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Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet?


Rich Mazur 5 | 3,343
9 Jan 2019  #1,231
What happens if Italy and France decide that they no longer want to support Poland financially,

Holy crap! And I naively thought that the EU is there to create equal opportunities for the member states and their citizens. Now I know better: EU was created to screw the Italians and the French taxpayers and ship their dough to the deadbeats like Poland which would just fold and go out of business if the WE welfare checks stopped coming.

Thanks for the explanation.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,015
9 Jan 2019  #1,232
I'm pro-Polish first and foremost.

You are anti-German first and foremost!

Polish best interests are not on your list....
johnny reb 16 | 3,478
9 Jan 2019  #1,233
if the WE welfare checks stopped coming.Thanks for the explanation.

Yes thank you.
I was confused thinking of how hard the older generation of Poles worked for what they have.
The younger Poles living at home get free college, free health care, free room and bored until what 28 years old, yet they can not afford to buy themselves a car.

Someone help me out here.
Dougpol1 27 | 2,685
9 Jan 2019  #1,234
A lot of retirement homes in Silesia have started advertisement in Germany.

You're having a laugh, right? I haven't been in a retirement home, but I've been in long stay Katowice hospitals no less than three times for pneumonia (the wonderful coal industry sponsored pollution...), and only the nuns in one particular hospital were pleasant and sympathetic to a degree. The rest of the nurses were like the one in "One flew over the cuckoos nest."

Wild horses wouldn't get me in a Polish retirement home, at the mercy of them potential sadists.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,823
9 Jan 2019  #1,235
Ah, but these ones are German owned and operated. They're just Polish in the sense of being physically located here, but they actually cater for Germans and are staffed by low-cost workers who speak a bit of German.
Miloslaw 6 | 1,817
9 Jan 2019  #1,236
I have discussed "The German Problem" with both BB and Tacitus before.
But in typical German arrogance,neither see a problem.
This is a European problem.....one that has to be shared and not ignored.
Europeans,in general,do not hate Germans,but distrust them and their motives,
Unless it is addressed,it wil lead to the break up of The EU.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,823
9 Jan 2019  #1,237
What's with this obsession with Germany being the problem? Many European countries don't see it that way - the Czechs and Slovaks already made it clear that they don't have any issues, the UK never had any issue with Germany, the Nordics and Baltics don't have any issue with Germany, the Croats and Slovenes don't have any issue with Germany, the Iberians don't have any issue with Germany... why is it that it only happens to be the populists in Poland, Hungary and Italy that keep screaming and shouting about it?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,015
9 Jan 2019  #1,238
...and still...even as they try their worst , the surveys proof that a large majority in these countries likes Germany and "views it favourable". Their screaming and shouting isn't working.

I guess it's really only a few people falling for that...some of them here on PF....:)
OP Spike31 2 | 904
9 Jan 2019  #1,239
When when when. (...) Get on the plane, start business.(...)

We're not family nor business partners to discuss those matters.

You are anti-German first and foremost!

I simply perceive Germany as the biggest political threat to Poland in Europe.
Not only because Germany would like to dominate in Central Europe but also because you're, as a society, infected with a set of anti-values [multi-kulti, neo-marxism] which you are very eager to export to Poland.

In my opinion Poland should minimize all the political impact of its Western neighbour in order to flourish. Economic exchange is not a problem.

So nothing personal. I even think that you, an Ossi from DDR, are a better kind of Germans. We share one common, half-century long, experience which hardened our societies.

And I naively thought that the EU is there to create equal opportunities for the member states and their citizens

Sure it is. A heaven on earth.

A secular heaven that is.

Or simply stating: an Orwellian 'heaven' with Marx's frosting on top :-)

Trier, Germany. Anno Domini 2018


Lyzko 20 | 6,340
9 Jan 2019  #1,240
The UK never had any issue with Germany, as the House of Battenberg, oops, 'scuse me, Mountbatten LOL, is entirely made up of Germans:-)

Ck out on YouTube an old Masterpiece Theatre "Upstairs, Downstairs" episode, in which Hudson the Bellamy's Glaswegian butler has the last word what with all the fuss 'n feathers over Queen Victoria and entourage coming for tea, "That's all well and good, Mrs. Bridges, but as a Scot, I'd much rather see a Stuart back on the throne!"
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,015
9 Jan 2019  #1,241
Unless it is addressed,it wil lead to the break up of The EU.

I'm not so sure....one of these surveys I posted (Mafketis did actually), showed that Germany was more liked and trusted than the EU.

Interesting! I think they would rather follow Germany even as they don't like Brussels....and as long Germany stays in they will too...
Miloslaw 6 | 1,817
9 Jan 2019  #1,242
What's with this obsession with Germany being the problem? M

There is no obsession,just facts and perceptions.

But if you continue to be ignorant of how people percieve things then you will unleash problems in the future.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,015
9 Jan 2019  #1,243
In my opinion Poland should minimize all the political impact of its Western neighbour in order to flourish. Economic exchange is not a problem.

