Jarosław Kaczyński sharing his words with Russians!

Dougpol is clearly a f*cking infidel and the holy book clearly states we need to purge his arse, seriously where's inquisition and political police when you need them.

On a more serious note Dougpol you've blasted us with your "opinion" that most Poles find tastless, are you really any kind of contribution to Poland? If you raise your kids in that "objective" spirit feck no.

So why did the British apologise then, if there was nothing to apologise for? (in your view)


Because I criticise your backward looking self pity you mean? I already stated that Katyn was a war crime - one of the worst.

Some Poles would never be satisfied until it was given number one status on the all time horror list, so much do they enjoy a car smash type scenario. Fair enough; I've made my opinion clear that you do yourselves no favours if you bring up the same subject at every conceivable diplomatic opportunity.

Oh boy are you wrong!
With such a state of mind there will never be any reconciliation nor closure...but as the process of the rebuilding of the Frauenkirche showed the majority wants and sees it differently.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4391388.stm

have you completely lost your freakin' mind? You think you know what Poles find tasteless??

So could you quote the official text of the Russian apology for Katyn?


Are you sure you didn't mean to post the above on some Jewish holocaust forums?

And yet Russia has shown that with the right amount of diplomacy and tact, they're willing to talk about Katyn as well. Trying to constantly blame EVIL RUSSIA does nothing but antagonise them - but careful, pragmatic diplomacy will undoubtably yield many of the answers that people want.

Trying to "force" Russia into giving the answers just seems like a guaranteed recipe for failure.

After how many years of f*cking with Poland?


Given that i'm one of several Poles who point out that dougpols opinion amounts to a steaming pile of organic fertilizer, yeah i'm statistical in my opinion here.

JK is doing his part by towing the line of hope and for closer cooperation but I think he sees that Tusk and Komorowski are using this as a platform from which to jump. You can be rest assured that JK still has a healthy amount of cynicism in him and that he will be monitoring developments. I can't imagine him being too chuffed that Putin is at the helm of the investigation. They played the card of 'utmost earnesty' in appointing Putin but it is not on a secure legal footing. There needs to be a more independent guy fulfilling that role.

PO wont allow that, i bet they had a part in Kaczyńskis murder.


Who hasnt? The point is he made a rigth move at the right time.

I wouldn't be surprised, that's for sure. Just today on a Polish portal, there were experts saying that it is highly improbable that the pilot made a mistake. Also, the black boxes have been decrypted so where are the transcripts? This is authority having a laugh with the public again.

JK has every right to comment as it was his twin brother that regrettably perished. However, others have jumped forward and are looking for some favour or other.

Place your bets!

They're at the top of the polish power tier, if sh*t goes down people like Tusk will know something, how much and what part if any they have in it is another question.


This is not USA, Poles being a smarter breed of human beings will keep digging.

That was an unfair comment, Sok. There are many top service and ex-service people in the US that have dug very deep on the 9/11 issue. Republican patriots I might add. You of all people should understand the dynamic of the Press as I seem to recall that you work in that area. The days of complete and largely unfettered freedoms are behind us. The Press and pressure groups have provided disincentives to speaking too openly. In Poland, you can say more without any axes hanging over your head.

Many have covered most of the angles already, it's all out there so what further digging do you mean?

What was unfair? Poles are smarter than an average American, then again my 10 day old crap is smarter as well, even our reaction was far better and questions began instantly rather then months after.


Where's the articles in NY Times? What came of it?


Yeah and it attempted to manipulate Poles into "lets unite and not go crazy with theories" vibe, didnt work at all, virtually everyone is convinced the thing reeks of foul play.


Home territory, there's people in Poland who know more then we this moment, the second political wind changes they'll be located and made to spill the beans, Poland is a LOT more unforgiving than US no one is going to let it lie for longer then a year or two.

Fair point, many were slow off the blocks in America and the press bombarded people into believing that it was OBL, the bearded wonder. Thanks to folks like Seymour Hersh, that started to change. I meant that many experienced servicemen and women lent their expertise to the 911 Truth Movement and 'dug' deep too.

You can hardly compare the death of 3,000 people with the death of a President and senior government officials. In magnitude terms, many more died in America but I mean in terms of international relations and sheer seniority of people. Where are the black box transcripts?? ;) ;) You were promised them on 22/04 and gówno macie :( Rzepa is a turnip indeed, LOL

If it reeks and people have access to the Net, where is the cogent storyline showing the conspiracy to be the right tack?

Yeah but they work under certain constraints and you know that as well as I do. The shackles are on them and they won't divulge the whole contents of those black boxes, just edited choice cuts. Just look at how quickly Tusk embraced Russia and how Putin physically embraced him. A job well done??

We've already had this discussion Seanus. You and me obviously share the opinion that Poland is a nice place to live - especially if you love the outdoor life. But obviously we differ as to the cause of this accident.

The only real character defect in the hard working and sociable Pole is that he likes to take risks; that's all it was, along the same lines of what very likely happened to Sikorsky.

But everything has to be conspiracy theory, to give some amusement and sell copy, just like a vision of the Madonna appearing on some bleak hillside, and I'm amazed and tickled pink that you would choose to go along with it. :)

The thing is - pilots do make mistakes. I know it's difficult for people to accept, but there are countless incidents where experienced pilots have quite literally ****** up -

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_flight_into_terrain#Notable_accidents

for instance. Let's not forget that even some of the greatest have managed this - Steve Fossett anyone?

