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10,000 ISRAELIS READY TO CLAIM FOR POLISH CITIZENSHIP AND POLISH LAND!


irishdeano 5 | 304
20 Nov 2007 #31
im not being racist against saying that they should not get a polish passport. its just like giving half america an irish passport you just cant do it
Zeze 9 | 79
20 Nov 2007 #32
i know Poles dont like jews

but you know those Poles are low level lifes so I dont care but what they think about us jews

is the end the jews rule the world !!!
celinski 31 | 1,258
29 Nov 2007 #33
This is not just Jewish claims, here is an artical about Germans making claims 2006. I also know of claims for Polish that were taken from eastern Poland (now Ukraine) and a deadline of 12/2008. I felt this artical shines light on more than Jewish claims and who should be responsable. My personal take is that the USA, Great Britian and USSR were the ones to make the call as to who gets what, maybe they should pay the tab? Carol

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

Recent German Claims Against Poland
Krzysztof Rak and Mariusz MuszyƄski

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

Poland is probably the only country in which large fractions of the national elites permit unreasonable demands from abroad to be made against the nation, and question the necessity of structuring one's responses to the world in terms of national interest.

ruf.rice.edu/~sarmatia/407/272krzyst.html
Frank 23 | 1,183
29 Nov 2007 #34
If it was stolen off them......and at the time they were Polish citizens, and now they are the children/grandchildren of same, they are just as entitled as the next Polish person to restitution.

If you suggest otherwise, then you are as guilty as the Nazis and Russians of taking it off them!
celinski 31 | 1,258
29 Nov 2007 #35
I aggree Thank you Frank, Carol
Filios1 8 | 1,343
29 Nov 2007 #36
know Poles dont like jews

but you know those Poles are low level lifes so I dont care but what they think about us jews

is the end the jews rule the world !!!

Zeze, thats EXACTLY the reason why there are Poles who dislike Jews, because most Jews are power hungry slime.
Frank 23 | 1,183
29 Nov 2007 #37
Filios1

.....................gee......such rational....................reflects so well on you................as a troll........!
Filios1 8 | 1,343
29 Nov 2007 #38
I'm not a troll, he was the troll with a message like that
Frank 23 | 1,183
29 Nov 2007 #39
Trolls x 2.............................cap fits........wear it with shame.......
Maat - | 21
29 Nov 2007 #40
Not like the Jews kicked out xx k's of Arabs from Israeli when they "reclaimed it" after 2000 years... I dont think that people leaving in Israel during those 2000 years got a penny from Jewish. Personally Im not a racist but things like this make my blood boil, they cry everywhere about being abused, murdered and robbed but when it comes to talking abut Israeli nuclear weapons, illigal prisoners [Muslims mostly], and all the other fun stuf they suddenly go into silence mode... Im just pissed that they use US military [includeing me] for their own wars in middle east and such, theres just too much politics in this so as for me I dont mind Polish goverment dragging fit in this case.

bout paying, wasnt it the germany who startd the war in the first place...
Filios1 8 | 1,343
29 Nov 2007 #41
Not like the Jews kicked out xx k's of Arabs from Israeli when they "reclaimed it" after 2000 years...

Good points there my friend.. I don't consider myself a racist, but I fully understand why the Jews are so hated in the Middle East and elsewhere.
Maat - | 21
29 Nov 2007 #42
Well, Id risk saying that a lot of people hate Jews, but most of them have reasons for that, they "worked" hard for that over the time, simple example would be "The Passion" and the noise Jewish people made around that movie for "showing Jews in a bad light", well considering the fact that most of the movie was made on things that happened [or are assumed to happen by most people] Id say its a poor cover up. I could talk a lot about this kinda stff, I dont even pay much attention to this but a lot of people I know do, I definitly wouldnt call them racist and still I keep hearing the same things from them when it comes to Jews case, and dont count on me if Muslims decide to attack Israeli again [usually somehow for unknown reasons UK, USA, France and other countries send load of military to help that poor country of extreamly reach people...].
Softsong 5 | 495
30 Nov 2007 #43
I understood that all the "resettlements" after WWII were results of the Potsdam Treaty. So I like the idea of those countries sharing whatever compensation would be deemed fit.

I am descended from Poles and ethnic Germans who were born and lived in Poland.
Doing genealogy, I met a man who was about 14 yrs old when the war was ending. He and his parents were poor farmers and managed to buy a tiny farm over a period of many years. I know that some, maybe a lot of ethnic Germans cooperated with the Nazis, but many were loyal Polish citizens.

After generations of living in Poland and never having set foot in Germany, it was hard to move there and lose everything. Their language had stayed the same as hundreds of years ago, and they were not considered Germans in Germany by many. And they, as well as ethnic Polish citizens were all subject to capture by the Russians. It was a horrible time for all. Anyway, they left their farm in the winter with everything on their backs and witnessed frozen dead bodies, bridges being bombed.

