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PiS - the first true Polish party in 100 years



TheOther 5 | 3,017    
5 Dec 2017  #61

Adrian, these countries have decided to protect their strategic industries for a simple reason: they are either totalitarian or extremely corrupt regimes, or there is a real outside threat that make this necessary (or both). What enemies does Poland have right now that justify such measures? Germany? Russia? That sounds paranoid, but I wouldn't be surprised given how Kaczyński and his party acted in the past. It's the same old playbook that Trump currently uses: you need an outside enemy (real or imaginary) to push your agenda through.


jon357 70 | 12,793    
5 Dec 2017  #62

they are either totalitarian or extremely corrupt regimes,

given how Kaczyński and his party acted in the past

There are some who genuininely hate freedom and prefer the certainty of the idea a one-party state, something they would loathe (and probably be locked up by) in reality.
Dirk diggler 5 | 1,421    
5 Dec 2017  #63

@TheOther

5th column. Pis is merely keeping campaign promises to decrease foreign ownership in key areas namely media and banks. We can't allow for foreigners to own majority stake in media and banks. It gives them too much power. Plus, these things should be in polish hands and millions of poles agree. Poles are sick and tired of Germans esp owning our media outlets. It's a downright shame that foreigners own so much polish media and say bad things about the people and country. It wouldn't happen at all if people like.michnik and certain po members selling their country out. Although from michbik it's to be expect his family killed polish ak patriots afterall

China is a shining example a rich prosperous country that Poland should increase ties with and emulate.
TheOther 5 | 3,017    
5 Dec 2017  #64

Pis is merely keeping campaign promises to decrease foreign ownership in key areas namely media and banks.

So how are they planning to do it? Confiscate everything? That would certainly be the end of the Polish economy as we know it. I'm surprised that you as an American libertarian support measures that were used almost exclusively by commies and other assorted dictatorships in the past.

We can't allow for foreigners to own majority stake in media and banks.

Why the change of heart after so many years? What's next? Grocery stores?

China is a shining example a rich prosperous country

A brutal totalitarian regime. That's a shining example for Poland?

prefer the certainty of the idea a one-party state

Don't worry and stop using your brain ... the party will take care of everything ...
Dirk diggler 5 | 1,421    
5 Dec 2017  #65

@TheOther

No just banks and media. Key sectors not grocery stores clothing factories etc

Yes they should remove people who are working against the interest of poles and they've already kicked a lot of traitors out

I never said anything about confiscation. There's a difference between total ownership and a majority stake which is what pis campaigned on and is enacting

China's regime is not brutal. Yes an extremely wealthy developed country who is basically colonizing Africa and building a road from China to Europe is a shining example. China is passing up even the us slowly but surely.

Western Europe and us are losing their clout more and more. Us atlwast has Trump which will help put things in order but the country has too much debt and freeloaders. Once the dollar is replaced by a basket currency it's over. The new power now is Russia China and Iran. Even India is moving closer to Russia now.
cms 9 | 1,171    
5 Dec 2017  #66

Banks was in their election programme but there was no mention as I recall of the media. We have been without satellite and WiFi for a few days and so I just had a brief experiment of what life would be like with just TVP. I presume you know these days that it's easy to set up a tv station anywhere and stream it into Poland - Or is the Internet also on the list of things to appropriate ?

I don't think the foreign capital in banks is 2/3rds and I can think of only 1 of the top 10 banks that is Germany owned - 4 are Polish owned including the two biggest.
TheOther 5 | 3,017    
5 Dec 2017  #67

I never said anything about confiscation.

You misunderstood; that was just a question I had. Let me rephrase it: how do they plan to bring banks and media back under Polish control? That you seem to be okay with government interference in the free market all of a sudden is what really surprises me.
SigSauer 1 | 260    
5 Dec 2017  #68

@TheOther

These banks and media outlets can be dealt with by the free market, there is no need for the heavy hand of government to get involved. We vote with our dollars, so if the banks and media outlets are exposed for peddling and dealing in anti-Polish sentiment, they can be dealt with. Much the same as Hungary has done with an advertising campaign against George Soros, there is no need to shutter his NGOs, exposing them will suffice, and trusting the citizens to be intelligent enough to draw their own conclusions.
Dirk diggler 5 | 1,421    
5 Dec 2017  #69

@TheOther

Easy, force the foreigners usually germans to sell their shares then resell them to polish owned businesses and polish people. Fire people who badmouth Poland like pis has done by cleaning up tvp.

Also, continue raiding offices and seizing computers and files by Soros affiliates like the security apparatus has done. Charge traitors with corruption like is happening now in warsaw. Have the ABW monitor anyone who is affiliated with such subversive groups.

A free market is fine but some sectors namely banking and media should be off limits for foreigners to own a majority stake. Thankfully millions of poles feel the same way and this was one of his campaign promises which they are keeping their word on
Ironside 46 | 8,406    
5 Dec 2017  #70

What enemies does Poland have right now that justify such measures? Germany? Russia? That sounds paranoid

Really? What do you know? Not much.

how do they plan to bring banks and media back under Polish control?

