GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)! OUTRAGE!

And since his body has just been found, it should be DNA-testable, not that DNA determines cultural identity anyway.

Chopin was half French, hence the name.

Skłodowska married French guy called Curie...

But given the logic that Copernicus can't be German because the name doesn't exist in Germany, it's impossible that Chopin was Polish because the name doesn't exist in Poland.

I know it's crazy but it's the logic used by certain Poles who claim that Copernicus is 100% Polish!

You can take Serbs (Crow) or Ukrainians ... they are more much more "Germanic" than the Germans (if you folow Y DNA)


I've mised quoted you.


OK harry the problem is that this all names exists somewhere and Koperniks names given by BB don't exist in reality only when they write about Kopernik there is such family Kopperingk. If you want to use pure blood key you will find that only half of Polish population is ancient slavic it is not exactly like some would like it to be.

:):):)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veleti


:) Hitler gave your family certifcate only 150 years back not 1000 years back.

Erm...it's still about Kopernikus, ya know???

PS: Now it's more than 200 years actually.....your proof of 1000 years is what?

Apropos Veleti, from your link:


See...we were there first! :)

How do you know that you belong to this part of German society?


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rola_coat_of_arms

My father has two small items from XI century which are in our family from centuries. I will teach my son history of my clan (back to XI century) as my father have done with me. I have some documents from the past (not from XI century).

You know you can tell me alot and this coat of arms means nothing to me but most importantly what has that to do with Kopernikus???

Apropos about your link:


I wonder what else of your family is from Germany, stems from german stock! :)

" The generic Polish term for a coat of arms, herb, dates from the early 15thcentury, originating as a translation of the Czech erb, which in turn came from the German Erbe - heritage." We had kinghts before 15th century ...:)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cedynia



I have name with -ski and I am not German I am from original branch of this clan.

Going back to Kopernik you choose Polish citizen pick on him and claim him to be German, you change his name and tell us lets share him because ... I don't see the reason to do it. I don't understnd why Poles should do it, some people in Poland have this name (more than in Germany) now somebody tells us to share him. Why? Maybe we should label citizens "25% German, 50% Lithuanian etc." Even they don't know about their 12,5% of lets say Czech blood.

It is stupid and Germans wouldn't like to do so when it comes to them.

Well....that's you Luki! But then....your "reality" differs from us.

You have NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to show that Kopernikus was polish but you chose to ignore that(Watzenrode family, using only german and latin, fighting for the prussian bund, member of the Preußischer Landtage etc)...well...it isn't going to change the truth!

You won't make a "Mikolaj Kopernik" out of a born "Nikolaus Koppernigk" face it!
And as Harry said...you are going even to lose Chopin if you go only by names...that's your logic Luki! No Kopernikus, no Chopin...not much to show off for Poland!

Copernicus was very simply not a Polish citizen. He may well have been a subject of the Crown of the Polish Kingdom but he was not a Polish citizen. End of story.

Why do some Poles think that when they are in a hole the best way to get out is to keep digging until they reach Australia?

His father was from Kraków and imagine yourself that it was Polish city. As to some Prussians and their nationality.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanization

So it seems that the above article about Veleti says that the Wends absorbed the earlier German tribes in the Mecklenburg/Vorpommern area, and then years later, new Germans came in, and absorbed the Wends who were already mixed with some Germanic peoples. I am sure that further east there was a dash or two of ancient Baltic Prus, pagan tribes, who were assimilated with a sprinkle of Danish and Scottish. Ooops. Forgot the Dutch. Well, it seems the mix is still more Saxon than anything.

In all fairness to Prince, however, he has a point. Not so much with Copernicus as with the Mecklenburg/Vorommern area. The Wends broke into lots of groups and at some point, Kashubs were also classified as Wends.

In my genealogical studies, I ran across information written by an ethnic German pre-WWI that the ethnic Germans who moved into the Włocławek area were orignally from Pommern. More recent researchers use the exact same map and call those Germans Pommeranian, but the original researcher said they were Kashubs and because they wished to obscure their partly Slavic background, they favored the term Pommeranian rather than Kashubian. The eastern Kashubs are the same ethnic group but stayed Catholic, and identified with Poland (and still live in Poland). The western Kashubs were expelled because they believed themselves to be German and were Lutheran. But they are identical really. So, it just shows that your idenity is more than genetics, but a matter of culture and who you believe you are.

But, if I am correct, in Copernicus day, the peasants were not aware of identity the way we are today, and the upper classes such as Copernicus and his family viewd the noble classes as who they were. Polish nobles and Prussian nobles, hunted and fished together on their large manors. They had their alligances to each other i.e., Royal Prussia to the Polish King. Yet, it had little to do with what nationalty they were. Just who held the bigger fief above them and who they did fealty to.

