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Cameron's EU reform good for Poland


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467
21 Feb 2016  #1
While Brexit would be bad for Poland and could lead to the eventual collapse of the EU, Cameron's reasonable and healthy approach to the EU coincides with Poland's view of the community: a confederation of sovereign states voluntarily cooperating for the benefit of one and all. Were it not for Britian, the Polish govt would not have had the clout to insist on a family-affairs opt-out. But since Britain did re certain issues and so did Ireland (opposition to paritcipation in a EU military force), a precedent was set. The Polish family-affairs opt-out has thankfully hampered attempts by EU leftist loonies adn asssorted lib-creeps to impose their baby-butchery and other perversions on Poland. From the remarks by Brits shown on Polish TV, many UK-ers resent losing control of their laws, borders and their country in general.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
21 Feb 2016  #2
If UK out (which I seriously doubt), it would mean more unemployment and more poverty in Poland. Poles would not be able to go there and work, would not be able to send money home (very big concern for Polish governmentS). Moreover, Poland as the no.1 EU money's recipient is too weak to dictate their whims.
Ktos 17 | 461
21 Feb 2016  #3
From the remarks by Brits shown on Polish TV, many UK-ers resent losing control of their laws, borders and their country in general.

Yeah, but when Polish called for the same the Bits (right away) painted Poland as radical, rebellious bigot, although not as strongly as Germs, French and other EU "heroes". Now Britain is lending some support to Poland only because it favours Its harder push for reforms benevolent to Britain, by incident this will help Poland but collapse of EU would have been better. Control is what Britain craves and if It has to play secondary role It is not happy and so reform has been brewing for some time now. So I would not go as far as to call Cameron's approach "healthy", more like power hungry, self -preservation move and a racist one at that. I support it nevertheless but let's call it by it's name.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467
21 Feb 2016  #4
too weak

I have already said that Poladn lacked the clout to initiate an opt-out but was bale to isnist on one iocne the UK set a precedent. I agree. Brexit would be a disaster for Poland, but a reformed, non-invasive EU seems a desirable goal.
Ktos 17 | 461
21 Feb 2016  #5
Poles would not be able to go there and work, would not be able to send money home (very big concern for Polish governmentS).

However, it would also mean slow rebuilding of Polish economy, Poland needs to have Its own private companies, It needs to grow and under EU It only pays niche of the highest order not to mention It accumulates more foreign debt and loses more independence and having independence is most crucial. Poland can not be EU servant for ever, not much will change for Poland until it leaves EU.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
21 Feb 2016  #6
@Pol3: absolutely but no matter what, everybody (at least in the West) knows that EU is to collapse very soon and personally the sooner the better ;). Most probably UK voters will vote in favor of EU (otherwise their votes will be refused like already seen in Ireland, France and the Netherlands - EU self claimed clique does not like populations to vote "wrong") but as EU has become a giant fiasco (Merkel may have contributed a lot to said fiasco but the others did not do too much better, it won't last very long (no matter what UK decides). Except of course big business, there is hardly any soul in Western Europe in favor of EU.

Good riddance and asap!

@Ktos: "Poland being a servant"! It'll stop when 1. Poland will really contribute to EU's funds (check what Poland pays in and what Poland get out ;)) 2. Poles are paid as much as their western counterparts so big companies from abroad won't have to come to Poland for cheap labor.
Ktos 17 | 461
21 Feb 2016  #7
Brexit would be a disaster for Poland, but a reformed, non-invasive EU seems a desirable goal.

I do not believe in such EU, the big players will not allow it, although it would be more desirable for Poland for some time. Germans for one will never let go of the idea to rule the whole of Europe and even more.
pweeg3
21 Feb 2016  #8
otherwise their votes will be refused like already seen in Ireland, France and the Netherlands - EU self claimed clique does not like populations to vote "wrong"

If the UK votes to leave, they will leave, there is no doubt about it.The vote could go either way, there is a lot of ****** off people who are sick of the un-democratic manner of the EU.

The deal is good for Poland because half of the 'Trillion Zloty' investment for Poland is coming from the UK's contribution.

Losing that will be a disaster for Poland and PiS, so I can see why P3 is pleased.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467
21 Feb 2016  #9
'Trillion Zloty' investment

On balance however Poland is a loser. EUu membership merely set Poland up as easy prey for Western big business who have extracted from Poland more profits than what the country got from the EU.
Ktos 17 | 461
21 Feb 2016  #10
Exactly, that's what I mean.
dolnoslask
21 Feb 2016  #11
I don't think the UK will vote to leave, too many have been brought up to follow the liberal leftist line or they are of foreign origin and worried about being kicked out , there is no sense of national pride in the uk anymore, I was once shown a map of the world according to america it marked Britain down as pussies, I think they are right.

