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Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet?


delphiandomine 87 | 16,884    
9 Nov 2018  #511
You are using the word nationalist to describe right wing nazis

FFS Dolno, that's the word they use to describe themselves!

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narodowy_radykalizm

Someone who supports this is a nationalist.

Polish doesn't work like English, a nationalist in English is not necessarily a bad thing (Scottish, Catalan, Basque, Flemish, etc.). In Polish, referring to Polish nationalists, it refers specifically to the far right. Normal people don't call themselves nationalists in Poland.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,182    
9 Nov 2018  #512
nationalist in English is not necessarily a bad thing

This is an English forum so it's your fault for not referring to those parties as radical ultra right wing.

If you refer to those nutters as such you will find that I am in complete agreement.
Atch 16 | 2,639    
9 Nov 2018  #513
Yes, all you have to do is think of the BNP. The term Nationalism in the modern context is not the same thing as being patriotic in the old fashioned sense.

@Dolno, the "I'm proud of my country" stuff is fine up to a point. But I'm not sure what there is to be proud of at the moment with Poland. The nation is in turmoil in many ways and there is no clear vision and well planned goal setting or long term plan for Poland's political and economic future. There is no sense of any clear direction for the nation and very poor leadership, a weak opposition party who don't provide any compelling alternatives etc. Not a good time in Poland's history. The country is at real risk of sliding backwards and losing much of the gains it's made over the last twenty years or so. The best thing you can do for your country is to recognize that and take steps to address it in whatever way you can.
mafketis 16 | 6,286    
9 Nov 2018  #514
the fact is you were not nurtured within a Polish family from a young age and probably did not go through the catholic path

That is absolutely true, I'm a (sort of proud) American and was raised areligiously.
That is absolutely irrelevant to the fact that I'm right; A large majority of Polish people (those living in Poland) don't like the march in Warsaw in the form it's had the last couple of years where most of the publicity is taken by thuggish skinheads carrying banners that say things like "Death to the Enemies of the Homeland".

I have no super strong opinions on the parade (which is a mixed bag with lots of less threatening groups too) all I'm claiming is that a majority of Polish people don't like it and that's backed up by recent reliable polling. While claims that a majority of Poles support the march in its current incarnation is supported by..... what exactly?
dolnoslask 5 | 2,182    
9 Nov 2018  #515
The best thing you can do for your country is to recognize that and take steps to address it in whatever way you can.

The country is doing just fine if you consider where it was in 1989, we will be just fine as long as we are free (Don't fret).

But you cannot smear all the people attending the march as BNP of national front supporters, many are their to voice concerns about foreign political policies being forced upon Poland that are not compatible with the country and it's traditions, there are people there who also voice their concerns about the political state of Poland.

But on the whole all are there to celebrate Poland freedom from foreign slavery and oppression.

I think that there are many European countries sliding back much faster than Poland, look at Britain sliding into murder and anarchy and alienating itself from the rest of Europe with Brexit.

Both major political parties in Poland make it clear that Poland stands with Europe and the European union.

Yes there is the odd spat like the migrant crisis, but Poland was right to stand it's ground as this is now an agreed failed policy that has caused much damage, especially to a good leader and friend of Poland Angela who's only fault was to try and force that failed policy upon Poland, sadly she has now had to fall on her sword to ensure political stability in Germany.
Ironside 47 | 9,250    
9 Nov 2018  #516
What are you talking about?

hmm... see you don't dare to name names and repeat your slander. As for the rest of your commie rant, jump the lake, there enough of the red scum in Poland.

You are clutchin

Don't bother dolno. Delphin is either progressive or just a manure throwing monkey or both. No point to talk to him. Same goes with commie thug Dough, he is such low IQ its a miracle then he can walk and talk at the same time.

This crowd here seem to be unable or unwilling to grasp few simple issues. what important they are so suck up with their own egos and preconception they are not even really listening aside progressives. Progressive preachers are really something else

- a preaching semi-religious fanatics. Only bulled can cure it.

There is nothing wrong with those marches. If someone say there is they are either progressives which is beyond pale, ignorant or simply stupid bigots.
mafketis 16 | 6,286    
9 Nov 2018  #517
There is nothing wrong with those marches.

Which enemies of the homeland do you wish death upon? How do you want to kill them?

g5.gazetaprawna.pl/p/_wspolne/pliki/3154000/3154887-marsz-niepodleglosci.jpg
Ironside 47 | 9,250    
9 Nov 2018  #518
ou are clutching at straws

Yes, he does. He confuses values and ideas with the way a state act out on the world stage. On purpose I might add.

In Polish, referring to Polish nationalists,

Look here. you made a fool out of yourself, again. Unless you are lying, again.

