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Candidate for Poland's National Bank NBP chief Glapiński wants repolonisation of banks


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
20 May 2016 #1
At long last Deputy PM and developemtn mi nister Mateusz Morawiecki is no longer a solitary voice calling out in the wilderness for repolonisation. President Andrzej Duda's candidate for new NBP head Professor Adam Glapiński believes the main challenges facing the financial sector is repolonisation of banks and sorting out the Swiss frank loan imbroglio. In general he wants to continue the Belka policy saying: "If it ain't broken, don't fix it!"
delphiandomine 83 | 17,900
20 May 2016 #2
Repolonisation of banks is fine and well, but where's the money coming from? It's a non-issue for me - if they want banks in Polish hands, the money has to be found to do it. But bear in mind that the 500+ programme is like a hungry child...

As for the CHF mortgages, it's pretty much clear that this is becoming a complete mess for PiS. Any attempt to force the banks to pay is going to cause carnage in the financial sector, yet the country simply doesn't have the money needed to cover it without destroying the budget.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
20 May 2016 #3
but where's the money coming from?

Tell me this -- why over the past 26 years competitive major Polish-owned private banks failed to appear and next to no Polish-owned retail chains? What went wrong? Who was to blame? Balcerowicz? Mazowiecki? Wałęsa? Belka? Kwaśniewski? Miller? Buzek? Tusk? Kaczyński?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,900
21 May 2016 #4
Would you risk a huge amount of capital in fighting with PKO BP? They have such deep pockets (and such a well known brand) that it would be commercial suicide for any new Polish entrant to take them on in the same way.

Anyway, Poland rather developed the credit union network as opposed to conventional banking. The problems are well known and they should have been regulated better from the very beginning, but they did well enough.

But really, what does it matter who owns the banks? PKO proved beyond all doubt with their last results that a Polish owned bank was still going to screw the customer over to maintain profit margins and that there's nothing patriotic about them.

and next to no Polish-owned retail chains?

That's a matter of logistics. Poland developed a lot of good retailers (Empik, Smyk, Alma, Piotr i Pawel) and left the big retailing to foreign companies. You're forgetting that a lot of companies found in shopping malls are actually Polish, as well.

Bear in mind that Poland actually got the best of both worlds - we've got the large hypermarkets, but we've also got a very strong domestic retailing industry and several chains of smaller supermarkets that do very well for themselves.

But you know - one thing to remember is that if you want strong Polish companies, you have to create a business environment that allows them to flourish. PiS are just about the tax the hell out of water use, which will heavily hurt food producers. Poland is quite clearly capable of being a European powerhouse when it comes to food - so why are PiS doing this?
mafketis 23 | 7,826
21 May 2016 #5
next to no Polish-owned retail chains?

What a Soviet minded cluess tool you are (nothing new, but it bears repeating at times).

The only way for Polish-owned profitable retail chains to arise is

a) small chains gradually becoming bigger (while avoiding growth traps) this takes much longer than 26 years

b) a class of Polish managers who have risen through the ranks of foreign owned chains and know how to keep a chain afloat (also takes more than 26 years)

I'm assuming your way is the CCCP/PRL strategy:

c) state fund a massive retail chain and staff it with party loyalists many (or most) of whom are not qualified for their positions and then keep shoveling public funds into is money-burning maw forever.

In 1989 Poland did not have a large entrepreneur class (it did have a bunch of hopeful micro-entrepreneurs) and the competent managers had mostly been in the party (because they needed to be members to get ahead).

How are you going to build a Polish business class out of that and carry out decommunization (effectively excluding many of the most competent from the market) at the same time?
Dougpol1 33 | 3,409
21 May 2016 #6
Poland developed a lot of good retailers - Empik

On its' knees according to the analysts. And if you don't believe them, just visit one of Empik shops. Total gash when compared to W.H. Smith.

Anyway those kind of shops have been killed off by the internet.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 May 2016 #7
does it matter who owns the banks

It does matter! Who controls the banks controls the country. In a war or other crisis foreign bankers can effectviely blackmail their host country. BTW do you know of any other post-1989 government that made repolonisation a plank in their political platform?

Does it matter who controls industry? The dumb Pollacks should be happy to even have jobs and be content to assemble VW or Daimler stuff. That's what mercenaries are for: assemble and shut the f*ck up! Why have your own industry in the first place?

The retail chains you mention are no competition to the real biggies: Tesco, LeClerc, Biedronka, Carrefour, Lidl, Praktiker, Leroy, Castorama et al which control the market.
smurf 39 | 1,981
21 May 2016 #8
Who was to blame?

