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Abortion still under control in Poland


Dirk diggler 9 | 4,721
4 Oct 2017 #1,352
Idk that's why I ask. I mean condoms are I'd think the after pill would atleast be available with pharmacist permission or docs RX. I mean codeine is otc in pl
Chemikiem 7 | 2,509
4 Oct 2017 #1,354
That's pretty bogus IMO. 4K pln payment to take care of a child with disabilities is nothing

I've heard nothing since my last post about it, but to my knowledge there's nothing bogus about it. Here's another brief article, and it explains that the 4K PLN payment is supposed to be the first part of a wider program to help those who choose to have a disabled child :-

reuters.com/article/us-poland-abortion-benefit/polish-lawmakers-approve-payments-for-women-bearing-disabled-children-idUSKBN12Z24G

Is the morning after pill legal in Poland?

It was available over the counter for the over 15's but new regulations mean that it is now prescription only. As Jon was saying above, this was partly the reason for Tuesday's protests.
johnny reb 28 | 5,324
4 Oct 2017 #1,355
Actually jon said that the march was about the pill trying to dismiss the fact that abortion remains illegal in almost all cases in Poland.

You are right, the abortion pill was only partly the reason for the anniversary march.
They accused the conservative government of Prime Minister Beata Szydlo of taking other steps that they say are bad for women.
This was about much more than just the abortion pill.
mafketis 24 | 9,385
4 Oct 2017 #1,356
the 4K PLN payment is supposed to be the first part of a wider program to help those who choose to have a disabled child

Slavery! Paying for a human life! Abominable!
johnny reb 28 | 5,324
4 Oct 2017 #1,357
What would you call taking an innocent human life ?
mafketis 24 | 9,385
4 Oct 2017 #1,358
a fetus has no consciousness, so aborting one has less consequences than paying people to give birth to corpses..... hideous!
Chemikiem 7 | 2,509
4 Oct 2017 #1,359
Paying for a human life

Well I suppose if a couple have already made the decision to have a disabled child, extra money will help especially if there are further plans for support, but I think if PiS are using this money as some sort of carrot in order for couples to keep a disabled child rather than abort, then it will backfire. That money is peanuts when you consider the lifetime costs of raising a disabled child. I really can't see that this move will be successful. I don't know if there is any more news in Polish media about this?
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,721
4 Oct 2017 #1,360
Ah okay, I thought it was just a one time payment and that's it. That's how I read your earlier post. If the state is going to help the child out more so that they're not aborted prior to birth I can see that being a positive then. But a single $1k payment with no further support would hardly make it worth it..

Generally, I'm pro-women's rights as far as the politics of abortion are concerned. Nonetheless, I feel that it's way overused. If abortion is expanded in PL, I just hope that people aren't going to use it as a crutch. I don't want women, or even men for that matter, to think why use a condom if I can just get an abortion if I'm going to get pregnant.

Nonetheless, the parties that often push for things like abortion, gay rights, etc. often due it because of a grander idea of population control. Of course there's going to be people in those groups who generally care about this cause or that. I'm all for gay people at least being protected and having access to medicine, jobs, etc. without being discriminated. My bother is more that many gays are way too open about something that should be left in the bedroom. I like doing certain kinky things with my girlfriend, but I'm not going to marching dressed like a sex doll or latex or leather costume demanding greater recognition for people with this or that fetish. Sex is left for the bedroom.. and this pushing of a pro-gay agenda which 1%, and at most 5% people participate in, shouldn't constantly bombard young children. Now in the US and even parts of EU in many schools esp if the teacher is liberal will teach very young children, even 7 8 years old whatever about homosexuality. One such indicident was rather famous in Canada as the kindergarten/1st grade teacher openly admitted she was pushing a pro-gay agenda on 7 year olds... That's what I'm against. Idc who someone marries, but leave the type of sex you have for the bedroom not the classroom. Also, don't force it down peoples' throats. If someone wants to live according to principles where they believe marriage is between man and woman, respect our values and opinion - just as we respect your values and opinions.
johnny reb 28 | 5,324
4 Oct 2017 #1,361
a fetus has no consciousness, so aborting one has less consequences

A fetus is a live human and yes there will eventually be consequences for killing one.
Only salvation lasts forever.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,721
4 Oct 2017 #1,362
I believe in God and the 10 commandments. There's several examples in the bible against using 'anti-contraceptives' of sorts (an example includes jacking off before 'laying' with your wife). If I was in a situation though where I got a girl pregnant I didn't intend to marry idk what I'd do. I'd respect her decision would prefer to keep the child and even put it up for adoption if we're both unready to get married and take care of the kid. Luckily, I've never had to make such a decision.

Abortion is apparently the largest killer of black babies. There's quite a few billboards on the eways around my area advertising this.
Lyzko 29 | 7,281
4 Oct 2017 #1,363
If abortion is the only thing which will save the woman's life, then naturally, it should be permitted. Like collecting unemployment benefits and abusing the privilege, abortion too is a privilege, but not a right which the abortor should take lightly.

