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America's Tea Party like Poland's Solidarnosc?


A J 4 | 1,088
6 Nov 2010 #31
Learn how to install and configure routers and I'll hire you.

I can do that.

Did you get sacked? :P

If that's meant to be some kind of insult, then you only show how oblivious you are to the whole situation. A lot of guys get sacked here all the time, because employers only give you a short-term contract, and usually ditch you short before the contract expires, so that it looks as if they've tried. But the simple truth is that they want cheaper labour migrants to work for them on a temporary basis.
convex 20 | 3,978
6 Nov 2010 #32
I can do that.

Send me your resume. If you're interested in travel and working your way up to doing engineering work, then send it on over.

Get to live in Poland too and steal good Polish jobs.

Anyway, moving way off topic here.
A J 4 | 1,088
6 Nov 2010 #33
what I mean is that in a very poor country somebody making 300% shouldn't be called poor, even though that is still not much money, things need to be put in the right context.

I'd say it usually depends on the rents and the basic costs of living.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
6 Nov 2010 #34
It wasn't an insult, don't worry ;)

One thing that Solidarity actually was doing was demanding much more in the way of permanent contracts for people. The problem is that they weren't willing to give up some of the rights contained within the permanent contracts - so we're back to square 1.

And yes, for temporary work, foreigners tend to be better - simply because you can get rid of them easily and cheaply.
A J 4 | 1,088
6 Nov 2010 #35
And yes, for temporary work, foreigners tend to be better - simply because you can get rid of them easily and cheaply.

I hope someone will think about society for a second. A lot of people in a lot of different sectors are seeing a loss of income due to less consumerism, and I'm not too sure if higher unemployment rates will be benificial for those employers who think foreigners are cheaper either. Birth rates? Still dropping. Single people? About 4 million. I guess the employers are happy.
ShawnH 8 | 1,507
6 Nov 2010 #36
I hope someone will think about society for a second.

Don't count on big business to be the keepers of good social policy. They need an incentive to take the needs of society into account.
Marek11111 9 | 816
6 Nov 2010 #37
tea party is not like a solidarnosc is the opposite of it.
solidarnosc was for workers to get better pay and for people to get better standard of living
tea party is for corporations ans against government to regulate corporations for benefit of all people as the environment and safe working place, they got the money from Koch brothers and they are doing their best to disrupt democratic process.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
6 Nov 2010 #38
Yes, Solidarity was a movement to gain better standard of living and working conditions for workers...It may have changed as 'infiltrators' came in...You may know more about this than me.

'Tea Party' is now simply a distraction used to 'co-op' certain conservative Americans who want a real change, by 'neo-con' operatives...And, your comment about the Koch brothers is right on...Not many know about these billionaire manipulators...Only a few articles in alternative press.

People, whether in USA, Poland or Europe believe what they are fed on TV, and that is mostly lies...It is important to go deeper and find out 'who really is who'...Politics is entertainment, like NFL or popular sitcoms...But as adults, we must understand what is a fairy tale and what is real.
A J 4 | 1,088
6 Nov 2010 #39
Don't count on big business to be the keepers of good social policy. They need an incentive to take the needs of society into account.

This sounds a bit too arrogant for me, because they need to acknowledge that their businesses exist because of society. We can outsource everything, but inevitably, there will be a day when India and China are going to catch up with us, and become far more competitive than they already are. And then what?

A lot of people in a lot of different sectors are seeing a loss of income due to less consumerism, and I'm not too sure if higher unemployment rates will be benificial for those employers who think foreigners are cheaper either.

I think I've mentioned two pretty good incentives here. (and you can also add the stagnating housing market if those aren't good enough.)
ShawnH 8 | 1,507
6 Nov 2010 #40
there will be a day when India and China are going to catch up with us

that day is coming soon. In many arenas it has passed us by.

lot of people in a lot of different sectors are seeing a loss of income due to less consumerism, and I'm not too sure if higher unemployment rates will be benificial for those employers who think foreigners are cheaper either.

But that requires planning and forethought. The next quarter is what matters to most corporations.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
6 Nov 2010 #41
that day is coming soon. In many arenas it has passed us by.

It depends what you mean. Majority of people there still "enjoy" much lower quality of life than factory workers in USA a hundred years ago and It will take many many years to seriously change that situation.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
7 Nov 2010 #42
solidarnosc was for workers to get better pay and for people to get better standard of living

Then, yes.

Nowadays, it's about allowing lazy moustaches the right to do next to no work, while getting very well paid for it.
ShawnH 8 | 1,507
7 Nov 2010 #43
Majority of people there still "enjoy" much lower quality of life than factory workers in USA a hundred years ago

But it is miles better from where they were 20 years ago. The jobs they are doing have left America, and aren't coming back.

It will take many many years to seriously change that situation.

But their situation is getting better year by year, and the west's is getting worse year by year.
PolishTraitor - | 20
7 Nov 2010 #44
Anyway, check for yourself.

I'll call bullshiit on that site. Looking at their figures, somebody earning $50,000 pays $1,325 in ZUS per year. In reality ZUS is 23% of gross salary (and the same amount again paid by one's employer. That is if you are an employee. If you are self-employed, you pay 850zl per month which is about $4,000 per year.

And that site doesn't take into account the fact that sales tax in Poland is 22% on pretty much everything but in the US it is far lower (if it even exists).
Softsong 5 | 495
7 Nov 2010 #45
Yeah, it only takes into account payroll taxes, but the calculator got mine right on the button in SC. We have 7% sales tax on some things and I would have to factor that too, as well as property taxes.