See the map below.

interculturalmeanderings.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/map-of-the-world-according-to-americans.jpg
pweeg3
21 Feb 2016  #12
Yes, because Polands tiny economy and poverty struck population were a goldmine just waiting to be robbed.

Sarcastic.

liberal leftist line

WTF is that? PiS are leftist's they aren't liberal, stop thinking like a merican.

worried about being kicked out

They dont get a vote.

Britain down as pussies

Even if it were true, who gives a **** what idiots think?
Ktos 17 | 461
21 Feb 2016  #13
Yes, because Polands tiny economy and poverty struck population were a goldmine just waiting to be robbed.

Any country with some valuable resources will be used by the other if circumstances allow if the latter is a shark. During WWII Germans were even picking up scraps of seemingly useless metal pieces found on the roads (after their self initiated explosions) and packed loads of trucks with such "useless" junk for remaking in Germany. So the rich and abusive will take anything they can and make use of it for their own benefit if its free or brings profit. Same goes for robbing Poland of anything the western business scavengers can rob it of.

P. S. No need to write "sarcastic" (seriously - explain it more I do not understand, oh yeah I must explain now - this is my sarcasm) at the end, nobody would accuse you of getting the issue right anyway.
Roger5 1 | 1,463
21 Feb 2016  #14
If the UK votes to leave, they will leave, there is no doubt about it.

There is little chance of a Brexit. According to polls, the ins and outs are more or less balanced, but there is a significant minority, 25%, of undecided voters. These people are important, and they are more likely to take the safer option and vote to stay in. Also, the in campaign has hardly started. The outs accuse the ins of scaremongering, while doing exactly the same, which is quite amusing. As for those pollsters who have the biggest financial interest in getting it right, i.e. the bookies, they offer a best price of 2/5 against an in vote.
pweeg3
21 Feb 2016  #15
Any country with some valuable resources will be used by the other if circumstances allow if the latter is a shark

Polands natural resources are insignificant compared to its human resources.Poland can protect its workforce from foreign exploitation by making them site at home and starve.

Communism is good at protecting 'protecting its workers and culture', as is Putinism.

Sarcasm.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
21 Feb 2016  #16
of course, Roger, the "yes" to EU will win all the more as I expect that a lot of people will not bother to vote.
Tictactoe
21 Feb 2016  #17
The UK will not leave the EU, not even if the stay vote were 100%. To many businesses, mainly financial institutions make alot of profit from the EU countries.

JP Morgan the American institution that hid Greeks " poor financial state " to allow it to cook its book in favour of joining the EU is also one of the main financial backers in the UK stay campaign. Why would an American financial institution care, because its all about money and nothing else.

If you are opposed to the EU then you are a mere racist, xenophobe nationalist. Kind of ironic that the EU has its flag and national anthem and its patriotism is favorable but I guess it's going to be.

Like I say, we won't leave. Greece didn't, we won't, non one leaves.

One sunny day I will wake to hear those words I long to hear, the EU has broken apart for good, the unelected now have no job and are being investigated over historical fraudulent behaviour.whilst in office.

And remember Poland, nothing is for free. All this money pumped into Poland will one day be repaid.

To me its like a pack of wolves feeding it's pray till it gets big enough to devour, then !.
Crow 143 | 7,500
21 Feb 2016  #18
Cameron's EU reform good for Poland

maybe even because of Poland. Sure, they won`t admit it. Its plot within plot. More they delay Poland`s abandoning of EU, more chance that Poland never abandon EU due to assimilation of Poles and softening of Poland with refugees.

For many reasons Poland is worth of all games around her, believe me.
Ironside 47 | 9,566
21 Feb 2016  #19
Yes, because Polands tiny economy and poverty struck population were a goldmine just waiting to be robbed.

That opinion wasn't sarcastic it was just plain stupid. Please keep your prejudices and the mind boggling half-baked ideas to yourself.
Sorry but to think about economy in terms cooked up by a bankster bookkeep mindset is stupid.

All this money pumped into Poland will one day be repaid.

One day? It started from the day one.

The UK will not leave the EU, not even if the stay vote were 100%.

You know, you could be right, What a shame?
polishinvestor 1 | 362
21 Feb 2016  #20
It was the demands of the eastern european block that took the meeting into the weekend. Szydlo gloating in the weekend press has been picked up by the uk press and may swing some undecideds but the game changer isnt benefits. Currently the exit camp has a marginal lead in the most polls but have come from a losing position. In the same way the scots voted yes to stay in the uk, the uk will vote to leave the eu on the 23rd june. The dice has already been cast, these weekend negotiations will make no difference.
pweeg3
21 Feb 2016  #21
Sarcastic or stupid, there is little difference. Polands economy was rendered useless by Communism, the idea that diamonds of Polish industry were given up is laughable.