Capitalism baby
You wanted it
Deal with it
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
21 May 2016 #9
Capitalism baby

Yeah, focker, as we all know A. Smith used to say: If you have a state owned bank, just sell it to "foreign investor" for 5% of its value.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,900
21 May 2016 #10
In a war or other crisis foreign bankers can effectviely blackmail their host country.

Poland has PKO BP along with the NBP - what more does she need?

Bear in mind that the Polish-controlled SKOKi are in a complete mess financially. Is that really better than having stable, foreign-owned banks?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 May 2016 #11
NBP

The central bank NBP is not a normal retail bank. Poland needs economic sovereignty, banks able to compete with Deutsche Bank, Citihandlowy, Uniceredit, Raffaisen et al, Polish-owned industry, Polish-owned retail chains, and for the first time the term polonisaiton or re-polonisation has become a battle cry. Hopefully it will not remain just a slogan. Despite the EU strait-jacket which restricts a country's freedom of movement, legislators still have ways of influencing economic development. Let's all hope they know how to use them effectively.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,900
21 May 2016 #12
The central bank NBP is not a normal retail bank.

What does that matter? Isn't it actually better to have foreign-owned banks taking on the risk and not domestic Polish ones?

Poland needs economic sovereignty

Sounds very communist.

banks able to compete with Deutsche Bank, Citihandlowy, Uniceredit, Raffaisen et al

You mean PKO BP, Getin Bank and whatever PZU comes up with? They're doing quite fine, from what I can see.

Hopefully it will not remain just a slogan.

It's a simple slogan used by economic illiterates.
Ironside 49 | 10,205
21 May 2016 #13
As for the CHF mortgages, it's pretty much clear that this is becoming a complete mess for PiS

Nah, it is pretty simple just the law that exist in other countries needs to be applied here as well. You are right though that in the mess of the Poland's legal system and courts specially if you take into consideration the privileged position of banks - that is a long, hard and tough fight ahead. I simply don't understand them. Those mortgages had nothing to do with PiS, quite the opposite they were warning people. The sole responsibility lies on Tusk's government and they are liable to be sued or charged with criminal negligence.

Why they are opening so many fronts they cannot win easily? To my mind that is simply a big flaw in the way there are acting and communicating with the people.

It must be due to the way that PiS is ruled by a one person. He is not some frakking genus and he cannot really handle and properly asses all the information as well as predict all the consequences of undertaken actions. Need more people with brains and think-tank's paid by them, they should have it all ready.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 May 2016 #14
Poland needs economic sovereignty

You speak like someone from a coutnry that has never been partitIoned and wiped off the map for 123 years and subjected to the occupation of two different, alien, totalitarian ideologies. That DOES make a difference!

Capitalism baby

But there is cut-throat capitalism and capitlaism with a human face. Governments the world over have in place all sorts of anti-monopoly measures, fair-trade legislation and labour laws to "de-cut-throatise" capitalism. Poland's constitution identifies Poland's economy as a social market economy. The Platformers emphaised the market aspect, the "good-change" government want to humanise things by accentuating the people-friendly "social" element.
mafketis 23 | 7,826
21 May 2016 #15
the "good-change" government want to humanise things

Like Venezuela? Intentions don't count, results count. PO's results were far more beneficial for a majority of the population than PiS's plans could ever be.
pweeg3
21 May 2016 #16
You speak like someone from a coutnry that has never been partitIoned and wiped off the map for 123 years and subjected to the occupation of two different, alien

And you sound like a communist. There is a very simple reason why communism collapsed - it doesn't work.

If you really cared about Poland, you would never suggest a return to such disastrous policies.
Ironside 49 | 10,205
21 May 2016 #17
There is a very simple reason why communism collapsed - it doesn't work.

In what way? You sound as if you are trying to spin to us that capitalism in its liberal modern version is somehow an Alpha and Omega. a flawless standard that cannot be shaped or changed according to the country needs.

There is already massive flaw the financial system that led to the last collapse of the banking system that had to be heavily subsidized by the taxpayers money - what kind of capitalism is that?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 May 2016 #18
beneficial for a majority of

You mean beneficial for a majority of the Magdalenka clique, the nachapani. It is true that the ex-SB/PZPR types, oligarchs, professional dynasties, shady-business-friendly PO operatives and their compliant media toadies lived in the lap of luxury. But for the wyjebani -- many ordinary Poles without the right PRL-era contacts -- it was mostly dead-end jobs or emigration.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
21 May 2016 #19
Poland has PKO BP

You know what's the key diff between PKO BP and Pekao SA ?
mafketis 23 | 7,826
21 May 2016 #20
You mean beneficial for a majority of the Magdalenka clique

Blah blah blah, ooga booga! No. I mean beneficial for about 98% of the population. The benefits have not accrued evenly throughout society but that's an impossible goal. And of course there are many who think they should have benefitted more but have no real reason to think that (in terms of education or skills or social capital).