Why you ask HIM? Is he some kind of an insider?
Dirk diggler 5 | 1,421    
5 Dec 2017  #71

Poland expects more foreign bank owners to sell their holdings in the country in 2017 following UniCredit's (CRDI.MI) sale of the country's second largest lender, Deputy Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said on Wednesday.

reuters.com/article/us-poland-politics-crisis/poland-expects-more-foreign-owners-to-sell-banks-in-2017-idUSKBN14A0SQ

ft.com/content/f7283548-5cd1-11e7-b553-e2df1b0c3220

Percentage of Foreign Banks Among Total Banks for Poland
fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DDOI13PLA156NWDB

But yes, only 1/3 of capital within PL is actually Polish owned - rest is mostly German. That's not a problem, but we have to make sure our banks are ours - meaning we hold at least 51%.
TheOther 5 | 3,017    
5 Dec 2017  #72

Why you ask HIM? Is he some kind of an insider?

No, but unlike YOU Adrian is actually living in Poland. So why can't I ask him what PiS is suggesting?

Easy, force the foreigners usually germans to sell their shares then resell them to polish owned businesses and polish people.

That's commie talk. How do you want to force them, and what has happened to your "get the government out of our lives" approach all of a sudden?

so if the banks and media outlets are exposed for peddling and dealing in anti-Polish sentiment

And if there's nothing to expose? Make something up like Trump does all the time? That's a very slippery slope

Really? What do you know? Not much.

Yeah, yeah ... you always know so much more than anybody else on this forum. Know-it-all ... :)
mafketis 16 | 4,840    
5 Dec 2017  #73

No, but unlike YOU Adrian is actually living in Poland

No. I think he spends most of his time in the US and visits a time or two a year (while planning an eventual return).
TheOther 5 | 3,017    
5 Dec 2017  #74

Oh, I thought Adrian has moved to Wrocław already. That's at least what his profile says.
Anyway, my point still stands. If Ironside is such a smartass he could've simply answered the question.
Dirk diggler 5 | 1,421    
5 Dec 2017  #75

"get the government out of our lives"

That was referring to the US, not Poland. The government in PL is doing almost everything correctly.

How do you want to force them

Well, Poland is already gaining more and more stake in its media and banks through multiple ways so whatever they're doing keep it up.

what PiS is suggesting?

I don't know what PiS has in mind or what will happen. I can only go by things they've said and what they've actually done. Unfortunately in politics, words often mean little. PiS though is actually keeping most of its campaign promises. We'll see though what actions are taken. So far, I think they're doing a wonderful job. Better than Trump in the US anyway although he has so many democrat and even republican obstructionists its surprising he's been able to do so much as it is with such opposition. Hopefully tax cuts are next as I am sick and tired for paying for freeloaders. When he said people work 2-3 jobs and live next to someone who's on welfare and yet has a nicer car, it's certainly true a lot of the times. There are way to many lazy bums. Over 80 million Americans aged 16-65 are unemployed and don't want to work according to the US department of labor.

Also, a person can have more than 1 home...
Ironside 46 | 8,406    
5 Dec 2017  #76

you always know so much more than anybody else on this forum. Know-it-al

I know more than you. Its about geopolitical reality in this part of the world as well as interests at play.
Talk about paranoia wins you a prize for ignorance and cluelessness. Let it sink in.
TheOther 5 | 3,017    
6 Dec 2017  #77

Talk about paranoia

Talking about a possible German or Russian aggression is batshit crazy. We are not living in the 1930's anymore, in case you haven't noticed.

I know more than you

How old are you, Iron? 12?
Dirk diggler 5 | 1,421    
6 Dec 2017  #78

@TheOther

Threat still comes from Germany. A leftist party of the 30s and 40s has simply been replaced by another leftist party that also seeks to harm Poland. Instead of hitler we have merkels. Instead of storm troopers, Germany now wants to send us migrants

Russia yes as we can clearly see from Ukraine. Russia also keeps it's little 3 Baltic neighbors by constantly hacking tjem and using propoganda. Estonia has a huge russian minority. Russia may not be an outright enemy of Poland and vice versa but that doesn't mean were friendly... unfortunately imo... id much rather see Poland with Russia and other Slavic nations than Germany and Brussels but alas it is what it is. At least v4 and 3 seas is now expanding more and more. Ukrainians are actually among the biggest supporters of an intermarium union with poland
Ironside 46 | 8,406    
6 Dec 2017  #79

Talking about a possible German

Germans have other means and ways. Military if we talk about Germany is rather far fetched. Russian would if they would have thought that they are gonna get way with it -cheaply.

Anyway I was talking about power play and interests at play here that puts Poland in conflict both with Germany and Russia, whereas interests make them prone to corporate. There plenty of examples.

How old are you, Iron? 12?

