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Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 4


Velund 1 | 657
1 Dec 2022 #1,291
Latest poll in Russia shows that only 1 in 4 people approve of this war.

What the hell is name of universe from which you write this here? ;)
jon357 71 | 20,799
1 Dec 2022 #1,292
unofficial account but one that is often very accurate

They're actually pretty good. One of those sources who consistently call things right.

It seems that r*SSia is panicking; the liberation of Crimea will be as disastrous for them as the liberation of Kherson.
johnny reb 40 | 8,555
1 Dec 2022 #1,293
What the hell is name of universe from which you write this here?

I guess the news hasn't reached you yet but it soon will.
Read it and weep.
Russian public support for Vladimir Putin's war in Ukraine has reportedly collapsed, according to a poll commissioned by the Kremlin "for internal use only."

Only 25 percent of Russians now favor continuing the conflict, reported Meduza, a Russian-language independent news outlet that obtained the private poll.

msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-support-for-ukraine-war-has-collapsed-in-a-few-months/ar-AA14N17I

Give it up Velund, Russia lost, would let the rest of the world move on please before you really **** NATO off.
cms neuf - | 2,060
1 Dec 2022 #1,294
Great that France now backing tribunals for the Russian murderers

Very powerful speech by Zelenska in the UK - first victory, then justice
Velund 1 | 657
1 Dec 2022 #1,295
I guess the news hasn't reached you yet but it soon will.

Maybe, maybe... I've hardly read the news lately, too busy setting snares on broiler sparrows and finding the lair of the last saber-toothed hedgehog in the nearby woods. The last thing I read was about the appointment of Sergei Surovikin as Ukraine's Minister of Energy and the upcoming performance of Wagner's "Khokhlocaust" opera overture in Bakhmut.
pawian 200 | 21,268
1 Dec 2022 #1,296
logic then we should be militarily involved in places all over the globe

Yes, it sounded so. :):)
However, the places you mentioned are not fighting against RuSSia which has been the mortal enemy of the USA for decades.

influential leaders think (or are afraid to say otherwise) that Russia is threatened

It is their paranoic problem which they should treat without involving all Europe and US in their obsessions. They refused to treat it when there was time, now they are receiving treatment from Ukraine, NATO and the West. And we`ll see if the RuSSist patient survives in one body. hahahahaha

I've hardly read the news lately,

You little liar. :):) You read the news all day long.
PolAmKrakow 2 | 1,971
2 Dec 2022 #1,297
@Velund
Things are going so well for your countrymen that Russia is now sending old missiles meant to carry nukes into Ukraine in order to deplete Ukraine air defenses. Why? Because the Orc army is running out of regular missiles to do the work of destroying civilian targets and the Ukraine air defense is too good to accomplish that now. Your chief Orc's little court jester Lavrov is now making overtures suggesting the US should enter talks. While at the same time he makes threats about escalations. When will all the fvcking retards in Russia realize that none of us are afraid of you anymore. We are enjoying watching Russia get biatch slapped on the battlefield, and watching her economy crumble.

Wait until the $60 per barrel oil price cap kicks in. China already turning away Russian ships because they are not insured by US or EU companies. With that relationship crumbling, who does Russia have again? Turdminkastan? Shitstainastan? That noise you hear behind you is your country having its life blood extracted from a much smarter group of men who simply want peace and are tired of Russian saber rattling. Happy gulag dirt farmers!
Velund 1 | 657
2 Dec 2022 #1,298
reported Meduza, a Russian-language independent news outlet

Forget word "independent" and "news" in conection to Meduza. ;) Last years it is purely propagandist cesspool, financed from different sources not connected to Russia and with HQ located in another cesspool. ;)

Things are going so well

I hope you invested your money based on expectations from information, got at your news sources. ;)
PolAmKrakow 2 | 1,971
2 Dec 2022 #1,299
@Velund
I did. I invested in Military and Aviation production stocks thank you for asking. Every missile used on the Russian military is a new missile in production, thank you for assisting in my retirement contributions. One thing for sure is that investing in Russia's demise will be profitable. Give little boy Vlad a hug for me, I may even send him a thank you card. Vlad, Peskov and Lavrov are the Russian version of Three Stooges. Priceless idiotic comedy. I think they all buy their suits from the same place too. Hang a cheap suit on a useful idiot and you have the picture of Orc leadership. Medvedev would be Shemp of course.
jon357 71 | 20,799
2 Dec 2022 #1,300
Great that France now backing tribunals

Agreed, however I was diappointed that Micron was saying that Putler's departure shouldn't be a pre-condition for talks. The American president slapped him down, and his words aren't a disaster in themselves, however taken against the appalling statement by Scholz that trade with r*SSia (of course he means the gas) could return to normal, it isn't a good look.