If someone refers to himself in Polish as a nationalist, then yes you're right, few people do. The catch here is there is a word in Polish, that is often trnsalted as a nationalist but it isn't - narodowiec is something different and specifically Polish. Chew on that Mr. expert lol.

ou are clutching at straws

Yes, he does. He confuses values and ideas with the way a state act out on the world stage. On purpose I might add.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,182    
9 Nov 2018  #519
where most of the publicity is taken by thuggish skinheads carrying banners that say things like "Death to the Enemies of the Homeland".

Yes random idiots.

in its current incarnation is supported by..... what exactly?

It's been evolving / revolving over the last ten years or so , I believe in time this March will become to be to be everything that is good about Poland and the marginal lunatics will be thrown off this very public platform, by the sane majority who want to celebrate peacefully.
Ironside 47 | 9,250    
9 Nov 2018  #520
Which enemies of the homeland do you wish death upon?

All of them?

How do you want to kill them?

Morally and politically.
Dougpol1 26 | 2,146    
9 Nov 2018  #521
commie thug Dough, he is such low IQ

Not a commie. I don't want government interfering in my life. PIS voters are the commies. They want it served up on a plate for them. I work, and pay my taxes. Glad to clear that up for you.

As for IQ, mine are average? Yours? And while you're domiciled in Norway, earning a Norwegian salary, the rest of us are keeping the home fires burning and fighting the good fight.

That's wasted on you - because you could care less about your country.

If someone say there is they are either progressives which is beyond pale, ignorant or simply stupid bigots.

So, 78 percent of Poles, who hate these marches, are the above, according to you? Shocking assertion. What an insult to Poles everywhere ( the 78 percent) YBut oif course, you wouldn't really know the truth of the matter, seeing as you are a plastic Pole after all.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,182    
9 Nov 2018  #522
narodowiec is something different

nacjonalista and narodowiec, both translate in google to nationalist, but are very different in meaning. bad to use google
Atch 16 | 2,639    
9 Nov 2018  #523
The country is doing just fine if you consider where it was in 1989

Really? Dolno, Polish people will be afraid to go into the city centre on Sunday because of the uncertainty over what will happen regarding the thug element. The army will be doing the security, so would you want to have a day out with the family with the prospect of tens of thousands of disgruntled skinheads confronting the military on the streets? It's a tragedy on what should be a beautiful, dignified occasion to celebrate 100 years of Polish independence. It should be a lovely day with some formal events in the city's historic quarters such as the Stare Miasto, and music, etc, open/free day at the musuems and places that usually charge entry fees, all that lark. The fact that the whole thing is an ugly mess reflects the state of the country and how it's being run at the moment.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,327    
9 Nov 2018  #524
The march makes now even the international headlines:

Fears of violence as Polish state intervenes in nationalist march

Row over annual far-right rally overshadows preparations for independence centenary

theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/09/fears-of-violence-as-polish-state-intervenes-in-nationalist-march

Last year's event, which attracted an estimated 60,000 people, received widespread international condemnation for the presence of racist and xenophobic banners and slogans and instances of violence directed at counter-protesters......

True or not but such reporting is not good for Polands international image...
mafketis 16 | 6,286    
9 Nov 2018  #525
As I keep being reminded here, "real" Poles don't care about the country's international image.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,182    
9 Nov 2018  #526
Really?

Yes really (smiley face), the government has asked for a peaceful march under the red and white flag, and for the march to show unity between political parties.

OK if this needs to come to a head later at night and the Nazi or Commie supporting nutters want to fight the Polish army, then let them fight, I hope the army has orders to give no mercy to anarchists, a few hundred smashed skulls might focus thugs decisions to attend next years event.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,100    
9 Nov 2018  #527
The army will be doing the security

According to well-informed sources, the army will seal off the access to the Dmowski round-about where the march is to start. Sources say the authorities exclude any possibility for the nationalists' march to set off from there one hour before the official march begins (as planned by the nationalists). Not without reason the body which organizes the official march is the Ministry of Defense. People who want to participate in the Independence March (the original one organised by the nationalists) have no other choice but to join the official march with President Andrzej Duda and Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki - says the source quoted by wirtualna polska.

wiadomosci.wp.pl/wojsko-nie-dopusci-do-marszu-narodowcow-przyjada-rosomaki-nikt-nie-bedzie-mial-prawa-sie-zblizyc-6315037960046209a
OP Spike31 1 | 378    
9 Nov 2018  #528
Not because they were too moral or saintly Dolno. History just didn't work out that way for them

So let's focus on facts and not on a subjective outlook of "acts that never happened", Atch. Cause if we follow this line of thinking then we can justify or criticize virtually anything and anyone regardless of their past deeds, crimes or affiliations.

