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Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades


OP pawian 187 | 17,485
25 Jan 2022 #181
OK, guys, knock off silly jokes and let`s get down to business. The fundamental question is: how can Poland help Ukraine?

- supplies of modern Polish-made light anti-aircraft Grom systems - both launchers and missiles
- supplies of old or modern Polish made and foreign light anti-tank weapons - RPGs and others
- other light weaponry, e.g., grenades, guns etc
- any personal equipment which Ukrainian soldiers might need: helmets, kevlar vests, MREs etc.

Poland must be ready to host potential refugees from Russian occupied territories. Also, Poland must make preparations to host the Ukrainian Government in Exile if Russians invade deeper and occupy Kiev.

What else?
Novichok 3 | 6,515
25 Jan 2022 #183
The fundamental question is: how can Poland help Ukraine?

Not "how" but should. No, it should not because that will put Poland in Putin's crosshairs. Poland being another US military welfare state will likely drag the US into a conflict 99% of Americans don't give a damn about. So, stay the hell out of it and, if anything, help Russia to reclaim Ukraine and go back to arguing with Brussels.
PolAmKrakow 2 | 2,002
25 Jan 2022 #184
Poland needs to help itself. The Ukraine should be left on its own. Poland has enough problems, and securing these borders, and protecting its own citizens should be the priority. Poland is a border country for the EU, potential front line country, and Ukraine while nice and neighborly, should defend itself.
mafketis 34 | 11,561
25 Jan 2022 #185
that will put Poland in Putin's crosshairs

Anything will put Poland in Putin's crosshairs because that is Putin's goal, a recreation of the USSR (not viable economically without vassal states like the PRL being exploited).
Crow 153 | 10,520
25 Jan 2022 #186
Venerable and noble Poland is in deal with brave Serbs. Russians promised us to honor our deal to restore Commonwealth. Plus, Russians are stronger then western Europe and we aren`t crazy to provoke them as we did at Orsha battle, in Moscow, etc. Fortunately, Russian good heart forgive us our madness in time of agony when papacy blackmailed us.
johnny reb 32 | 6,762
25 Jan 2022 #187
A conflict in which there is no enemy.
There is no threat of a Russian invasion of the Ukraine now or in the foreseeable future in my opinion.
Despite that today's New York Times has put no less than four 'invasion' stories at the top of its homepage.
All the saber rattling has done is take the attention off the important things that are being swept under the rug.
Not to mention knocking the pis out of the stock market for the great reset along with the Covid hoax.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,652
25 Jan 2022 #188
Poland is a border country for the EU,

....at least they put up now a proper fence!

twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1485700864820006917
Crow 153 | 10,520
25 Jan 2022 #189
A conflict in which there is no enemy.

No enemy to us there dobri brate. Let us hope for peace in vast Slavic world.
OP pawian 187 | 17,485
25 Jan 2022 #190
No, it should not

That is your private opinion to which you are entitled. However, it is not the general Polish opinion. :):)

The Ukraine should be left on its own.

That is your private opinion to which you are entitled. However, it is not the general Polish opinion. :):)
Crow 153 | 10,520
25 Jan 2022 #191
Christ and Svetovid would save peace in Slavic world!
OP pawian 187 | 17,485
25 Jan 2022 #192
However, it is not the general Polish opinion.

2/3 polled Poles said they support Polish aid to Ukraine.
pap.pl/aktualnosci/news%2C1060969%2Csondaz-sasiedzka-pomoc-dla-ukrainy-mile-widziana.html
Novichok 3 | 6,515
25 Jan 2022 #193
However, it is not the general Polish opinion. :):)

As long as Polish opinion deletes the word "America", I am so happy I am ready to pee in my pants.
Novichok 3 | 6,515
25 Jan 2022 #194
From:

stripes.com/theaters/americas/2022-01-24/putin-cuba-strategic-partnership-4402280.html

Following recent threats of a potential military deployment to Cuba earlier this month, Russia's President Vladimir Putin discussed the "strategic partnership" and further coordination of "actions in the international arena" with Cuban leader Miguel Díaz-Canel in a call disclosed Monday by the Kremlin.

Translation: Hey, Biden, you fu*ck with me in Ukraine and we will make Cuba your worst nightmare. Again.
OP pawian 187 | 17,485
26 Jan 2022 #195
military deployment to Cuba

The problem is that most Cubans prefer American deployment to Russian one. Ukrainians, too. :):)
Novichok 3 | 6,515
26 Jan 2022 #196
You are either trying to be a comedian or a village idiot. Does PiS ask Poles what they like? Why would the Cuban commies ask Cubans?

This is beyond embarrassing...The president of the world's biggest superpower says this:

Biden Warns Russia Invading Ukraine Could 'Change the World': Would Be 'The Largest Invasion Since World War II'

The other weasel words not included in this infantile crap are: may, might, perhaps, maybe, seems, like wow, just saying, who knows...

It seems he forgot 550,000 US troops invading Vietnam. Just saying...
Novichok 3 | 6,515
26 Jan 2022 #197
BTW, if the editor replaced "warns" with "predicts", that title would make a lot more sense because that's exactly what Biden did.
My prediction: If Russia invades, bullets will fly. Now, I am Nostradamus Ver. 2.
Spike31 3 | 2,178
26 Jan 2022 #198
So what will Poland contribute to that?

Poland could contribute a non-NATO 152mm howitzer ammunition that Ukraine is still using for all of its heavy artillery.

