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Mieszkania Plus programme - PiS fulfills yet another campaign promise


Harry
4 Jun 2016 #31
PiS on the other hand are committed, determined and sincere

Remind us what happened to the prosecutor who decided he needed to open an investigation into the criminal refusal of PIS to publish court decisions they disagree with.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
4 Jun 2016 #32
publish court decisions

Only legally adopted decisions need be published. Illicit ones like those of the Rzepliński kangaroo court are but worthless scraps of paper.
Supernovus
5 Jun 2016 #33
Party membership will come with the ability to be mysteriously placed at the top of the list.

Under condition of perfect freedom, we've lived up to now, both the rich and the poor have had equal right to sleep under the bridge - needless to say the last took the opportunity. For those who do not want to sleep under the bridge party membership is not a bad option.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
5 Jun 2016 #34
criminal refusal of PIS to publish court decision

I'm not familiar with that particular case but the MO sounds like pure Machievelli. Adminstrators adminsiter, judges rule and assorterd clerks all know what side they're bread is buttererd on and usually act accordingly if they know what's good for them. The Kamil Zaradkiewicz issue is a case in point. He voiced his own opinion not coinciding with Rzepliński's and is being pushed out of the TK. In the US if anyone dares disagree with the one, true and unquestionable LGBT agenda, they also risk losing their job. It's as old as the hills.
Harry
5 Jun 2016 #35
Illicit ones like those of the Rzepliński kangaroo court are but worthless scraps of paper.

To those who favour the rule of the Party over the rule of law, such decisions might only be scraps of paper; but to the Polish court system and to all those who don't want Poland to have another unelected dictator those decisions are completely valid.
Supernovus
5 Jun 2016 #36
unelected dictator

Who do you mean?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
5 Jun 2016 #37
nother unelected

He was democratically elected, wasn't he? You may not like him, but that's tough sh*t!
Harry
5 Jun 2016 #38
He was democratically elected, wasn't he?

The man which the lovers of PIS refer to as the Dear Leader, Chairman Kaczynski, has not won any election. 18% of Poles voted for a government to be led by a woman who now clearly takes orders from Chairman Kaczynski. 28% of Poles voted for a President who now makes late night visits to Chairman Kaczynski's house whenever summoned.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
5 Jun 2016 #39
18%

And what percentage voted for the scamster PO party?
Harry
5 Jun 2016 #40
what percentage

Infinitely more than the percentage of Poles who will get a house under this laughable project, but it's entirely understandable that you don't want to talk about the topic of this thread and the problems with this project glaringly obvious to all those who understand enough about economics to know that unfunded promises are utterly worthless.

Back on topic please
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
5 Jun 2016 #41
unfunded promises

Part of the funding is that these estates will be built on free state-owned land.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
5 Jun 2016 #42
The land isn't "free" - it actually belongs to all of us. If it's being given away to people, then it represents a loss to the government. The land has a value, so what's happening here is that the government are giving away public property.

But anyway, this plan requires private investment, which means state-owned companies will be forced to buy government bonds to pay for the building of the properties.
Supernovus
5 Jun 2016 #43
A Flawed Birth. Reportage on the Architecture of the People's Republic of Poland - woth to look if not read

Portraits of well known architects of socialist time, such as Marek Leykam, Jerzy Hryniewski, Zofia and Oskar Hansen, Mieczyslaw Krol, Halina Skibniewska. The book tries to explain how they had to adjust to the system of the centrally-planned economy, to the rigid norms and available technologies.

Springer's next book about housing is 13 floors. The book gives perspective on the problem of house shortage, beginning from the prewar times to the present. The only program, which addressed the problem was that of the '70s.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
5 Jun 2016 #44
loss to the government.

Of course, you know a better way to build affordable flats needed to house 1.5 million people. Be sure to share it with Morawiecki. Somehow all of the post-roundtable governments so far have not resolved that shortage.
Supernovus
5 Jun 2016 #45
Jerzy Hryniewiecki not Jerzy Hryniewski, in case you will be looking for more information. Sorry.

polskieradio.pl/9/396/Artykul/1487785,Filip-Springer-o-tym-co-tak-naprawde-znaczy-mieszkac-na-swoim

The link to the radio programme about Filip Springer's book about housing problem.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
5 Jun 2016 #46
They are quoting rents of about 1000zl plus rates for a standard flat. Outside of the bigger cities thats a standard rent. You might say yes but these will be new flats, more desirable. Well you can take similar money in the small cities and the flats are always rented within a couple of days. So, the conclusion to draw is that they are targeting families living in bigger cities where rents are 2 to 3 grand per month, making the PIS plan rate of a grand a good deal. But living in a bigger city means you are likely earning a better wage and can afford to pay a bit more rent. Those working in villages are forced to live in them, in old run down properties or communist blocks. Its these smaller cities that could do with housing at competitive rents for those cities. But I suppose these people will already be PIS voters so they dont matter to them. Its a shame as small towns and villages have been badly left behind on the whole and could do with such programs. Improving the periphery provides a stronger back bone to the bigger cities and makes the chain stronger, less volatile and less prone to bear market size crashes.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
5 Jun 2016 #47
So, the conclusion to draw is that they are targeting families living in bigger cities where rents are 2 to 3 grand per month, making the PIS plan rate of a grand a good deal.

The proof will be in what actually gets constructed. They've already said that potential renters should not expect to get modern, high quality apartments but rather functional ones - which means prefabricated, modular and with very little green space. If they're not located near city centres, near good roads or near good public transport connections, then they'll be even more undesirable.

Can't speak for all cities, but I'm wondering where this state-owned land actually is. There's a lot in rural areas, but for instance - in Poznań and Wrocław, I can't think of any large areas that are state-owned and not city-owned, except military land to the north.
Sparks11 - | 335
5 Jun 2016 #48
I believe that under the new land laws regarding sale of farmland, the state can take your land if you do something "illegal" like sell it to the wrong person or leave it fallow for too long. Have to look at it again but I'm pretty sure that's in there. So, take other's land, build ****** apartments on it. The new plan
cms 9 | 1,271
6 Jun 2016 #49
I think the only way this can work is by being banked heavily by the state owned institutions like PZU and PKO. problem is that neither are the limitless pot of money that Kaczynski thinks.

PZU esepcially has since profits half over the last 12 months - I am about to dump the stock, have held it for many years, - PO appointed management was also incompetent but at least had some understanding of insurance and most importantly paid nice dividends - now I see that new management, fresh from their PGR wish to cut the dividends and make them buy Pekao - I'm offski.

i dont think the land can ne very desirable - there is certainly not much good free land within 10k of any many city center and if there was I'm sure PO would have already sold it for shopping malls. Could be old industrial sites but they have serious contamination issues.


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