Personally, when the Polish haven't even released their preliminary report yet, all this talk of WE WANT THE TRUTH is rather premature. We still don't know what will be released, we have no idea what theories they're working on - in fact, we know nothing, except idle speculation.

People really should wait instead of jumping to conclusions.

How do we obviously differ? I am merely saying that we shouldn't overlook the examination of evidence, far from it. This conspiracy label is absurd as Dave Von Klondyke said. I prefer to scrutinise the evidence based on source and on a broad-based sweep.

If you are familiar with res noviter veniens ad notitiam then you will know where I am coming from. It translates as 'matters coming to light' and we need to learn the lesson of 9/11. Screeds of stuff came out, the credibility of which was left to our discerning eyes and minds.

I disagree, delph. The official report is handpicked stuff anyway, we saw that from the Omission Report of 9/11. I, for one, have left the issue mostly alone as I have no faith in authority to put out what really happened. They can issue copies of the black boxes all they wish, I won't be too concerned with them.

Ask the military prosecutors, they have the transcripts...

You make a good point, the Tupalev aircraft that he was flying has had a history of problems and crashes. The reason it will be a conspiracy is that Tupalev is a Russian business and it may have been an inside job. Though, I do believe the RP could have set aside a funds to buy a new airplane for the most important man in the country. Don't you think

O come on BB. i know you really agree with me on this one. how can you fight an enemy that fights a total war? War cannot be won by the only side that sticks to the rules. Winning the war, is the first, second and last priority. What was the alternative the, sacrificing of a greater number of foot soldiers for some abstract unrealistic ideal?

in personal life, it is no use a gentleman trying to out do a cad, if they have different views of the world and ways of doing things. You have use language others understand in whatever capacity that might be.

As so often in these things the innocent suffer, but think about it would you prefer your own innocent to suffer more than the enemies? Just because you hold some quaint notions, how would you explain that to the public at home?

If you think about it its only common sense.


Because they had and still do have the most idiotically moronic government in modern British history in the form of the Labour Party.

A party that seeks to apologize for the Irish potato famine, a biological event, on the one hand. And not for the invasion of Iraq on a lie on the other.

I could go on and on and on. So please spare me.

I already posted some stats - yes, there is a bit larger ratio of crashes to a number of planes manufactured if compared with, say, B-737, but if you thoroughly look - there is just a few accidents where aircraft failure was blamed - mostly stupid human errors. And quite a lot of them - small airlines in Asia.

BTW, I recently flown from Moscow to Beijing, then to Hong Kong, then to Taipei and back - and wish to note that two landings on which I doesn't noted touchdown at all was Aeroflot flights - chinese pilots from Cathay Pacific/Dragonair dropped plane to runway much more agressive way. Also remembered my previous experience with Air Asia and Singapore airlines - also quite harsh landings, compared to Finnair, Aeroflot or Lufthansa flights. Yes, it is just my own observations, but someone else may share their own experience.

I'm not going to make judgement on the Tupolev aircraft because I've never flown them and it seems they might have gotten some unfair ratings due to reasons beyond the manufacturer's control (terrorism, poor navigation and communication training in some of the Asian countries, etc.).

Either way Velund, please tell me that you don't judge a pilot's training, knowledge and proficiency on the smoothness of the landings??? That's like judging an author on the color of the ink he/she used to write the book.

Amazing, I've talked to so many other pilots and we always wonder about the fascination the general public has with a smooth landing. The crew might have busted every regulation out there, flown above the ref speed, below the glideslope, and touched-down halfway down the runway while trying to "milk" a smooth landing out of the bird; every pilot and FAA inspector will look at it as stupid, dangerous and ridiculous but the passengers will say, damn he/she's good! Didn't even feel the touchdown. LOL

Also, to defend the Cathay pilots, some of them still use the Kai Tak airport (closed now) procedures which basically treat the airport as a "short field" -"asphalt in front of you is your friend."

I do not judge overall pilots skills by landings, of course, but it is only thing that I can feel - glideslope is not drawn in the air and I do not see speed indications on a display in front of me during landing. ;) But there is another reason why I don't like harsh landings - there was special course in my university about non-destructive structural defects diagnostics, materials fatigue, etc, etc. And I believe that if some extreme loads can be avoided safely - they should be avoided. (BTW: more than half of gamma-ray and ultrasonic images with various types of hidden cracks and other internal defects that professor displayed to students was related to space vehicles and aircrafts - probably because there is a lot of such checks done on that stuff).

Maybe really asian pilots trained to treat any runway as short field, cannot say anything about this. But I just feel the difference..

True, I guess not many indications in the back for sure. Many years ago American had a camera mounted upfront so the passengers could watch what the pilots saw, but they don't have it anymore...

PS. I'm not implying all Asian pilots (few Cathay pilots are Asian by the way ;) are trained to land hard. Some are, but I've also experienced some really cushy ones on Singapore Airlines for example.

You're right about avoiding unnecessary stress on the airframe. I'd imagine that average turbulence or flight through some weather will put more stress on it than a hard landing but it's all relative of course...

Hey comrade,

F RuSSia. Gee I wonder why you give a crap about this backward nation?

I WONDER WHY?

In the light of 70-year commie progress this sounds like a compliment.

youtu.be/D7HqOrAakco

youtu.be/-CvQOuNecy4

The same video with the English subtitles