In the eighties, this man visited Poland and found his family's old farm. It had been settled with Poles from the east. And he made friends, particularly with the teen that lived there. He was about the same age as this teen when he lived there. They were poor, too. He is fairly well-off now, having emmigrated to Canada from Germany. Every year he sends Christmas presents and birthday gifts for the children. He could have felt angry and wanted reparations, but he is just happy that he is o.k. and they are o.k. I wish more were like him.

And he says that living in Poland, Germany and Canada, when he hears a national anthem, the only one that moves his heart is the Polish anthem. Anyway, many ethnic Germans were like this and had nothing to do with starting the war. Just thought a story that had suffering, but ended well would be inspirational.
Puzzler 9 | 1,089
30 Nov 2007 #44
Hello, Softsong. Thanks for your post.
Softsong 5 | 495
30 Nov 2007 #45
Czesc Puzzler! Glad you liked the post. :-)
szmata - | 23
4 Dec 2007 #46
Happy Chanukah all of you chosen peoples
celinski 31 | 1,258
4 Dec 2007 #47
The Polish goverment is made up of Jews as well,

Why is it always abot the "Jewish", my family are "Roman Catholic". First the Jewish left us out of the holocaust, now they forget we also lost our homes. Why is it we don't see Roman/Greek Catholic's Poles, "living is country's they were deported to" are ready to claim Polish Citizenship and Polish Land. Well they still hold dual citizenship if born there and their children can get citizenship from that parent. Now the land on the other hand.

Lets see my group just includes Poland front line WW1 soliders. Most like my grandfather also fought WW2 after amnesty. He was born in Rzym, Poland in 1900. Why do we not hear of non Jews that were forgotten? Are they getting their homes back? No, they may get a percentage of the lands worth.

We have until 12/2008 to place a claim. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against people of the Jewish faith. It is just time they stopped thinking they are the only ones that suffered. Jewish family's have a name,"Holocaust" for what happened. To bad they couldn't include"Our Forgotten Polish" , that I pray will be named. We fought for a free Poland and where are we today?

Roman Catholic Polish, Carol USA
z_darius 14 | 3,968
4 Dec 2007 #48
If it was stolen off them......and at the time they were Polish citizens, and now they are the children/grandchildren of same, they are just as entitled as the next Polish person to restitution.

I don't think we are dealing with theft here. Not by Poles, and not in all cases anyway. Poland was invaded by Germans, remember? Needless to say, after the war the rightful owners either owned ruins or they were dead.

Moreover, not only many properties were destroyed, but also the documentation proving ownership. The damage was done by Germans, not by Poles. This prsesents a difficult situation as there may be (and have already been) a lot of fraudulent claims.

I personally knew a group of NYC Jews who planned to claim some properties they used to own, but were not legaly elligible to get them back. Here's an example (true) story they told me (I will use fake names):

Ytzhak was a Polish Army officer before WW2. They family owned a large store in North East Poland. In 1938 they got the wind of troubles to come, so they sold the store, bought gold and a modest property in Warsaw. On September 1 when hell broke loose they went to Hungary and from there to France and finally the US, now mostly living around Great Neck, NY area.

When Poland, in 1989, finally shed the Soviet occupation, the country became open and free. In 1990 Ytzhak went to his original hometown and saw that the store was still there, and even being used as a store. All fixed up, taken care of and operational. Upon return the family decided they will pursue reparation claims for the property.

So here we have a deserter and a coward, who legally sold a property now trying to claim that property back as stolen. I don't know how these plans went since I left the US in 1991.

I don't know how isolated or prevalent the above was, is or would be if the 10,000 Israelis made calims for some properties. The point is that history hasn't been kind to this part of Europe and the whole proposition is open to a huge number of abuses and false claims. The only sure winners will be laweyrs.

Additionally, in Poland, since before WW2 there had been some regulations in regards to property ownership, which might make it hard to allow the original owners to claim those properties even under optimal circumastance (i.e. existing paperwork, documents, photographs etc). The regulation stated that a person becomes a legal owner of a property after a given number of years if:

- the person lived there in good faith (ie didn't know the property belonged to someone else)
- the person lived there in bad faith (ie was fully aware the property belonged to someone else)

The length of time required by the above differs but in both cases it is far shorter than the number of years after 1945. Not sure about the numbers now (or even if the regulation is still in force though)

The we have the building maintenance and care. How do you estimate the cost to maintain the building over the period of 60+ years. Modifications, additions, modernization. In some cases, I imagine, that cost could even exceed the value of the property.
celinski 31 | 1,258
4 Dec 2007 #49
Poland was invaded by Germans

No, also by Soviets. "Katyn" and what I shall refer to as "Our Forgotten Polish" as we are yet to be named. With the families I write of they must provide proof that they resided there Jan. 1939. Proof of being deported to Siberia from homes in Kresy are found on red cross lisys that they made in Teharan. Anyone needing the claim forms contact me by e-mail and I will send you the link.

building maintenance and care.

