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Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 4


PolAmKrakow 2 | 1,584
25 Oct 2022 #31
@pawian
A letter signed by 30 idiots in the Democratic party is not fake news.
Crnogorac3 2 | 704
25 Oct 2022 #32
1

Radioactive substances when Ukraine detonates a "dirty bomb" can cover Poland, and also spread in the atmosphere at a distance of up to 1,500 kilometers, according to the Russian Defense Ministry
Kashub1410 5 | 467
25 Oct 2022 #33
@Crnogorac3
Same or worse if Russia does it, and for every day that goes without Putin admitting defeat by signing a peace treaty which Russia can be the losing side or if he isn't switched out with a more reasonable leader. The chance of him using nukes increases.

Not much difference wether it's Ukraine or Russia using the nuke that leads to a fallout, and Russia will be most likely to be blamed due to it's arsenal. World will quite willingly believe that it's Russian special ops that tries to blame Ukraine. Wether it's Ukraine or Russia that detonates it, Russian Intelligence Agency should know better
PolAmKrakow 2 | 1,584
25 Oct 2022 #34
@Crnogorac3
And if the wind is blowing one way all the fallout can go into Russia. Like most of Chernobyl's fallout went into Russia. The Orc's making a dirty bomb is not surprising at all. The whole setting the stage going on now is not surprising either. Just like there was not going to be an invasion as the Orc's put 150K men on the Ukraine border. Pitiful excuse of a county, Russia is inching closer to the finish line as a nation every day.
AntV 5 | 634
25 Oct 2022 #35
it's hard to believe the US Repubs supporting that world view! :)

I agree with your astute observation, BB. There is no evidence that republicans as a whole are pro-Putin, the evidence is to the contrary.

You mean humanitarian aid worth a few million bucks?

I was talking about the $40 Billion voted on earlier this year.

All of them??? Reps are divided into two factions:

I have no idea if all Repubs support funding Ukraine, but you don't need all of them to get things passed. The evidence is the overwhelming majority of Repubs have supported sending Billions to Ukraine. The grumbling you're starting to hear now from some Repubs is not pro-Putin grumbling, but the fair and sensible questions of limitations and defining a clearer American role--should we give Ukraine a blank check and, if so, why?

Your opinion of Republican party divisions needs revision. Trump supporters are not pro-Russian--as Trump wasn't pro-Russian (his record proves that) and many traditional conservatives are pro-Trump. You forgot to add the blue-blood country club Republicans in the mix--those republicans don't support Trump.

A great swath of the Republican party supports the MAGA agenda, even if some aren't particularly keen on the personality of Trump. And, MAGA is very much pro-American, and as BB pointed out, a major Russian geopolitical goal is to see America weakened. So, MAGA support and pro-Russian are inherently contrary to one another--like oil and water, they do not mix but repel each other.

@pawian
A letter signed by 30 idiots in the Democratic party is not fake news.

Who needs a news outlet when you have a direct link to the progressive House caucus' website.

progressives.house.gov/_cache/files/5/5/5523c5cc-4028-4c46-8ee1-b56c7101c764/B7B3674EFB12D933EA4A2B97C7405DD4.10-24-22-cpc-letter-for-diplomacy-on-russia-ukraine-conflict.pdf
PolAmKrakow 2 | 1,584
25 Oct 2022 #36
@AntV
Now these dumb Fvcks are saying the letter was written in July and only released yesterday. This sums up the Democratic left perfectly. Terrible response and even worse timing. But hey, lets give all the public university teachers a raise while cancelling 10K in debt for all those who took out too many loans because oh yeah, those same university teachers are already making great money with retarded retirement packages.

Now, lets get back to funding the end of Putin. While I dislike Trump, Ant is spot on with MAGA being 180 degrees from Pro Russia. The problem with the whole Russia / Trump thing was the stupid "collusion" accusations that were made and made it look like Trump was pro Russia. If anything, Putin was pro Trump because he had a misguided belief he could manipulate Trump. Like he believed Kiev would fall in three days.

Meanwhile, 40 Orc's from the Chechen outfit were liquidated at one time today with a well placed strike. Lets get a few more of those this week as we watch Kherson fall back into Ukraine control.
OP Novichok 3 | 6,795
25 Oct 2022 #37
This sums up the Democratic left perfectly.