Indeed. You are about 70 are you not?
Dirk diggler 5 | 1,421    
6 Dec 2017  #80

@Ironside

They don't need military means to screw up Poland. They do it by supporting po, ngos, kod and sticking their nose into our affairs. There was even a report that was released recently like a week ago on how Germany is trying to undermine the polish government. That further soured relations between pl and Germany. Poles aren't inserting their people and ideas into Germany yet the same can't be said for germany
TheOther 5 | 3,017    
6 Dec 2017  #81

A leftist party of the 30s and 40s has simply been replaced by another leftist party that also seeks to harm Poland

Which one? The CDU? You know that Merkel's party is conservative and politically much closer to Republicans than Democrats, right?

Russian would if they would have thought that they are gonna get way with it

But they can't because every conflict with a NATO member would automatically turn into a nuclear war. Therefore it's nonsense to even talk about a Russian threat to Poland.

power play and interests at play here that puts Poland in conflict both with Germany and Russia

Every nation plays games, but Poland gets in conflict with the whole EU at the moment. Not very clever to bite the hand that feeds you - and I'm not talking about the subsidies.

You are about 70 are you not?

I'm younger than you ... 11 ... but much more mature... :)
Ironside 46 | 8,406    
6 Dec 2017  #82

But they can't because every conflict with a NATO member would automatically turn into a nuclear war. Therefore it's nonsense to even talk about a Russian threat to Poland.

No it is not. There is always such a possibility, not matter how remote, its good people are aware of it.

Not very clever to bite the hand that feeds you

WTF? What is wrong with you and that repetitive BS? Not a one fortune had been made in the west, but not only, due to Poland opening it market. Quite a few of those beneficiaries are based on the east coast.

There is no favors here. So stop this belittling disrespectful shite talk, it make you sound like bloody jealous Kraut!
Right now the EU is more of the burden to Poland.
mafketis 16 | 4,840    
6 Dec 2017  #83

every conflict with a NATO member would automatically turn into a nuclear war

I'm sure that if Russia invaded part of some Baltic Republic (Latvia or Estonia to 'save' Russians or Lithuan to create a corridor to Kaliningrad) then then NATO would suddenly find reasons to not do very much...
Dirk diggler 5 | 1,421    
6 Dec 2017  #84

@mafketis

Of course. Eu cant even comtrol the muslims burning french cities and raping thousands of european girls yer theyre gonna stand up to Putin's Russia? No way lol. Sadly, they couldnt even help ukraine despite the budapest agreememt. Poland is going to turn into a wasteland again if a war between NATO and Russia broke out
OP Ktos 13 | 391    
8 Dec 2017  #85

@Ironside

Germans have other means and ways. Military if we talk about Germany is rather far fetched. Russian would if they would have thought that they are gonna get way with it -cheaply.

Hahaha Germans have other means and ways? Where did you learn history? You think Germans changed and they care about reputation? Germans are deceitful but just like Russians they will attack if they know they will get away with it - history repeats, world has not changed that much. PiS talk of imminent threat by Russia is only an excuse to buy weapons from Americans - a special deal we know little about, it is a part of global weapons trade. Russia may be a threat but not current. However, it is not Russia that encroaches upon our territory like Germany does, buying out everything possible, including media - a different kind of invasion, military one may follow. Let's not forget that not long ago Silesia was to be sold to Germany.
OP Ktos 13 | 391    
8 Dec 2017  #86

Poland being located next to one of the world's biggest thief and murderer countries has to expect that Germany will eventually attack, especially if it can not drain Poland from its resources anymore due to politically designed blockages. In order to justify the attack, Germany can, just like USA always does to other countries, make Poland appear as a threat to Europe's "democracy" that needs to be neutralised.
TheOther 5 | 3,017    
8 Dec 2017  #87

NATO would suddenly find reasons to not do very much...

I hope we will never find out.

There is no favors

Without membership in the EU, without access to the common market, and without foreign companies investing heavily in Poland because of its EU membership, the country would still be a backward nation with a crappy infrastructure and no competitive industries to speak of. You know that, I know that. Tell me, why did you leave Poland? No future? There you go...

Right now the EU is more of the burden to Poland.

Leave and let's see if Poland can stand on her own feet.

you sound like bloody jealous Kraut!

You sound like a toddler throwing a tantrum.
Ironside 46 | 8,406    
8 Dec 2017  #88

the country would still be a backward nation with a crappy infrastructure and no competitive industries to speak of

A lot of assumptions. Poland would do fine without EU. Your opinion is just your opinion. I won't waste time to argue with some stuck up 70 years old dude whose all knowledge about Poland is outdated and stereotypical..

Tell me, why did you leave Poland?

That's is no secret, I'm could stand Poland run by commies, mafia, crooks, opportunists and Soviet Military Intelligence....

Sure Poland should leave the EU.

You sound like a toddler throwing a tantrum.

tks tks you know well you stubborn old man, talking the same old Sh... for years here, smack yourself few times around your gob if you cannot be bother to learn anything new in your old age.
delphiandomine 87 | 15,756    
8 Dec 2017  #89

Poland would do fine without EU.

20% unemployment and an average wage of 2200zł/month in 2003.
Ironside 46 | 8,406    
8 Dec 2017  #90

After 20 years of wide open market to be exploited by the EU nations without any state to keep it in check.




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