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GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)! OUTRAGE!


z_darius 14 | 3,965
21 Nov 2008 #421
Another one....Great Britain fighted on the side of the Poles...did this make the English, the Welsh or the Scots polish???

Not to be picky, but the example still ain't very fortunate :)
I think you need to abandon that argument until you make it bullet proof.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,742
21 Nov 2008 #422
You know we have many astronomers (google this names):

Well...nobody knows them...you can keep them! :)

I'm still waiting for some facts which would support your idea...but you have NOTHING!

Not to be picky, but the example still ain't very fortunate :)
I think you need to abandon that argument until you make it bullet proof.

Well..that's what I try to tell Luki..shared interest and Kopernikus fighting under an ex-Ordensman with the prussian federation against the Teutonic Order doesn't make him polish!

No political leanings can make or change an ethnical heritage!

Tell me why so many (in your terms) Germans prefere to be Poles than the Germans ?

Who would that be?
Last time I looked Podolski preferred the german Mannschaft! :):):)
Prince 15 | 590
21 Nov 2008 #423
I'm still waiting for some facts which would support your idea...but you have NOTHING!

You have nothing :) You have names which don't exist in reality :)
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,742
21 Nov 2008 #424
Laubor Poles were choosing German side and upper German class prefered Poland ... nothing new :)

He...you mean the lower classes work their asses off to make Germany big and strong and the polish nobles are in truth Germans!????

LOL.....sure, why not...I can live with that! :):):)

Or as southern would say: "Scratch a Pole and you will find a German!" :)

Thank you Luki!
Prince 15 | 590
21 Nov 2008 #425
I've edited my post before yours. I haven't been talking about noblity (I don't find Serbs noble) but when we look on people Germanised or Polonised we can see that so many times famous people in Germany wanted to be Poles ... you can' find such thing in Poland there were rich Polish aristocrats in Germany but they didn't want to be German.

You have Podolski! :)

Kopernik is much different issue.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,742
21 Nov 2008 #426
so many times famous people in Germany wanted to be Poles

Yeah sure....Luki....whatever you say! :):):)
Prince 15 | 590
21 Nov 2008 #427
You know what Germanisation is about puting down, killing etc.

Polonisation is about honor, friends, family etc. :) That is why it is so much different and aims different types of people. :) It would be very hard to Polonise simple German lauborer.

Long live Poland :)
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,742
21 Nov 2008 #428
Yeah sure Luki...whatever you say! *rolls eyes, suppresses grin* :)
Prince 15 | 590
21 Nov 2008 #429
At the end : What is color of your eyes ? Do you have children ?
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544
22 Nov 2008 #430
Only 60 years later??? He should know about it, don't you think? It's nearly the same time frame!

The author of the words which just few pages ago claimed to be the words of Copernicus, namely:

Nicolai Copernick Canonici Varmiensis in Borussia Germaniae mathematici ... ("of Canon Nicolaus Copernick from Warmia in Prussia of Germany, of the mathematician ...")

not only didn't knew him personally, but he didn't even knew the guy to whom the manuscript was passed to. Further more, he even didn't knew the guy who got the manuscript from that guy who got the manuscript in the first place. Actually, he even didn't get the chance to meet the guy, who got the manuscript from a guy, who got the manuscript from a guy, who got te manuscript from Copernicus. BBoy, are you being serious here?

And are you going to appologize to the good people of this forum for your lie or are you going to change the subject as usual?
Prince 15 | 590
22 Nov 2008 #431
Lets make summary:

Kopernik was writing that he is from Toruń Bratwurst lie with his quotations he can't prove them.

His father was from Kraków he had typical Polish name which means dill.

Language:

In Poland we were using Latin language in writing. In Kopernik's times Polish language wasn't used in documants. He was normal Pole. He was studing in Kraków.

Only Polish versions of his name exist in reality.

moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/kopernik.html

What is important in places connected with his family history (his father was form Kraków).
He was using Latin version (in documents). When we look on fact that in modern times people use Polish version of this name ... and they live mostly in Poland... in places strongly connected with his history and Kopernik was soldier in Polish army.

Names given by Germans don't exist in reality only when they try to prove that Kopernik was their. He never used German name.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,742
22 Nov 2008 #432
And are you going to appologize to the good people of this forum for your lie or are you going to change the subject as usual?

My source was this:

economicexpert.com/a/Copernicus:nationality.htm

Take it to them if you want one accusing of lying. And if I were prone to change a subject this thread wouldn't now contain 15 pages.

Sorry Maty...it isn't my fault if the two most famous Poles weren't real Poles (Chopin-french, Kopernikus-german)!
That you hang onto them desperately because there is not much else to show off to the world community (to the contrary to your neighbours) is understandable - ignoring facts is not!

PS: But you make good popes! (And he was a full Pole or so I've heard - you can keep him!) :)
Wroclaw Boy
22 Nov 2008 #433
Sorry Maty...

Theres a bit of English in every German.
Shawn_H
22 Nov 2008 #434
two most famous Poles weren't real Poles

BB - Even your source doesn't come out and claim him as Pure German as well....

One can say summarizing, that Copernicus' working language was Latin, his mother tongue was German, his sovereign was Polish and his father tongue was probably Polish. He is undisputedly a Central-European.

Working Language - Latin - that of the scientific types of the time - no real winning side
Mother Tongue - German
Soveriegn - Polish
(tied at this point...)
Father Tongue - probably Polish - Undetermined.

It ends as a tie!
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,742
22 Nov 2008 #435
Another good article:

www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Copernicus.html

...As a native German speaker he joined the "German Nation of Bologna University". Each student contributed to the "German Nation" an amount they could afford and the small contribution that Copernicus made indicates his poor financial position at that time.