It needs to be made clear that hydrocarbons or any major trade from r*SSia to Europe will be a thing of the past.
GefreiterKania 22 | 1,142
2 Dec 2022 #1,301
This NASAMS thingy looks quite impressive...

twitter.com/KpsZSU/status/1598607356635627526?cxt=HHwWjIC-ufm6sq8sAAAA

...I wonder how many did the Ukrainians get.

From the point of view of military technology, Russia stands no chance.
mafketis 35 | 11,523
2 Dec 2022 #1,302
ussia stands no chance

Something Galeev pointed out once that many overlook... one of the best things to happen to Ukraine after 2014 was a generational shift in leadership.

russia, meanwhile is stuck with ancient fossils in charge of everything who think they can win wars by shoving enough live bodies into the line of fire - i.e. human waves. Peter Zeihan claims that basically russia has only ever won wars by shoving massive amounts of bodies at the enemy and not caring about casualty rates.

Again, russia is simply out of date and stymied by the old, old, old men in charge who are stuck in a soviet mindset (also in malignant bloom among the pro-russian crowd here...).

Note how quickly russians look to the past (beginning their arguments with things that happened centuries ago with no relevance to the modern world) while Ukraine is more about the future (a better future without the russian millstone around their neck).
GefreiterKania 22 | 1,142
2 Dec 2022 #1,303
old, old, old men in charge

Their conscripts are not exactly young either (see photos at page 41 of this thread). Russia doesn't look good in terms of demographics (age pyramid etc.), so starting this war was incredibly stupid, but to continue it despite such heavy losses (around 90k men) and without realstic chances to win is absolutely criminal.
Tacitus 2 | 1,725
2 Dec 2022 #1,304
it isn't a good look.

Why? We can afford to divulge in revenge fantasies, but politicians have to consider the future. Once Russia withdraws from Ukraine, signs a peace treaty and gives credible assurances regarding its' neighbours then of course steps will have to be taken to reintegrate them into Europe.
GefreiterKania 22 | 1,142
2 Dec 2022 #1,305
Once Russia withdraws from Ukraine, signs a peace treaty and gives credible assurance

On condition that the peace treaty is signed and the assurances are given by a new Russian government. You can't possibly be imagining trusting Putin and his mafia again and going back to doing business as usual with them?
jon357 71 | 20,799
2 Dec 2022 #1,306
signs a peace treaty and gives credible assurances regarding its' neighbours

How naive. They've been signing things for years without any intention of sticking to them. And what assurances from r*SSia would you regard as 'credible'?

hen of course steps will have to be taken

"Of course"? Not a chance, and there is unlikely to be any consensus about this.

Your phrase "integrate them into Europe" is very telling. Europe isn't "integrated", nor is there any sort of consensus about r*SSia. They will remain in the cold with no hydrocarbons exports to the west and sanctions firmly in place until the war crimes trials have taken place, demilitarisation and full reparations paid regarding harm caused to Ukrainian citizens and to infrastructure. Plus of course full transparency about their intelligence assets in Europe and the Americas.

a new Russian government.

Has any r*SSian government, new or old, ever behaved with honour and decency?
GefreiterKania 22 | 1,142
2 Dec 2022 #1,307
Has any r*SSian government, new or old, ever behaved with honour and decency?

A good question for historians on the forum. I'm quite sure there was at least one such government. Maybe some government from the period 1953-1955, 1957-1967 or 1969-1978 (they didn't invade anyone in those periods, if I'm not mistaken)?
jon357 71 | 20,799
2 Dec 2022 #1,308
As Oleksiy Danilov, the Secretary of Ukraine's National Security and Defence Council, one of the more moderate and authoritative voices in this war has said: "r*SSia is a country of thieves, unworthy of negotiations...... r*SSia has destroyed many peoples, their language, culture, traditions. It is necessary that it ceases to exist as a country within the boundaries in which it exists.Barbarians are unworthy of fellowship"

So no, they will not be returning to any fold anytime soon.

1953-1955, 1957-1967 or 1969-197

The same regime, and I note you handily skip 1956 and 1968. And no, no r*SSian government (except perhaps Kerensky's which only lasted 10minutes and didn't have the chance to disgrace themselves) has ever been remotely trustworthy.

They have demonstrated time after time that they are a threat to the world. Fortunately the UK and the US have realised this and of course take the lead..
GefreiterKania 22 | 1,142
2 Dec 2022 #1,309
They have demonstrated time after time

In more recent times Boris Yeltsin's government was quite all right, I suppose. So, maybe if they found a Yeltsin-like leader, it would be possible to deal with them again?
jon357 71 | 20,799
2 Dec 2022 #1,310
Boris Yeltsin's government was quite all right, I suppose

I'm not sure the Chechen people would agree with you there.

