Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 15

I care little about their long suffering pathos as iong as they keep it to themselves, don't wreck the lives of people close to me, don't invade the country adjacent to the one I live in, don't carry out chemical weapons attacks in the country I'm from, don't try to influence the results of elections in favour of the far right, don't try to undermine the values of democracy and freedom which are fragile enough, and don't keep threatening to nuke people.

The saddest thing I've ever seen was about 3 years ago when I doing some work for a while in Libya and had to visit Benghazi. They (Wagner Group) had destroyed the whole downtown area, several blocks. Not a pane of glass or even a window frame left in the big apartment blocks. Big piles of rubble and twisted concrete and metal blocking the streets. And a few, but only a few mostly older people there, sitting alone in the ruins rocking back and forth. It looked truly post-apocalyptic, like something from a horror film.

I took some photos (it was a shocking thing to see) which I'd planned to put on social media but never could in the end since it would just have been voyeurism.

@jon357
Don't mix the regime with the people.

@jon357

Great post!

Everyone needs to watch this video especially the Russian Bum Lickers......

What is it `Bum Lickers`?

I have said it many times before.It's time for Russian people to be brave enough to rise up and revolt.Russia as a true democracy would be a great country, my only fear is that the inherent Russian corruption(Part of Russian cultural character) will ruin it.

That is jon's favorite pass time with his buddies.

Exactly what it says..... people that lick someones bum..... because they are so filthy and love them too much....I'm thinking You, Novichok,Velund, Bobko and a few others.....

They've not had a peaceful regime change in 900 years of history. Very few of their dictators die in their beds.


I wonder if that Ruffe guy (the one convicted of child sex offences) who lives at Jim's house is back inside. When it was pointed out here that there was a registered sex offender at that address as well as it being registered for children's daycare, it was deregistered within 24 hours of being posted here. Two valued and very regular posters stopped posting on that same day; one because of their profession as well as disgust, the other just through disgust.

Or maybe he's moved to r*SSia where people can get away with anything seamy.

Or somewhere like Thailand.....Jim may follow him soon, I notice that he never mentions his wife.......

A derogatory term used to insult persons who Western bootlickers can't win with while debating Russia's liberation war in Donbass.

Hey, send him a letter, you have his address.
Then you don't have to wonder anymore.

Yes, he had pictures of nude underaged people on his computer.
You probably have pictures of underaged naked little boys too.
Didn't you and delph use to trade them. :-o

It wouldn't surprise me. There's a very dark side to humanity, some of it infesting places like this.

The demented Serbs and whining orcs are just window dressing.

Context matters...in the case of Poland it was still relatively fresh after the PRL and anxious to prove itself to be a valuable ally to the US...

And all the things that russians suffered are because of choices made by russians...


In the case of Poland it helped bring unprecedented prosperity.... (Ireland too).

Again russians chose to steal from each other rather than build a system of rule of law.


Maidan...

And it's true that the world has been moving away from democracy for.... about 24 years now. That's no excuse to give up on the good that it can do and placidly accept tyranny (or sweep for tyrants).

It destroyed everything around me in the 80s. The 90s weren't much better.


This is true. And democracy is a fragile thing, under an onslaught of fascism.

Free markets are like fire, a very useful tool but one that needs to be controlled.... Thatcher was an early neoliberal (which is not about left/right or free markets/socialism but about destruction of any and all institutions).

Absense of free markets in the PRL vs presence of free markets now in Poland.... not many with 3 digit IQs would hesitate about which is better.

Which is socialism. What it's about from start to finish.


Not many would have seen hungry homeless back in the PRL. Anyway, that was a weirdly applied sort of communism.

Hey, there's twenty brands of disposible razors, some divine hummous bis tahini in Piotr i Pawel and you can afford a case of Chablis. Lovely. And your neighbour's leccy has been cut off and 70 tramps froze to death in stairwells.

Context matters is a get out of jail free card...

I would argue that Maidan was not a popular revolt it was a far right led coup followed by the deliberate destruction of any semblance of political representation for the majority of Ukrainians. Of the political parties that were not suppressed the good people of Ukraine rejected the far right despite those thugs fomenting then leading the Coup and its follow up hounding of those with a different opinion. All revolutions are led by extremists and the people just have to suffer to make their dreams come true.