What a "Pole"...:):):)

BB - Even your source doesn't come out and claim him as Pure German as well....

No they don't....it's actually a good and as I find fair source and a reason why I still think we could share him.

But if some Poles are still determined to make him a full blooded polish freedom fighter hating Germans then I claim him for Germany (and fact is most indicates that I would win at the court)
Prince 15 | 590
22 Nov 2008 #436
Copernicus' nationality
knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Copernicus'_nationality

Another fact is that "natio" was student corporation, not declaration of nationality. In most universities there were Italian, German etc "natio"s and most of Polish students was joining German "natio".

There is supposed evidence to suggest that Copernicus was Polish by allegiance (in terms of the politics of the time): in 1512, when he was Canon of the Chapter of Frombork, Copernicus swore allegiance to King Sigismund I of Poland (who, before becoming king of Poland, had already become and remained governor of Silesia. While allocating a plot of land to a peasant April 23rd 1517 he wrote this line: "actum dias St Adalberti, Pater Patroni et Apostoli" (given on the day of St Adalbert, patron of the Motherland and apostole). St Adalbert (Wojciech) is a patron of Poland.

Copernicus' father was a treasurer of Zwiazek Jaszczurczy (Lizard Organisation) an organisation involved in protecting Polish interests against these of Teutonic Order. Among other things they co-financed the 1466 war between Poland and the Order

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lizard_Union_(medieval)

The Lizard Union or Lizard League (German: Eidechsenbund; Polish: Związek Jaszczurczy) was an organization of Prussian nobles and knights established in Culmerland (Chełmno Land) in 1397. Its declared goal was to combat lawlessness, although it discreetly sought the transfer of Culmerland from the Teutonic Knights to Poland

Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,742
22 Nov 2008 #437
There is supposed evidence to suggest

ROFL :):):)

Copernicus' father was a treasurer of Zwiazek Jaszczurczy (Lizard Organisation) an organisation involved in protecting Polish interests against these of Teutonic Order. Among other things they co-financed the 1466 war between Poland and the Order

Well...why do you leave out the important fact:

Lizard Union (medieval), an organization of Prussian nobles and knightsopposed to the Teutonic Knights

Now you have it! Nickis father wasn't not only not a Pole but a Prussian knight and his mama was from a wealthy German merchants family!

Bingo!!!
(Thank you Luki)

PS: Luki, you really should read more about these conflict Copernicus and others were involved in (also the Lizard union). It has nothing to do with a Polish freedom fight:

The war started as an uprising by Prussian cities and the local nobility with the goal of gaining independence from the Teutonic Knights. The Prussian Confederation asked the Polish king for help and offered to incorporate Prussia into the Kingdom of Poland. When the king agreed, war between Poland supporting one faction of the Prussians against the Prussians in support of government by the Teutonic Knights broke out. It ended with the Second Peace of Thorn (1466) in favor of the confederacy and Poland, and was followed by the War of the Priests, about independence of the Prussian priests against Poland from 1467-1479.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteen_Years%27_War_%281454%E2%80%9366%29

It was an inter-Prussian civil war, not a Polish-germane war!
Prince 15 | 590
22 Nov 2008 #438
Now you have it! Nickis father wasn't not only not a Pole but a prussian knight and his mama was from a wealthy german merchants family!

His father moved form Kraków (he was not Prussian) and helped Polish king to organise Lizard Union.
Prince 15 | 590
22 Nov 2008 #440
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lizard_Union_(medieval)

Battle of Grunwald

In Germany the battle was known as the Battle of Tannenberg. In 1914 yet another Battle of Tannenberg took place between Germany and Russia, ending with a Russian defeat. In German propaganda during the World War I / World War II period the 1914 battle was put forth as a revenge for the Polish - Lithuanian victory 504 years earlier, and the battle itself was purposefully named to suit this agenda.

If Kopernik was German give me more such Germans :)))
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,742
22 Nov 2008 #441
If it makes you feel better...

But sorry, it still doesn't make them polish! :):):)

If Kopernik was German give me more such Germans :)))

Yes, I know you need foreign input to get things done...:)
Prince 15 | 590
22 Nov 2008 #442
We don't want her :) heheh

merkel
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,742
22 Nov 2008 #443
Well...I see it as the end of the argument? :)

*bows out*
HatefulBunch397 - | 658
22 Nov 2008 #444
You all are still arguing this trite issue????!!!!!?!?!?!?!??????!!!????
Babylon 16 | 192
7 May 2009 #445
Kopernik - Polish or German?

What do you think about that Nicolaus Copernicus was German not Polish? English wikipedia did not show exactly the nationality. I think he was Polish.

Every German has Polish roots. Almost! Even Hitler wasn't German if we consider Austria as not German.
McCoy 27 | 1,269
7 May 2009 #446
Even Hitler wasn't German if we consider Austria as not German.

dont remind them about this or your children gonna learn that austrians started the 2 world war and gerries were only innocent tools in the hands of a mad man
Sokrates 8 | 3,345
7 May 2009 #447
The guy was born in Kraków to a Polish family, he fought Teutons, thats a pretty big indication of his nationality.
McCoy 27 | 1,269
7 May 2009 #448
oh, you're lucky it wasn't the one million zloty question
Mr Grunwald 33 | 2,158
7 May 2009 #449
BB understand this
Most Germans and Germanic countries consider blood as most important and language (Nationalism) as placing national identity

Most Poles place fighting/praising/love for their country (Patriotism) as national identity

So both may have been right but in their own eyes, the other is wrong. Also it is important to remember that he didn't live after the French revolution

So everyone is correct from their point of view unless you think history :)
Davey 13 | 388
7 May 2009 #450
They tell us he's Polish in Canada too...

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