People move, they travel, they make contacts, they resettle, they intermarry, societies in Europe mingle, of course they impact each other.....especially with close neighbours.....how should that "minimizing" actually work in reality? A wall?
Lyzko 20 | 6,340
9 Jan 2019  #1,244
They move,.....but they don't necessarily move ON!
:-)
Miloslaw 6 | 1,817
9 Jan 2019  #1,245
@Bratwurst Boy
Germany is more trusted than The EU is probably true.
But not by much,because many of us see Germany as in control of The EU.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,015
9 Jan 2019  #1,246
Sure it is. A heaven on earth.

Most Poles seem to think so...a survey (gotta love them) from 2018:

Support for EU membership reaches record high in Poland despite showdown with Brussels

independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/poland-eu-membership-support-for-membership-courts-rule-of-law-mateusz-morawiecki-juncker-a8149876.html

A new survey by pollsters CBOS shows 92 per cent of the Polish population wants to remain in the EU, up three per cent on the last poll ....

Whupping! :)

I can't help it but come to the conclusion that the Spikes, Mafketis and Miloslaws of this forum are far removed from the true realities on the continent...
Miloslaw 6 | 1,817
9 Jan 2019  #1,247
Yeah,just keep those golden blinkers on........
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,015
9 Jan 2019  #1,248
I will watch the coming surveys....promised! :)

Spike definitely has his work cut out for him to build this anti-german alliance and to disengage the polish people from the EU and Germany.
Lyzko 20 | 6,340
9 Jan 2019  #1,249
Easier said than done!
delphiandomine 85 | 17,823
9 Jan 2019  #1,251
Spike definitely has his work cut out for him to build this anti-german alliance and to disengage the polish people from the EU and Germany.

Indeed, but he lives in the fantasy realm of the Polish nationalist, who believes that they somehow are going to magically go from 2% to 40% of the vote.

Even PiS panicked and started to back off when the opposition portrayed them as being keen on Polexit, as the surveys consistently show around 80% support for the EU.
Miloslaw 6 | 1,817
9 Jan 2019  #1,252
It will be tougher for Poland to leave The EU than The UK,but how long will The EU survive without The UK?
OP Spike31 2 | 904
9 Jan 2019  #1,253
how should that "minimizing" actually work in reality? A wall?

There are more subtle and more effective ways to do so :-)

I would start with repolonization of German-owned media in Poland by writing a legislation similar to that which was passed in Germany.

And then all the political NGO's active in Poland should be named as foreign agent d'influence so there would be no doubt who is paying them for press releases, articles and public polls and which point of view they represent.

Those two simple steps would improve situation dramatically. I believe that the government has already written a project for repolonization of media and waiting for after-elections.

And then we can have a pint with bratwurst
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,015
9 Jan 2019  #1,254
,but how long will The EU survive without The UK?

A look back into the history might help....the EU was founded without the UK!
OP Spike31 2 | 904
9 Jan 2019  #1,255
It will be tougher for Poland to leave The EU than The UK

That's why we should disassemble it by supporting eurosceptics within the EU and by encouraging FREXIT.

EU can exist without Britain, maybe even without Italy but NOT without France. And I think that the collapse of the EU is better for Poland than regular POLEXIT for two reasons:

1: no messy post-exit negotiations. Those negotiations are basically an unequal fight of one member against the rest of the EU. And the eurocrats wants to teach them a lesson like we can observe in case of Brexit

2: It's better to make a separate political deals and connections with each individual country in the post-EU Europe that dealing with the whole EU federation run by eurocrats, and lead by Germany, which would be hostile to a sovereign state of Poland.

A federation, which on top of that, may even want to arm itself independently from NATO

It's simply better to destroy it from within than to leave it to bite us in the future.
Miloslaw 6 | 1,817
9 Jan 2019  #1,256
BB,this is where your confusion rests.......no it wasn't.....that was the EEC,not The EU.
Totally different and a difference The British understand but maybe The Germans don't.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,015
9 Jan 2019  #1,257
Those two simple steps would improve situation dramatically.

How would a "repolonization" of some polish news outlets change anything?

1: no messy post-exit negotiations.

Oh god Spike...after the end of the EU Poland still would have to renegotiate EVERYTHING with EVERYBODY totally new. But this time without being part of the biggest and most wealthy consumer market on Earth but only by it's own small self. It will get messy of course!

How you believe the outcome of these negotiations would be in any way better for Poland is again beyond me.

A federation, which on top of that, may even want to arm itself independently from NATO

You sure you want to depend your defense on someone like Trump?

Why not invest in an european defense force?
Miloslaw 6 | 1,817
9 Jan 2019  #1,258
Spike31 said "That's why we should encourage FREXIT by supporting eurosceptics within the EU, especially in France".
Agreed.
This is a failed experiment,with good intentions at the outset but has been hijacked by politicians and is not what any of us ever wanted.

Time for The EU and German domination to die.....again.....
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,015
9 Jan 2019  #1,259
I really wish you would butter up your wishful thinking with some ideas or stats....
Miloslaw 6 | 1,817
9 Jan 2019  #1,260
Lies,damn lies and stats?
Why do Germans love their stats so much?


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