You should spend more time on the US problems to cheer Joler, JR, and me up.

Back to this stupid war that shouldn't...

Either NATO is an impenetrable wall to Russia or it's not. If it is not because Putin is a suicidal maniac, you, Poles, are wasting money. In fact, by being in this idiotic org that needs periodic justification and new reasons to kill more people, you are risking a lot by being the first target on his list.

If, on the other hand, NATO is a wall even Putin wouldn't dare to breach, then you can just tell Ukraine to get lost and let Russia take it just as it took Crimea and live happily ever after.

So which one is NATO? A very scary wall or a little creek?
cms neuf - | 1,948
25 Oct 2022 #38
Every grosze we spend on NATO is worth it - we don't want drunk rapists invading

Why would we leave our innocent neighbors to be over run by rapists either ?

And Russia's presence in Crimea is temporary
pawian 197 | 19,922
25 Oct 2022 #39
The evidence is the overwhelming majority of Repubs have supported sending Billions to Ukraine.

Good. But: Ye shall know them by their fruits. Soon.

The grumbling is not pro-Putin, but limitations and defining a clearer American role-

The problem is that any limitations and doubts on the part of US gov are pro Putin in Ukraine`s situation right now. Simple.

MAGA being 180 degrees from Pro Russia.

Of course not. Trump was planning to withdraw the US from NATO to be able to cut down on military expenses. This would be an amassing act that RuSSists had been looking forward to for decades since NATO came into being.
pawian 197 | 19,922
25 Oct 2022 #40
by being in this idiotic org being the first target on his list.

Strange reasoning, I must say. We would be the next target on RuSSia`s list after Ukraine if we WEREN`T in that organisation you call idiotic. No, it isn`t idiotic coz it protects the so called Eastern flank against RuSSist invasion. And it does it efficiently.

you can just tell Ukraine to get lost

Get lost to our natural allies with whom we are going to change Europe one day? Are you crazy???
mafketis 35 | 11,212
25 Oct 2022 #41
NATO is an impenetrable wall to Russia or it's not. If it is not because Putin is a suicidal maniac

Not a suicidal maniac but extremely stupid and wrong about everything....

my theory: he has long been.... not right in the head, paranoid and isolated and fearful (living in bunkers for a couple of years will do that)

The russian military never regarded NATO as any kind of threat which was one reason so much of the money meant to modernize the military was just... stolen.

Had any decision maker in the russian military actually regarded NATO as a threat they'd spare no expense to be ready. But they realized as long as they stay in their borders things will be fine and they don't need much of a military.

Then putain gets his insane idea to invade Ukraine and suddenly they're panicking because all they have is decades old equipment that isn't fit to stop a dog fight... and now his idiotic idea to mobilize means they're telling soldiers to buy tampons for first aid and giving them no training and paint ball helmets before sending them to the front...

russia had it fine, they had steady loyal customers for their hydrocarbons who were willing and able to let russia have Crimea for just a few sanctions and, importantly, no real military threat (except maybe China and Turkey which were technically sort of allies) and then putain ruins it all because he got a h@rd 0n for invading Ukraine....

russia is so unthreatened by NATO that putain stripped soldiers away from NATO (current and probable future) borders to send to his meat grinder in Ukraine....

putain has killed more russians in less than 9 months than the Afghans did in years... an impressive feat of auto-genocide....
AntV 5 | 634
25 Oct 2022 #42
f US gov are pro Putin in Ukraine`s situation right now. Simple

How in the hell is it the US's responsibility to help Ukraine defend itself? What is our obligation to Ukraine? Uke is NOT a part of NATO or any other alliance with the US. Russia is not a major threat to the US, so why MUST we assure Russia is defeated?

Our only obligation is to serve our national interests, just like Poland's only obligation is to serve its national interests. That's the only reason we have anything to do with this BS war. But, being involved with Ukraine is a prudential judgment of serving the national interest, not some compulsory obligation. The only compulsory obligation we have is to NATO. We have zero obligation a millimeter beyond a NATO nation's border.

