serbia's protest
b92/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2018&mm=05&dd=04&nav_id=104086



Spot OCILO (fire-steels) - Sarmatian (old Slavic) symbol on Serbian flag


Monete of Polish King Mieszko I, over 1000 year old currency

It's a shame that our Polish government recognizes Kosovo. Several European nations, I believe around 4 or 5 do not recognize Kosovo yet it doesn't affect their status within the EU/NATO. Shame that Poland isn't in that list. I wonder if PiS was in power back in 2008 if they would've recognized it or not. I think they would have either way though - especially if the Americans told them to.

Question of official Poland`s support to Serbians is more and more question of internal liberation of Poland. Mark my words. Everything will for Poland resolve around this. When Poles arise for Racowie (great majority of Poles support Serbians but people must massively demand justice for Serbs from Polish government), God would unleash its blessings on Poland and all fears will stop and Intermarium will become possible >>>

Spot how Polish children were beaten by Poland`s police because children shown solidarity with Serbians >>> especially see from 0:38 on video >>>

Poland March for Serbian Kosovo
youtube.com/watch?v=9oPqj6I4E1Q

Poles showed a lot of solidarity especially when Belgrade was bombed. One politician even said 'Today Belgrade, tomorrow Warsaw.' or something to that extent, meaning that at any point NATO/EU could do similar things to Poland. While today Poles aren't worried that tanks will start rolling in and bombers flying over our skies, we do see tons of interference in our domestic affairs from the EU - and while most Poles don't want to leave the EU they do not like the fact that they are talked down to, treated with no dignity, and worst of all are told who to take in, who not to take in, that we should amend our constitution to allow for gay marriage, all that bs. Poland won't give in though. There's a lot of things we'll compromise on with the EU but certain things are a big red line.

Intermarium would be the best thing to challenge the EU's hegemony. We have that with the Visegrad 4 which other countries are keen to join now - namely Italy and Austria or at least deepen cooperation. However, I don't think we'll see a change in borders. I highly doubt we'll ever have something like the Commonwealth again where Poland and fellow Slavs have a powerful country stretching from the Baltic to the black sea. One can dream though...

I was here. No they didn't.

Stats say otherwise: roughly half were against, half for

books.google.com/books?id=qeOEysQTpcoC&pg=PA137#v=onepage

Polish opinion on NATO intervention in FR Yugoslavia during the Kosovo War (1998-99) was mixed: 37% favoured involvement while 43% were against.[when?] The government decided in favor of a NATO-led operation to bring cease-fire in the conflict. During the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia in May 1999, a poll found 51% felt attacks to be justified, 26% opposed. Another poll found 53% in favour and 35% opposed.

It was Tusk`s betrayal. He pushed Poland to recognize Kosovo. He stubbed Lech Kaczinsky in the back on this and back then it was great scandal. But, interestingly, when asked from Polish students why he did it, Tusk admitted pressure from western Europe and US. He admitted.

And half against did not manifest their opposition in any meaningful way...

Polish opinion in the Bosnian way was overwhelmingly apathetic (I remember trying to talk about it and being met with blank stares and shrugs). I will say that there wasn't support for the Croats on religious grounds (they were remembered as nazi collaborators but then so were Hungarians and Slovaks and it wasn't held against them) but not much for the other sides either.

More concessions by PIS on the judicial reforms. The previous ones were declared by Timmermans to be insufficient, an opinion shared in particular by the Benelux countries, Sweden and Denmark. There's a meeting coming up next week at which Poland has to present all their planned changes to the reforms and a decision will then be made regarding whether to proceed further with Article 7. Taken in conjunction with the newly confirmed EU policy of linking rule of law to funding, it looks promising.

PiS (including the foreing affairs minister) already stated that there is a limit to how far they can go with a compromise on the judicial reform - also they stated that the somehow leaked demands by the EU (that RMF supposedly acquired) have never been mentioned before by any of the EU Comission representatives and are a very hard deal for PiS - by the way what do you find so appealing in PiS making concessions in the matter

Well I think the proposed reforms were a bit draconian, especially taken in conjunction with all the other things that have been going on. But you and I won't see eye to eye on that Gumi so no point in discussing it really.


I should imagine because the Commission wants to see if PIS comes up with them off their own bat. Otherwise it adds fuel to the fire of PIS and other Euro-sceptics claiming that the EU is telling them what to do.

and the Comission is not telling anyone what to do?, have mercy please

again I doubt the compromise on the conditions leaked by RMF will be achieved - PiS would have to sacrifice too much

It's not the Commission telling people what to do. Article 7 etc has come about through the votes of Poland's fellow member states in the European Parliament. The EU is a community and the community doesn't want to have authoritarian regimes as members, which is where Poland seemed to be heading.

seemed to whom and based on what?

Any member can cancel article 7. It's highly unlikely it will go through seeing as any v4 or other ally can immediately cancel. Besides this mep vote is nonbinding.

politico.eu/article/european-parliament-triggering-article-7-poland-judicial-reform-voting-rights

Maybe it's time for poland to take the money and run if there's no compromise. No deal is better than a bad deal.