Jozef Mackiewicz has once famously said: "Only the truth is interesting"
Atch 16 | 2,639    
9 Nov 2018  #529
You're confusing 'truth' with events. Truth encompasses much more than simple facts or events. However, let's not get into philosophy. I need a strong cup of tea and a delicious pastry of some kind to sustain me before I can embark on such a discussion!
OP Spike31 1 | 378    
9 Nov 2018  #530
True or not but such reporting is not good for Polands international image...

You should rather focus on real problems like those German neo-nazis celebrating a birthday of German nazi Rudolf Hess (a deputy of Adolf Hitler) just last summer [Aug 2017] in Berlin:

independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/neo-nazis-berlin-ruidolf-hess-a7901771.html



instead of being so "concerned" with Polish Independence March.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,327    
9 Nov 2018  #531
You should rather focus on real problems like those German neo-nazis celebrating a birthday of German nazi Rudolf Hess

....surely only some misguided patriots....some nationalists gone abit over the top....nothing serious...

instead of being so "concerned" with Polish Independence March.

Yeah...well...I apologize...they closed the "german" thread....so I need to invade other threads...I'm a German, if I'm not invading something I'm not happy....
delphiandomine 87 | 16,884    
9 Nov 2018  #532
So let's focus on facts

Let's focus on them indeed. Only 2% of Poles expressed any interest in attending such a march, which fits neatly in line with the fringe nature of this.

Let's also focus on the fact that far from being a "grassroots march", it's actually going to be led by the government.

Let's also focus on the fact that for some strange reason, the support on this forum comes not from Poland, but from people outside it.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,182    
9 Nov 2018  #533
but to join the official march with President Andrzej Duda and Prime Minister Mateusz

Exactly they should march for Poland and the values behind this celebration , nutters should be marginalised.
OP Spike31 1 | 378    
9 Nov 2018  #534
I need a strong cup of tea and a delicious pastry of some kind to sustain me before I can embark on such a discussion

Atch, let's say that I don't believe that you're about to drink a coffee. Does that change the fact that a warm liquid may be filling up your belly right now? :-)
Crow 146 | 7,594    
9 Nov 2018  #535
Tell me what happened? Did Serbs finally initiated turmoils in Poland? If somebody can awake Poles, that`s Serbs.
Dougpol1 26 | 2,146    
9 Nov 2018  #536
So let's focus on facts

"The US Embassy in Warsaw has issued a security alert advising citizens to avoid the march route". (The Guardian)
So what we have Spike, is a situation - as those of us on the ground here have been saying, that we have a mob march which has been allowed to grow for the last 10 years, which has been hijacked by low life scum, and you defend it?

Do tell us what would happen if you marched with racist banners and flares in Blackpool or Middlesborough? But strangely, you support yobs doing so here? I take issue with Dolno that it is the odd loser behaving in this way....more like in the thousands, and these crims deserve prison time for inciting racial hatred.

If Poland was the laughing stock of Europe 10 years ago for jailing village alcoholics for riding their cycles while drunk (illegally imprisoning them IMO), then they bloody well should have no problems in giving these "hard" men a taste of their own medicine.
OP Spike31 1 | 378    
9 Nov 2018  #537
I will answer your question but first I'll make a few corrections. Instead of:

that we have a mob march which has been allowed to grow for the last 10 years, which has been hijacked by low life scum, and you defend it?

Should be:

a grassroots patriotic political movement which has been allowed to grow for the last 10 years, which has been leaded by National Movement, and you defend it?

I not only defend them but I also support them.

Do tell us what would happen if you marched with racist banners and flares in Blackpool or Middlesborough? But strangely, you support yobs doing so here?

I don't get involved with British politics.
Since I'm only a guest here in the UK I don't want to interfere with local politics. I don't feel that I have right to do so and I also don't want to look like an complete fool who doesn't understand a complicated socio-political situation in the country.
Rich Mazur 5 | 2,237    
9 Nov 2018  #538
if you marched with racist banners

Can somebody, finally, tell me what the hell is a racist banner? What does it say to make "racist"?
Miloslaw 8 | 874    
9 Nov 2018  #539
We will never win the argument with these ex pats in Poland.
They think they know it all.....but they don't understand the subtleties.....Poles are
not like The Brits,The French or The Germans.....what you see in Poland cannot be translated into British,French or German mentality....
Maybe The Yanks understand.....Poles are different.
mafketis 16 | 6,286    
9 Nov 2018  #540
We will never win the argument with these

pesky Pollish people who live in Poland? Do you have any evidence that the march in the form it's had in the last few years enjoys broad support among the Polish public? The only real data point I could find shows quite the opposite (which jibes with my experiences talking with Polish people in Poland).

Maybe The Yanks understand...

As an American from the South, I find the term "Yanks" to be very offensive (as it only refers to northerners).



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