To say we are pro-putin if we don't throw treasure and arms to Ukraine is two-dimensional thinking in a three-dimensional world.
pawian 197 | 19,922
25 Oct 2022 #43
you can just tell Ukraine to get lost

Nope, it is against the Polish character. Poles support any country which is aggressed by RuSSia.
From a Ukrainian site:
Defense of Ukraine
@DefenceU
Ukraine government organization
When we win this war, history will remember those who stood by our side in our darkest hour; as well as those who openly supported the aggressor.

mafketis 35 | 11,212
25 Oct 2022 #44
why MUST we assure Russia is defeated?

They hate the US 20 times more than they hate Ukraine... stop them in Ukraine or face attacks on the US
Alien 12 | 2,217
25 Oct 2022 #45
@pawian; openly supported the aggressor.....
Novi will go in history again.πŸ€”
pawian 197 | 19,922
25 Oct 2022 #46
stop them in Ukraine or face attacks on the US

Exactly.

openly supported the aggressor..

That`s attention sicking which is a kind of a mental obsession in some people - they can`t control it.
Paulina 13 | 2,942
25 Oct 2022 #47
This video is a bit old, but I haven't seen it before and it's funny lol - RuSSians got their hands on a Polish RPG-76 "Komar" in Ukraine ("komar" means "mosquito" in Polish) with instructions in Polish language on it. They thought it's American made though and one of the RuSSians said that Americans wrote those instructions in Ukrainian, but in Latin alphabet instead of cyrillic ;D:

be/lzRA51hBsOI

He even managed to understand some of it, without realising that he's reading Polish ;D Didn't RuSSians know that military equipment from different countries was being sent to Ukraine and not only from the US? lol πŸ€¦πŸ˜‚

Polish comments under the video:

"πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ such a nice one - American"

"It's like watching Monty Python🀭"

"wow they must be good if Russkies think they're American :)"

"Tolstoy, Dostoevski, Bulgakov - all of this for nothing, Russian intelligence is still on the level of Cory and Trevor from 'Trailer Park Boys' :D"

"Now you know why they're losing"

"Hahahah Jesus This is great xDDDD"

"All they can do is send missiles on cities from a safe distance"

had no time to react and not enough height yet to maneuver. Pilots dies in a crash.

You do realise that it was sarcasm on my part, right?

then you can just tell Ukraine to get lost

Poland and Poles are not helping Ukraine and Ukrainians for security reasons only, but also for moral and humanitarian reasons. I know that you're not able to understand that and I don't care what you think about it.
AntV 5 | 634
25 Oct 2022 #48
@mafketis

I don't know if they hate us more or not. I also don't think this BS war is about Russian hatred of Uke as much as it is the historical desire for regional hegemony born from geographical insecurity (I could be wrong).

Engaging Russia in Ukraine can just as easily be provocation for a Russian attack on US.
mafketis 35 | 11,212
25 Oct 2022 #49
I don't know if they hate us more or not.

a russain I knew who watched a bunch of russian tv a few months ago said that mentions of Ukraine then were kind of not that common and not that emotional but that any time they mentioned the US they were just burning with hatred and fantasies of nuking NYC and Washington...

the idea of the war from a US interest point of view is at least partly to exhaust russia as a military power so it will be unable to invade any of its neighbors again for the foreseeable future - and putain is playing along nicely....
AntV 5 | 634
25 Oct 2022 #50
war from a US interest point of view is at least partly to exhaust russia as a military power

OK, now that's an argument to ague about, IMO. And, it may very well be the prevailing American strategy.
OP Novichok 3 | 6,795
25 Oct 2022 #51
If NATO protects Poland it's not because Poland spends grosze. Keep your sh*ity money for your guests. It's because of what the US federal globalists steal from us.

My point still stands. If NATO is so good at protecting Poland, why do I read all that crap here that if Ukraine falls Poland and the rest of the Western "democracies" are next?

Either NATO protects you or it doesn't.
pawian 197 | 19,922
25 Oct 2022 #52
Either NATO protects you or it doesn't.