But they wont be taking money And they would be falling not running. exiting the EU would be an economic catastrophe that would put Poland at the same level of economic development as Ukraine or Serbia.

I can believe these leaks are coming out of the commission - I have just finished a book by the Greek Finance Minister, and this was their modus operandi when they were trying to force through decisions against the Greeks, leak that the other side had been given conditions which they have never seen before. The Greeks just like the UK compounded this with their own disorganisation and sometimes amateur performance - I can imagine precisely the same things coming from the Polish government.

You're just full of ****. So deluded as to reality that is not even worthy try to talk with you.


Boo ho aren't you a little merry doomsayer. people who live off the eu will fall but not Poland.

Gumi I suspect you're being deliberately obtuse.

@Dirk, I can see you still don't understand how the EU works. Anyway regarding MEP votes, whether they are binding is not important. What matters is the message they send. It's your friends, your colleagues, your allies, your peer group, your community telling you how they feel. If you choose to ignore that, you isolate yourself from valuable contacts and end up being stuck with places like China. However I'm not going to waste my time debating it with you. I can already hear the 'China is awesome, the rest of the world sucks, except maybe for Russia, man, that Putin really has balls' response.

your allies don't burden you with things you are not ready and not willing to carry - like the idiotic penalty on Poland for not fighting smog - it's our business what we sue to heat our homes not the fokkers from Brussels or Strassburg - to name just one single thing the EU burdens us with - if it goes on like this I am all for a Polexit

and Atch were was European Commission when PO thugs unlawfully appointed 5 judges to the Constitutional Tribunal instead of 3

and Atch name a single article of Polish constitution President Duda has broken can you?

Gumi the air quality in Poland is the worst in Europe. It's killing Polish people. If Poland wasn't put under pressure by the EU to do something about it, they wouldn't, because the government doesn't give a toss.


Don't know the details of it. Will look into it.

Not being sarcastic, but I think that to comment intelligently on the constittution, one needs to be a fluent Polish speaker and have studied it in its original form, not an English translation. Obviously I can't tick those boxes. Also one needs to have a pretty good knowledge of constitutional law and I can't tick that box either.

Ok, as far as I can see, the appointment of three of the judges by PO was legit as those seats were vacant while PO were still in government. So Duda was out of order in refusing to swear in all five.

Yes, there was no excuse for him to not swear in the three that were legtimately chosen by the previous government. It's fine and dandy to want to change the constitution but you need to follow the constitution that you have before you change it.

(I think the extra two were a trap set by PO to get JK to overstep and he walked right into it).

Personally I am really glad that the EU puts pressure on the governments to fight smog. I live in Southern Germany where the regional government is deeply influenced by the car industry, which means that cities like Stuttgart have a serious smog problem. This is not something trivial, this is literally killing people and any influence that changes that is welcome. I assume many Polish people are also interested in the reduction of smog.

Of course - how can Czech and Slovakia be ready to fight smog but Poland not ? Do you ever soend any time walking around Polish towns Gumuishu ?

They still don't care. Coal will continue to be used as the primarily fuel till at least 2050 according to the Polish government. There is no other economic option - importing is too expensive and renewables are still in their infant stages. Coal is plentiful and cheap hence that is what will continue to be used for the time being. If the EU wants us to stop using coal then they canpay for our natural gas imports or build clean power plants for us.


Yes of course they want to reduce the smog levels especially in the south - as long as their utility bills don't drastically increase though...

What you also have to understand is that Poles have always had a deep reverence for the coal industry and coal miners - even during communist times. Miners are as respected in society as say office workers or nurses or architects. They are paid quite well too for blue collar work. It has been this way for generations in Poland and although yes, people do want less smog, the industry isn't going away. In fact, there are plans to expand the coal industry as the demand for energy increases. There is no other low cost option for Poland, so unless the EU wants to subsidize Polish peoples' utilities and pay for our natural gas imports, that's what will continue for the foreseeable future.

So why are the neighboring countries, poorer than Poland, able to comply and have air quality seveal times bette than Polands Beijing levels?

Because they don't have as large of a large coal industry.

Czech does - its right over the border from slask. Romania also has a sizeable coal industry.

Yes but neither is nearly as large as the Polish industry nor does it employ as many people or have the same level of political protection, with the exception of Germany which mines even more coal than Poland. Also a lot of Poles want the coal industry to remain as it's been one of the few decent paying jobs an uneducated person can get and it keeps utility prices low. Plus, coal specifically lignite is far cheaper than anything else on the market it's roughly quarter of the cost of natural gas. Until there's an equally priced option that will power 80% 90%+ of Polish households and will employ over 100k people, coal will remain for probably the next 20-30 years as the key energy source.

you said you don't know Polish constitution and claim that Duda had no right to reject all 5 judges - how informed of you