Why throw out the baby with the bathwater(no pun intendedLOL)?
mafketis 24 | 9,385
5 Oct 2017 #1,364
Only salvation

There is no such thing, except at the personal ethical level.

Religion has no place in the discussion on the moral status of fetuses. Enacting laws on purely religious grounds is a violation of the separation of church and state.
Harry
5 Oct 2017 #1,365
A fetus is a live human

One of the defining characteristics of humans is that they do not need to suck the blood of a host in order to survive.

Religion has no place in the discussion on the moral status of fetuses.

Religion has no place in any discussion of mandatory morals.
johnny reb 28 | 5,324
5 Oct 2017 #1,366
Not according to everyone.
According to most, a living being starts at the moment the sperm makes contact with the egg.
This has been explained to you in depth many times previously.
And religion is where most first learn about morals so you are wrong on both your baiting statements.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
5 Oct 2017 #1,367
is a violation of the separation of church and state.

BS, that is a slogan people with no clue are dishing out like crazy.

ne of the defining characteristics of humans

stop talking everything you say is just BS.
johnny reb 28 | 5,324
5 Oct 2017 #1,368
The problem is Ironside is that Harry is not a Christian so therefore blind to the truth as are many on this forum.
It boils down to the Christians opinion vs. the non-Christians opinion.
Just consider the source.
kondzior 12 | 1,200
5 Oct 2017 #1,369
Kill your babies, whities. It's the right of a free, independent womans!

What? Your birth-rates are plummeting? Oy vey! You must take millions of rocket scientists and surgeons from Somalia to fix this!
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,721
5 Oct 2017 #1,370
At least someone gets it...

Hopefully the program of 500 zl a kid encourages birth rates. If you have 3 kids, you get not only 1,500 zl (not a small sum by PL standards esp in the east) but also like a big stipend for an apartment.

Thankfully Poles were wise enough to at least take in people from a similar culture, religion, etc to address the labor shortage, aging population, and so on. We've taken in essentially just as many migrants (over 1 million) as Germany yet we've had no terror attacks - people being blown up, mowed down with vans, shot up with AKs, etc.
Roger5 1 | 1,458
5 Oct 2017 #1,371
It always amuses me to hear people who would otherwise criticise welfare benefits praising them in Poland.
johnny reb 28 | 5,324
5 Oct 2017 #1,372
That could be because Poland does not offer the opportunities that America does.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,721
5 Oct 2017 #1,373
@Roger5

Welfare and child payments for extra children are two different things. Unlike the US system, Poland encourages that families stay together while the US system pretty much makes it so the father isn't present in the home. Also, unlike the US system, if someone is on welfare/unemployment in PL they actually have to look for work and it is checked up on unlike the bogus us system.

There's a famous story of a Japanese woman in UK was threatened with deportation despite being married to a Polish man. Anyway, in it she describes how they wanted her to pay back over 5k pounds in child support from the government... and this is despite that her husband is working
Ziemowit 13 | 4,282
5 Oct 2017 #1,374
If you have 3 kids, you get not only 1,500 zl (not a small sum by PL standards esp in the east)

Correction, if you have 3 kids, you get 1.000 zł since the first child is exempted from the programme unless the income per person in the family does not exceed 800 zł.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,721
5 Oct 2017 #1,375
I should've clarified yes it's if you make below a certain amount. I don't think though the 500 plus program has an income maximum for 2nd child and beyond though does it?
mafketis 24 | 9,385
5 Oct 2017 #1,376
This has been explained to you in depth many times previously.

You haven't 'explained' it, you simply keep repeating it. I don't believe it.

If someone doesn't want an abortion I certainly think they should not be compelled to have one. I don't want to force other people to follow my moral judgements. You do.

It boils down to the Christians opinion vs. the non-Christians opinion.

Yes, in this case the Christians want to force people to follow their beliefs. Intolerant!
johnny reb 28 | 5,324
5 Oct 2017 #1,377
Yes I have explained it to you but I can't make you understand it.
You have your mind made up.

I don't want to force other people to follow my moral judgements.

What moral judgment are you talking about.
There is nothing moral about murdering the innocent.

in this case the Christians want to force people to follow their beliefs.

Absolutely, it is our jobs as Christians to call sin what it is which is sin.
That is where your Satanic despondency to do what is right comes from Mafi.

I don't believe it.

Because you don't want to believe it.
We Christians understand completely how the unchristian can justify the sin of abortion.
johnny reb 28 | 5,324
5 Oct 2017 #1,378
force their opinions on non-believers

Killing the innocent and defenseless is a tad more than an opinion.
kondzior 12 | 1,200
6 Oct 2017 #1,379
Hopefully the program of 500 zl a kid encourages birth rates.

I already does. A year ago a pregnant woman was a rare sight. Now, during quick stroll around town, you'd encounter several women pushing strollers, with another baby visibly on the way.


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