Protects today. But if Trump becomes President again, who knows? He was thinking of withdrawing from NATO.
We are living today and NOW. RuSSia has to be defeated NOW and consequently weakened for decades. That is the primary Polish national interest.
Tacitus 2 | 1,625
25 Oct 2022 #53
Whether or not NATO can defend itself may be irrelevant to Putin's decision to attack and even a succesful defense without nuclear escalation would be of tremendous cost. Better to stop Putin while he is still fighting Ukraine.
AntV 5 | 634
25 Oct 2022 #54
He was thinking of withdrawing from NATO

You should go back and look at ALL of the things The Great Combover said about NATO. His over-arching theme was a stronger and more vital NATO. What he railed against was some kind of US security service for Europe. He challenged NATO to get better.
OP Novichok 3 | 6,795
25 Oct 2022 #55
Again, as always, you all want to have it both ways:

(1) Putin is a mentally ill, unpredictable cruel despot - a NAZI maniac that eats babies for breakfast.
(2) Let's push him into a corner to the breaking point because 20% of some sh**hole is more critical to the survival of the human race than a nuclear world war.

My conclusion: You are all world-class morons.
Tacitus 2 | 1,625
25 Oct 2022 #56
You are really not good at thinking things through. If Putin is " a baby-eating monster" it is of course better to stop him before he comes for us, because whether he gets backed into a corner by losing to Ukraine or NATO would present him with the same option. It is however more likely that his cronies might decide that Ukraine is ultimately not worth it, kill him and withdraw while Russia is still largely untouched. Maybe the same would happen if he attacked NATO, but that would still cause a lot of damage to us and therefore ahould be avoided.
OP Novichok 3 | 6,795
25 Oct 2022 #57
So Poland and the rest of the world are counting on Putin's cronies for their survival. Fu*cking brilliant.

The critical question is this:

Is Ukraine - part or all of this sh*hole joining Russia, to be exact - worth a nuclear world war?

So cut the crap and put yourself in the position of those with the red phones and quit your crap about "rights" and "dead babies".
Crnogorac3 2 | 704
25 Oct 2022 #58
youtu.be/Bw84nOmGLcw

2022.10.24 Why I Think This Is An American Plan
cms neuf - | 1,948
26 Oct 2022 #59
Freedom from your sprat eating thieving oligopoly is certainly worth a nuclear war. Honestly we would rather be blown up then go back to living like Russians again.

As always your logic is totally dumb, no surprise since you have probably breakfasted on one of those crappy little bottles of low quality vodka.

Do you think that you can just invade any country you want to rape and murder people, just because you have some eighty year old rusty nukes with no guidance systems and broken fuses?

Next year those nukes will be melted down and the scrap metal can contribute towards rebuilding Ukraine. That includes clearing the feces out of peoples houses and gardens that your barbarian soldiers have left there.
mafketis 35 | 11,212
26 Oct 2022 #60
utin is a mentally ill, unpredictable cruel despot

Looking at official and unofficial information (and ignoring as much russian disinfo like RT as possible) a kind of picture suggests itself...

putain is an aging dictator, probably not in good physical health and certainly not in good mental health due to extreme isolation experienced during the covid pandemic...

then like many aged people he begins thinking in terms of legacy and wants to be remembered, here things get a bit more hazy, possibilities include he wants to be remembered as

-the leader who brought 'the russian lands' together (with no concern whether or not the people living there want to be brought together by him)

-the leader who made russia safe (against bogeymen, all the evidence suggests that those responsible for russian national security were never saw NATO as any kind of special threat) or maybe he's thinking in terms of Zeihan's theory of russia wanting to plug up physical access points to prevent future invasion)

-the leader who ensured longterm prosperity by gaining access to natural resources in Ukraine (under-utilized due to post-soviet corruption).

Whatever the reason, against all expert advice he decided to invade Ukraine, and

-exposed the pathetic state of the russian military, unable to carry out any kind of coordinated action and using coldwar era equipment....

-alarmed a couple of countries enought for them to want to join NATO (strengthening an alliance that had been frayed and weakened)

-gotten unacceptable amounts of young russian men killed (and it's not like they can spare them)

-exposed the russian military as war criminals and plain thieves (everywhere they've gone they've left mass graves and looted houses behind)

Unhappy with the execution of the invasion he took control of decisions by himself and only exacerbated all of the above and then made things worse by announcing mobilization... (two months after what he'd been told the deadline should have been)

and in addition to the above

-he's driven hundreds of thousands of russian men out of the country (who tend toward those with accumulated capital and/or marketable skills)

-largely eliminated the nuclear deterrent though the suspicion that russian nukes are inoperable (or simply not under his control)

There's more, but the upshot of all of this is simple...

A dictatorship with a leader who can't be peacefully removed from office is a terrible way to run a country in the 21st century....


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