What about rent on the properties or the fact that most were burned to the ground. We also had cows, horses, crops and many other structures. If you want to get into specifics, church's also have value. Carol , USA
Frank 23 | 1,183
4 Dec 2007 #50
I don't think we are dealing with theft here. Not by Poles, and not in all cases anyway. Poland was invaded by Germans, remember? Needless to say, after the war the rightful owners either owned ruins or they were dead.

Moreover, not only many properties were destroyed, but also the documentation proving ownership. The damage was done by Germans, not by Poles.

Yes, I agree.....but regardless of who did the stealing, the people from whom it was taken, illegally..........................have still been stolen from!

A race was nearly wiped from the earth......................everything was taken from them..........why should anyone else gain from that?

Has the world no shame?
z_darius 14 | 3,968
4 Dec 2007 #51
Yes, I agree.....but regardless of who did the stealing, the people from whom it was taken, illegally..........................have still been stolen from!

I still wouldn't call it stealing.

What would you expect people to do in a country where over 65% of building was destroyed? Keep the vacant properties that nobody claimed and care for them just in case there will be a State of Israel and 10,000 of its citizens make claims?

I hear of no protests against those who now live in Polish homes in Ukraine. Those homes and entire properties were not sold to their current owners. Ther were taken by the Soviet government, along with thousands of square miles of good land. About 10 milion Poles were relocated elsewhere. What happened between 1939 and 1945 and beyond was terrible not just for Jews.

Well, time goes, and so Poles and Ukrainians managed to draw a line and move on. Shouldn't Jewish people move on too? Otherwise we'll get back to old attrocities and animosities shine with the new dangerous light?
Frank 23 | 1,183
4 Dec 2007 #52
I still wouldn't call it stealing.

Emmm...not yours........?...you take it.......?..then stealing...........a spade is a spade....

Yes I know that Poland was utterly devastated....its population destroyed like its infrastructure.....people had very few choices.......................but the jewish group were singled out by the Germans...to be annihilated..............the Jewish people have every right to claim back whats theirs.
celinski 31 | 1,258
4 Dec 2007 #53
singled out by the Germans...to be annihilated..............

No, Hitlers plan was for "all Poles". They started with Jewish. Carol

The Plan, drawing on the material collected in the preliminary stages, concluded that 31 million people would have been deported in the course of 25 years. However, in his 1942 memorandum, Dr. Wetzel revised this figure (taking into account certain territorial changes, natural increases, etc.) and arrived at a total of 51 million.

dac.neu.edu/holocaust/Hitlers_Plans.htm#ILLUSTRATIONS
JuliePotocka 5 | 188
4 Dec 2007 #54
So - I am then, to receive back the 300 cities and villages that my Great Grandfather Szczesny Potocki owned, lol?

That would be a stretch. I have made a few attempts to regain properties, but people wanted money off of me, and smelled of a scam, over the last 12 years. I did write to the President of Poland - BUT of course, he lives in one of my family's castles, so why would I expect him to be honest with me??

My family was driven out during the wars, and many died, shot even on the steps of their homes. Because my greatgrandfather stayed a Polish citizen, I am entitled to a dual citizenship; but, would I have to pay dual taxes? Things that make you go hmm.

- Julie Potocka
irishdeano 5 | 304
4 Dec 2007 #55
if they get the land back.........im looking to claim land back in northern ireland that the english took of us lol :P :P :p
celinski 31 | 1,258
4 Dec 2007 #56
here are pg. 1 and 2

they won't go through here e-mail me for the forms.
wildrover 98 | 4,451
4 Dec 2007 #57
I am still half expecting some old German with a long beard to show up claiming my farm is really his......I live in West Poland.....
celinski 31 | 1,258
5 Dec 2007 #58
expecting some old German with a long beard to show up claiming my farm

Truthfully, they have spoken of financial settlement with goverment.

Yet this is the same for my family, I believe it was 10% of todays value. Who knows, maybe even a plaque with past ownership for my bloodline would satisfy our families. Its the way we are not even considered or thought of. Why don't they teach the children about the Kresy families that were there on Feb. 9, 1940 and then on the 10th? "Our Forgotten Polish" is an understatement.

I have asked the Pres. of Poland to do on something Feb. 10th. I don't care how simple, just something to show Poland and the world our families are missed.

Carol
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544
5 Dec 2007 #59
I am still half expecting some old German with a long beard to show up claiming my farm is really his......I live in West Poland.....

Actually there are a lot of people in western Poland that find it no laughing matter. There is a group of Germans that want their property. :/
celinski 31 | 1,258
5 Dec 2007 #60
There is a group of Germans that want their property. :/

Property or compensation? Due to new families living there I believe talks are about monitary settlements. I also feel this should not come from Poland but the USA, Russia, England, Ukraine and France. This could cover all claims.

Carol

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