The majority of Ukraine's population were happy to keep their heads down and just get on with life as best they could, the same thing people do all over the world during interesting times and Russian people do the same.

Thats not to say I support Russia's invasion in any way just calling things as I see them.

No.... but it beats your "А у вас негров вешают" game.... participation in the Iraq misadventure was a mistake of course. That's not equivalent to current russian aggression.


So... you know nothing of how it happened and have not read any of the accounts of participants?

And as 'far right' goes.... again, I ask how many representatives of the 'far right' were elected to the Ukrainian parliament in 2019?


You just don't oppose it very much....

The Russian supporter pretending to be "neutral" was cute the first dozen or so times people tried it in this thread, I guess. I think it is pretty old by now.

@mafketis

Its very simple you can't substantiate your freedom loving people description.

I pointed out that the good people of Ukraine rejected the far right instigators in the flawed election immediately after the coup. The myopic, you are either with us or against us rhetoric is as sterile as the "freedom loving people" nonsense.

@Korvinus
Stand up on your hind legs, puff out your wee chest and say what you really mean.

Solidarity... 10 years of resistance leading to the roundtable talks.... healthy democracy since. Pretty good record. What country has a better record of standing up for freedom in the modern world?


Coup.... carried out by who? how?

Flawed... how?

It was genuine. Yanukowich had to go. He was r*SSia's poodle (and animosity to r*SSia is normal in Ukraine for very sound reasons), had broken a pretty big promise about Ukraine's integration with the free world. That and poisoning his electoral opponent which is rarely a plus.


We have such people on the U.K. too, Barney. They are a pest, they are upierdliwy na maksa, they are c*nts, but we have them. And Ukraine which has suffered under the opposite point of the horseshoe has them too. It's a wonder there aren't more of them, given the historical context. However Ukraine, like us, doesn't elect them to things. Having said that, look at Farage etc.


Do you believe that r*SSia must be defeated and that we should give Ukraine the tools it needs to finish the job?

@mafketis
You know full well that its a hollow slogan.

Palestinians are freedom loving people yet don't have the means to achieve self determination due to the actions of others. Polish people achieved self determination partly through their own actions but mostly because of the weakness of others twice in the last century. The desire for freedom and the ability to obtain it dont always match.

All of them?

Anyway, there's only a tiny number, mostly living in Israel and the West Bank,

Lots of Egyptians in the Gaza Strip though, being used as pawns by Egypt whose population has exploded from 40 million to 110 million is a couple of generations and still has a stratospherically high birth rate. And no oil or much else.

What are you basing that on? The main freedom they want is not to have jews around.... they're not very freedom oriented when it comes to things like religion, or womens rights etc.


True but some groups do what they can (Poles, Ukrainians) and others.... don't (russians come immediately to mind).

As the charter of the government of Gaza makes clear, the freedom they really want is the freedom to kill Jews. Because, as that charter says, "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."

Yup, and the next paragraph reads:
Quoting
Our enemies took control of the world media. They were behind the French Revolution and the Communist Revolution....They were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources. They obtained the Balfour Declaration, formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the establishment of their state. It was they that instigated the replacement of the League of Nations with the United Nations and the Security Council to enable them to rule the world through them. There is no war going on any where, without [them] having their finger in it.

@Lazarus
You would be using a very wide brush there, kind-a-like cherrypicking quotes to support your pre existing view as seen throughout this series of threads.

Palestinians voted for HAMAS I doubt very much that most had read their founding charter. I suggest they voted for them because the PLO who recognised Israel were ineffective against Israeli apartheid.

But certainly a far less wide brush than one which is used to paint Palestinians as freedom loving people. And one certainly needs a lot of paint if one wants to paint over things such as the Palestinian treatment of LGBTQI+ folks. Putin is clearly an evil man, but he's never been even accused of throwing people off tall buildings for the 'crime' of being gay, Hamas, on the other hand, view such action as highly desirable. Not even the imaginary Nazis you claim were behind the Orange Revolution have been accused of that, although that could simply be because they don't exist.


The PLO were also entirely ineffective against the Ukrainian unicorn-riding hussars, for exactly the same reason that they were ineffective against Israeli apartheid: it's a wee bit trick to be effective against something that doesn't exist.