If someone visited in 1991 and then came back 25 years later they'd be amazed at the progress. People who spent their working lives loafing in pretend PRL jobs don't have much to show for it but the only way to ultimately help them is to help the rest of the society become more prosperous.
pweeg3
21 May 2016 #21
In what way? You sound as if you are trying to spin to us that capitalism in its liberal modern version is somehow an Alpha and Omega.

No, I said this

There is a very simple reason why communism collapsed - it doesn't work.

No matter what you say, capitalism is better for everyone.
mafketis 23 | 7,826
21 May 2016 #22
capitalism is better for everyone.

Capitalism is a terrible system compared with some perfect hypothetical system, but at present it's the only system that actually works at all in the real world.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 May 2016 #23
not accrued evenly throughout society

As you well know, I have little sympathy for the judaeo-commie-rooted Michnik, but even Hitler gave the world the VW and Autobahn, so Michnik also deserves his due. Recently he said something most everyone can agree with -- roughly that PO's rule was deficient as regards a more just distribution of wealth and privilege.

In less elegant terms, one could say that 80% of society remain the wyjebani (f*cked) and 20% -- the nachapani (gorged).
mafketis 23 | 7,826
21 May 2016 #24
one could say that 80% of society remain the wyjebani (f*cked) and 20% -- the nachapani (gorged).

Not where I live, you'd strain to make the opposite argument. Of course many Polish people who could not be described as poor by rational standards tend to subjectively feel poor and real economic statistics don't affect subjective feelings.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 May 2016 #25
the rest of the society become more prosperous.

This is the so-called trickle-down effect. A little bit does trickle down but in the meantime the gap has widened because the rich have become even richer than before. And you must take yoru cues from Alice in Wodderland if you try to convince anyone that tycoons and the afllfuent in general have got to where they are only through hard work without dishonest operations, scams and wronging their fellow-man
delphiandomine 83 | 17,900
21 May 2016 #26
Polonius, if you honestly cared so much, why aren't you spitting fire over the sheer amount of nepotism that PiS have introduced to the civil service and state-controlled companies?

Surely the "common man" should have an equal chance at becoming the top man without needing to have political affiliations?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 May 2016 #27
why aren't you spitting fire

For the same reason you tuirned a blind eye to 8 years of PO scams, oldboy cronyism, the OFE heist and other irregularities. All governments unfortunately function accoridng to set patterns, but at least PiS are in favour of the little guy, not beneficiaries of the infamous Magdalenka mafia.

Speaking of that, mostly the same familiar faces clinched the backroom Magdalenka deal as took part in the Nocna Zmiana conspiracy to topple the Olszewski government. In case you've forgotten, check this out:

youtube.com/watch?v=yJrOt3wPcxEY
delphiandomine 83 | 17,900
21 May 2016 #28
but at least PiS are in favour of the little guy, not beneficiaries of the infamous Magdalenka mafia.

Strange, because Lech Kaczyński took part in those negotiations.

As for "the little guy" - how could they be when they appointed endless cronies to top jobs, completely ignoring all the apolitical people that were perfectly capable of doing the jobs?

The little guy is now getting screwed worse than ever, because it's been made clear to him that without Party membership, he has no chance of ever running a company under government control.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 May 2016 #29
Lech Kaczyński took part

He was present but saw what was going on -- hand washing hand, KORites and PZPR types, Michnik buddy-buddy and raising vodka toasts with the commies and that turned him off and he efffectively sat things out. You did not see him amongst the 1992 backroom conspirators!

it's been made clear to him

Not exactly, the KODists would like to make that clear to him, but Poles have a mind of their own and won't fall for any more KOD rabble-rousing. The proof is that PiS still enjoy top billing in the polls -- 37%, the same as last October's election. Again you're mistaking wishful thinking for reality!

it's been made clear

delphiandomine 83 | 17,900
21 May 2016 #30
and that turned him off and he efffectively sat things out.

More revisionism. In fact, he liked what he saw so much that him and his brother joined Wałęsa's chancellery and took an active part in the post-1989 settlement.

As for PiS being on 37% - you forgot to mention that PO are on 19% and the coalition is on 26%. I make that 45-37 in favour of the opposition.

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