All in all it is a good tool for a general comparison between countries. Perhaps one could google the sales taxes in other places if interested in a more complete comparison.
convex 20 | 3,978
7 Nov 2010 #46
I'll call bullshiit on that site. .

I get 8200 net when I throw it in to the full Polish calculator.
wynagrodzenia.pl/kalkulator_oblicz.php

I think that ZUS is capped at a certain level. That makes for $680 a week net...with something resembling health care included.

There is a big myth that taxes are low in the US...

That was one of the cornerstones of the Ron Paul candidacy, to show that we are getting bent over...and yet we still can't pay for a 1/3 of the stuff that we buy every year.

The Tea Party has backed off of the massive cuts that need to be made. The message is being diluted and it's being merged into mainstream conservatism.
sobieski 107 | 2,128
7 Nov 2010 #47
The Tea Party loonies would have spit on Solidariność. They would have crucified Wałęsa.
AdamKadmon 2 | 508
7 Nov 2010 #48
Does the Tea Party support the establishment or is against it, if it is against the establishement, then the Tea Party will be crashed like the left in the sixties.

...
... The American state fought back violently. At the democratic convention in Chicago in 1968 the police and the national guard were unleashed to attack thousands of demonstrators. It was the start of a phase of repression of the new left in America. It culminated in the killing of four students at Kent University 18 months later. In the face of this the left began to fall apart.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
7 Nov 2010 #49
A little bit of socialism isn't bad. Tea Party is against any kind of socialism. They weren't around before socialism was invented. They never saw why it was created. The problem in the US isn't a pinch of socialism here and there. It's the mismanagement of funds by the federal government. We need some social programs in this country.
convex 20 | 3,978
7 Nov 2010 #50
Tea Party is against any kind of socialism.

That's the thing, the mainstream Tea Party is perfectly alright with socialism which benefits them. Social Security, Medicare, government jobs, government contracts...
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
7 Nov 2010 #51
Social Security, Medicare, government jobs, government contracts...

That's true. Most people have benefitted from socialism before it was called that - like when the government was giving away free land. No one had a negative label for that so everyone thought it was great and it's still celebrated today...however...if the government went and did the same thing now...it would be called "socialism" and it would be criticised, unless the landn was going to the "right" (literally, people on the far right) people. Then it would be okay. Everybody wants free stuff from the government. Nobody wants to pay taxes.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
8 Nov 2010 #52
Does the Tea Party support the establishment or is against it, if it is against the establishement, then the Tea Party will be crashed like the left in the sixties.

Tea party supports the establishment...It is merely an updated sitcom called 'The Real Conservatives' or 'Red State, Blue State'...Neo-con and Zionist money has taken over Tea Party, and puppets like Glenn Beck have been hired to help co-opt it and the explain it to the public.

A few 'tea party' candidates may actually be reformers, but they are marginal...FED Reserve and Wall Street run America, in co-operation with global banking/corporate cartel.
nunczka 8 | 458
8 Nov 2010 #53
tea party is not like a solidarnosc is the opposite of it.

Bull Shidt Marek. The Tea Party is a grass roots group of people that got fed up with our corrupt government. They figured out that in unity there is strength.. And they proved it last week. I am not a member. i am an independent, but I love what the Tea Party is doing. You can only push people so far. There are still a lot of crooks left.. But in time they too will be gone.
kondzior 12 | 1,221
8 Nov 2010 #54
I sometimes do wonder... If the Solidarity's strikers knew that their actions will be the cause of liqidation theirs work places, that in the end result they'll become jobless flock, some of them even homeless...

I harbour no love for communism, but I have turned up rather nicely at the end...
But these people, they got tricked, didn't they?
pgtx 30 | 3,156
8 Nov 2010 #55
Do you agree with the following interpretation:

of course not, you silly goose, you...

if only they know how to organize and have determination

this part is just funny...
Marek11111 9 | 816
11 Nov 2010 #56
nunczka:
Bull Shidt Marek.

grass root group sponsored by Koch brothers, you are the one that is pushing crap up the hill
did they protested against defense spending ?
did they protested against bank bail out ?
did they protested against Bushes war spending ?
did they protested against big business tax loopholes ?
did they protested against big banks ?
did they protested against fraud foreclosures ?
it seems to me that they are line in step with corporations policies.
Grass root they might been in first minuet then they became corporate stooges
Krynski - | 82
11 Nov 2010 #57
"America's Tea Party like Poland's Soldiarnosc?" (sic) asketh "Polonius3".

It appears the answer may be "yes" if the word "Soldiarnosc" is changed to "Solidarnosc". Anyone curious why?

Solidarność was socialistic.

That is untrue. Solidarnosc was neither "socialistic" nor "socialist" nor "capitalist", but, in fact, a dazzling mix of various and diverse ideas and approaches, including socialist and capitalist ones. Lech Walesa himself dreamed of future Poland as "another Japan", didn't he? And weren't many in Solidarnosc almost fanatically pro-American? Didn't they admire President Reagan, Mrs Thatcher (the latter isn't, of course, American)?

:)
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
11 Nov 2010 #58
Indeed, the two "factions" can clearly be seen to this day.

I only hope Solidarity gets relegated to history sooner rather than later - the modern day "Solidarność" has so little in common with the historical one.
A J 4 | 1,088
11 Nov 2010 #59
We need some social programs in this country.

I guess some people will only start thinking about such things when they've lost their jobs themselves.


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