Instead of costly utilization, it could be given to Ukraine as a favor. It is a win-win for Poland.
johnny reb 32 | 6,762
26 Jan 2022 #199
What if they gave a war and nobody came ?
PolAmKrakow 2 | 2,002
26 Jan 2022 #200
@johnny reb
Which is exactly what should and probably will happen. Providing "aid" is fine, not providing bodies is best.
Crnogorac3 2 | 1,186
26 Jan 2022 #201
The fundamental question is: how can Poland help Ukraine?

Mr. pawian could freely, as the head together with his family, take a position in the front lines, to remain true to his principles.

:)
OP pawian 187 | 17,485
26 Jan 2022 #202
take a position in the front lines, to remain true to his principles.

I surely will when Poland is attacked and we can even meet if you will be a part of the invading force. However, there is no need for me or any Pole to go to Ukrainian war coz we are not Ukrainian. Isn`t it simple? Poland is obliged morally to help but not so much as to send the troops and such an option has never been taken into consideration here.

You`d better read the whole discussion from the beginning instead of joining in the middle on its 7th page. :).

howitzer ammunition

I think they have stored a lot of ammo since Warsaw Pact times. What they might need is the howitzers themselves after their own ones are destroyed in fights.
OP pawian 187 | 17,485
26 Jan 2022 #203
any Pole to go to Ukrainian war coz we are not Ukrainian.

The truth is that Ukrainians must prove if they possess enough determination and sacrifice to defend their country`s sovereignty on their own. They made a grave mistake long ago and didn`t take the excellent opportunity to join European and NATO structures when Russia was still weak in 1990s. The polls clearly showed that most Ukrainians at the time rejected joining NATO and the EU, completely different than Poland. Today their attitude has evolved and they view NATO favourably but it is too late - the Russian bear has awaken and is demanding its regular imperial food.

So, sending all necessary supplies and imposing severe sanctions on Russia by the West is OK, while sending the troops isn`t an option. And Ukrainians perfectly realise it.

If they are determined and dedicated to defend their country, they can inflict heavy losses on invading Russians, like Chechens did in 1990s wars despite being so heavily outnumbered by Russian attackers. Even when half Ukraine is occupied, they can wage guerilla warfare in cities or outside, causing further damage to occupants. Simply speaking, Ukrainians must show if they are ready to give Russians second Afghanistan.
johnny reb 32 | 6,762
26 Jan 2022 #204
Providing "aid" is fine, not providing bodies is best.

biden has already stated that he would NOT be putting boots on the ground in Ukraine.

Here is the dillema for Europe though.
Suspending Russia from SWIFT could backfire on Europe.
SWIFT is a payment system.
Cutting Russia off from it would mean that Moscow would not be able to get foreign currencies.
It would also mean that Russia's trading partners, and that means Europe, would not get goods they import from Russia.
It means that Russia's oil, gas, and metals, as well as other "important imported products" would not reach European markets.
It could backfire and make for a very cold winter for the E.U.
PolAmKrakow 2 | 2,002
26 Jan 2022 #205
And reading recent interviews with citizens from the annexed area of Donetsk they do not want back in Ukraine. Fighting gorilla warfare in Ukraine is senseless when Russians are not going to leave Russia for Ukraine cities. They would only be killing more Ukraine citizens.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,652
26 Jan 2022 #206
Suspending Russia from SWIFT could backfire on Europe.

Not really, that is actually a heavy weapon....they did it with Iran and it destroyed their economy....now you don't hear much about Iran as a threat anymore!

It could backfire and make for a very cold winter for the E.U.

The US already plans for exact this situation, so yes it will be difficult but Europe should survive it...it would maybe even be a good thing and end this dependency on Russia. In the end a Russia depending on buyers for it's fossils will lose out big if there isn't that big hammer anymore to club adversaries with...

Longterm a very bad gamble! Former russian leaders knew that and that's why they NEVER stopped the energy deliveries, not even during the height of the Cold War!

US finalizing plans to divert gas to Europe if Russia cuts off supply

theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/25/us-europe-russia-gas-supplies-energy
OP pawian 187 | 17,485
26 Jan 2022 #207
It could backfire and make for a very cold winter for the E.U.

That is why the US gov has already started looking for other suppliers, mainly from Arab countries, to have this matter fixed before imposing sanctions.
PolAmKrakow 2 | 2,002
26 Jan 2022 #208
@Bratwurst Boy
Spot on. Cutting off SWIFT would cripple them in 30 days. While they would still be able to do some back room deals in the Middle East, they would quickly plunge into a depression like environment. Not to mention that prolonged stockpiling of LNG and LPG will cause a huge price reduction once those sanctions are removed and the product floods the market, which it will.

Big money does what big money wants. Russia while it has oligarchs does not have much else. How long do you think Putin will listen to those big money complaints within his own country?
johnny reb 32 | 6,762
26 Jan 2022 #209
other suppliers, mainly from Arab countries

Yes, the U.S. supplies these Arab countries with weapons that are then shipped to Ukraine.
In return the U.S. gets what ?

..they did it with Iran and it destroyed their economy...

One difference between Iran and Russia though B.B.

Russia while it has oligarchs does not have much else.

I tend to disagree on that remark.
SWIFT is a "convenient and fast" financial transaction instrument, but it is by no means unique.
Russia and China have already created their own systems of financial transactions.
Russia's one, which is called SPFS, already has over 400 institutions, mostly banks, within its network.
Iran did not have that luxury as far as I know.
Bottom line for me personally.......
Tell me why the U.S. taxpayers should be paying for all of this "foreign aid" when it really is of no concern to the U.S.A. ?
OP pawian 187 | 17,485
26 Jan 2022 #210
annexed area of Donetsk they do not want back in Ukraine

Of course not coz they are Russians mentally. It was obvious at the very beginning of their secession.


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