So, maybe if they found a Yeltsin-like leader, it would be possible to deal with them again?

And look what happened when Yeltsin's rancid liver packed in. Weak leaders in r*SSia are always very temporary.
amiga500 3 | 1,295
2 Dec 2022 #1,311
convincing the yanks that it's safe for russia to implode and break into sovereign states will be a tough ask.
check george bush 1 infamous chicken kiev speech telling the ukranians not to demand independence from the ussr cause bad... then they did 6 months/1year later. and the sky did not fall on our heads
GefreiterKania 22 | 1,142
2 Dec 2022 #1,312
Looks like Scholz is really willing to get back to business as usual with Putin, if he promises to be nice again...

"Olaf Scholz has suggested that Europe should go back to its pre-war "peace order" with Russia and resolve "all questions of common security" after the war in Ukraine if President Putin is willing to renounce aggression against his neighbours.

thetimes.co.uk/article/olaf-scholz-ukraine-war-peace-order-putin-w99zlnnw7

... un-be-f*cking-lievable. :-/

It's as if allies wanted to make peace with Hitler's government, and leave him in power in Germany, when it was already obvious that nazis were going to lose. Seriously, what's wrong with this guy???
OP Novichok 4 | 7,560
2 Dec 2022 #1,313
Looks like Scholz is really willing to get back to business as usual with Putin

Because Scholz is a German patriot with brains and loyal only to his country - not to some lofty principle that does not benefit the people who elected him to be chancellor. Poles should learn this trick from Germany and France.
PolAmKrakow 2 | 1,971
2 Dec 2022 #1,314
@Novichok
Scholz is a German moron. Anyone expecting these billions of dollars to go to waste to have things go back to normal for Russia should be hung.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,319
2 Dec 2022 #1,315
Looks like Scholz is really willing to get back to business as usual with Putin

It's not only Scholz, it's his party..the SPD....we have actually a Staatspräsident (Steinmeier) who just a few months back had a bromance with Lawrow running...

And no, we can't hang them right now, the elections came to early...before all that disgusting stuff came out....and it isn't as if CDU-Merkel was much better....now we have to wait a few years for the next one...gah!
Tacitus 2 | 1,725
2 Dec 2022 #1,316
if allies wanted to make peace with Hitler's government,

Unlike with Hitler, there is zero chance of the West marching into Russia and enforcing a regime change. There are conditions that Russia will have fullfill first, which includes making peace with Ukraine and confirming the status of its' former subjects/victims in new treaties = things that are extremely unlikely to happen while Putin is still in power. It will be difficult for Russia to regain trust, but of course a chance must be given if the opportunity arises. It may be more satisfying to say that Russia ought to isolated forever, but politicians need to consider what is the best-long term. A long enmity with Russia is something that Europe can hardly afford and should be avoided if possible. Not that I am particulary optimistic on that front for the next 10-15 years but the possibility remains.
OP Novichok 4 | 7,560
2 Dec 2022 #1,317
It's not only Scholz, it's his party..the SPD...

Let me help you with your dilemma...Any German who would split his loyalty and priority between Germany and anything else is a very bad German. You can replace "German" with a country of your choice and my claim is still true.

Germany has more reasons to be friendly with Russia than any other country. Scholz knows it and that is why so many Ukraine-good-Russia-bad idiots hate him.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,319
2 Dec 2022 #1,318
Germany has more reasons to be friendly with Russia than any other country

There are reasons and there are reasons!

To profit from economical relations with a dictatorship which is just invading and terrorizing a neighbour is for most people not a good look in the mirror....especially as every moral standing has been beaten and battered for economical reasons for awhile now. So much so that every moralizing by our gov (or football team) makes us look ridiculous now in the eyes of the world....
mafketis 35 | 11,523
2 Dec 2022 #1,319
Germany has more reasons to be friendly with Russia

But it has no reason to _trust_ russia which has proven itself to be a country led by liars and thieves who break every agreement they make.

It is _not_ in Germany's interest to be friendly with untrustworthy liars....
johnny reb 40 | 8,555
2 Dec 2022 #1,320
The pace of Russian losses in recent days puts Moscow on track to reach the even higher benchmark of 100,000 deaths in 19 days, according to a Newsweek calculation.

Putin's biggest nightmare are that three more countries want to join NATO.
Two of them border Russia.
How does this guy sleep at night ?

Home / News / Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 4
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