FSO Poloneze, for instance.. what an embarrassing joke. My dad was a patriotic buyer but he was also an engineer who slagged it off for the rubbish it was. It caught fire in the street and burnt to a crisp.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,824
21 Feb 2016  #22
gloating in the weekend press has been picked up by the uk press and may swing some undecideds

I didn't notice this!

That's almost certainly going to turn some undecided voters into Leave - nothing will look worse than Poland gloating about what they've managed to get out of the UK.

But still, it all depends what The Sun does. If Murdoch comes out and backs Brexit, then things will get very interesting. I suspect, like the Scottish referendum, he'll simply sit on the fence.

As for those pollsters who have the biggest financial interest in getting it right, i.e. the bookies, they offer a best price of 2/5 against an in vote.

The bookies seem pretty confident that the UK will stay. 2/7 for the UK staying in is pretty decisive.

But, and one but - if Boris joins the Leave campaign, all bets are off. I'm almost certain he won't - the City is so dependent on the EU that it would be suicide for him to back the Leave campaign.
Ant63 11 | 403
21 Feb 2016  #23
But, and one but - if Boris joins the Leave campaign, all bets are off.

BBC reckon thats the way its going to swing('just on the news'). Question Time has been interesting over the last few weeks with inners very much in a minority. During the last episode, the inners had to be cajoled into putting their hands up. What was particularly surprising was the last

one in Stratford on Avon, which is barely touched by immigration, almost certainly fell on the side of Leave with a large majority.

This may point to the fact that immigration isn't the only burning issue. Could it be the fact the EU is built on a Soviet style model, where a voice of dissent, was silenced by the Gulags? The westernised version is political correctness and destroying those who don't toe the line.

Who knows what the plan is? One things for sure, in or out, its not going to end pretty. There is of course the burning question, "What has the EU done for the UK? For a lot of people, its brought low wages, higher rents, longer waiting times at the doctors, overcrowded schools, and intolerable neighbours. For me, out and rebuild before the ugliness is the only sensible option.

But still, it all depends what The Sun does.

That may well of held true a decade or more ago. England's changed and they even charge to view the Sun Online. To be fair, Camerons pretty much been slaughtered across the board today in the media. His time as PM is done. Boris may leapfrog, Osbourne and May, simply by having the courage of his own convictions and doing whats right for the country rather than Call Me Dave's crumbling career.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,824
21 Feb 2016  #24
To be fair, Camerons pretty much been slaughtered across the board today in the media.

He deserves it. I'm pro-EU, but this 'deal' is garbage - nothing much has changed, and it doesn't address many of the key points that people were unhappy about. People were expecting serious change on benefits, for a start.

BBC reckon thats the way its going to swing('just on the news').

Just saw that he's going to announce it at 10pm tonight. Either way, the bookies seem pretty confident.

There is of course the burning question, "What has the EU done for the UK?

Quite a lot, not least providing a huge trading market and allowing London to become the undisputed financial capital of Europe. The UK leaves, the EU will almost certainly create a tax deliberately aimed at destroying the City and moving the business to Frankfurt with a secondary market in Paris along with a possible 'emerging market' in Warsaw.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
21 Feb 2016  #25
The city was the financial capital of the world before the eu/euro and will remain so in event of brexit. In fact it will become an even bigger draw.

Remember that eu minus uk is lesser than current eu makeup.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,824
21 Feb 2016  #26
The city was the financial capital of the world before the eu/euro and will remain so in event of brexit.

Or an even worse draw when the EU imposes a small (but significant) tax on non-EU/EEA/CH financial transactions unless they comply with some clearly made-up requirements that are designed to punish the City. European banks will all flock to Frankfurt/Paris, and non-European banks will be happy to work with Frankfurt rather than London as the Euro is far stronger than the Pound.

The EU can be very malicious when it wants to be - Switzerland had to accept Dublin and Schengen in exchange for continued favourable access to the EU, after all.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
21 Feb 2016  #27
Eu runs a surplus with the uk, so its the eu that will be cap in hand.
dolnoslask
21 Feb 2016  #28
" eu that will be cap in hand" 50% import duty on Mercedes or some BMW's what fun, sadly UK aint got the balls to leave and build a better future with the wto.

But sadly the destabilization that brexit causes will have a negative impact on Poland at this time, only in my opinion of course.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
21 Feb 2016  #29
Polls are marginally with the leave side, having been a solid lead for the stay side a year or so ago. I will say no more on this, not wanting to give up my play.
dolnoslask
21 Feb 2016  #30
give up my play. don't blame you , tough call, If they leave I might be tempted out of retirement for a last blast.


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