So again, it appears Copernicus was Polish in allegiance, but German in culture and of mixed genetics. As in the beginning of the thread. Share him. He belongs to the world not one nationality.

Where do you find polish allegiance? But I agree with the rest....

That was Kopernikus' (and his uncle Lukas Watzenrodes) proven allegiance to as far as I know:

I'll settle with that! Two out of three ain't bad. :-)

By allegiance I meant that since the land where he was born, Royal Prussia was inhabited by a majority of Germans, but had recently come under the rulership of the Polish King he was a loyal citizen.

Yet, as you say...he was very involved with Prussian affairs. Fighting the Teutonic Knights, because of taxation.

That's my Softie...:)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monastic_state_of_the_Teutonic_Knights

Well???

Look at Thorn, fully in german colors!

His father moved form Kraków. He was fighting on this side.
IT wasn't only about taxes. I know one thing he has choosen good side. People with his name live in Poland (Kraków).

Your version about some movemnts in Prussia look stange:



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lizard_Union_(medieval)

In my opinion eastern Germany (if we use the same key as BB) and people with this origin should be something beetwen Poland and Germany and now eastern Germans try to be more German than they are in terms you use to define natonality.

Oh my Prince. Are you saying you wish to have Prussia between Germany and Poland again? LOL

Lets stay where we are. Germans form the east voting on anit-Polish nationalists look strange.

:):):)


Meaning?



What else?
Show me some proof that the prussian confederation was about polish independence or polish freedom or polish whatever...


....or polish at all! :)
(His name was Nikolaus Koppernigk too btw, not "Mikolaj" or another polish aequivalent)

As I've said Kraków was German town :)


You see Bratwurs in Poland we know why some people could stay in Poland and some not. It wasn't protestant/catholic issue. At the end of WWII some people were hiden when Russians were looking for Germans ... because they were Poles. I think that your family was thinking in way you do. That is why you live where you live ... in your beautiful Germany :)

So...when his papa was german, his mama was german, Nikolaus grew up with german and latin, later with his uncle, the german bishop Lukas Watzenrode, when Nikolaus fighted on behalf of the Preußischer Bund and made policy in the Preußische Landtag, studied and wrote in german and latin....what again makes him polish???

hehehe :)

moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/kopernik.html

Polish name :) Koper in Polish means dill. :) He has been fighting on Polish side. that makes him Polish. German versions of this name don't exist in reality.

Whoa....do you want to kill your adversaries through boredom???


His family was Koppernigk (someone who works with Copper), not dill...


Well, in WWII half of the world fighted on the same side as the Poles...Russians for example, does that made them to Poles???

And btw. he wasn't fighting on polish behalf, only that some Poles and some Prussians shared the same disgust with the Teutonic Orders taxation policy - led by an ex-Order man on top!


Firstly you have no proof and secondly this logic would make your other celebrity, Chopin, a french, do you really want that???

Not to weigh on the "Polish or German" issue, but the example doesn't apply. Russians did not fight on the same side as Poles. Russians fought on the same side as themselves. Any benefits for Poles were a side effect. Their war effort had nothing to do with fighting with or for Poles. The shortest road to Berlin simply lead through Poland. Just a short years before, Russians and Germans, were drafting plans to erase Poland from maps and to annihilate the Polish nation.

Okay...maybe a bad example. Another one....Great Britain fighted on the side of the Poles...did this make the English, the Welsh or the Scots polish???

Did they lose their vowels overnight, preferring Kielbasa to Fish 'n Chips, dancing Mazurka and liking Vodka???

Koper



You know we have many astronomers (google this names):

Franciszek Armiński
Albert Brudzewski
Tadeusz Banachiewicz
Władysław Dziewulski
Jan Gadomski
Felicjan Kępiński
Mikołaj Kopernik
Marian Albertovich Kowalski
Kazimierz Kordylewski
Stanisław Lubieniecki
Bohdan Paczyński
Marcin Poczobutt-Odlanicki
Alexius Sylvius Polonus
Adam Prazmowski
Konrad Rudnicki
Jan Śniadecki
Wiesław Wiśniewski
Aleksander Wolszczan

but I don't see the reason to make Kopernik German if he was loyal Polish citizen with father from Kraków you claim him to be German but it is interesting (if you talk about Slavs and ancient Germanic people look where Slavs live in Lusatia and Bayern and check Kopernik name in this regions)

Something for you: Przemówienie ministra Józefa Becka w sejmie 5.05.1939

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Józef_Beck


Tell me why so many (in your terms) Germans prefere to be Poles than the Germans ?