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Dodgy PRL-holdover judiciary finally reformed



OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,886    
16 Jul 2017  #91

dignity

What are you on today (grass, ampha, designers, booze) if you equate howling, shouting, ranting and threats of violence with dignity?!


OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,886    
16 Jul 2017  #92

latest attempt to reintroduce a one party state

Indeed, then he'll withdraw Poland from the EU and set up concentratkion camps. Next come the gas chambers using Trump's LNG spiked with a bit of Zyklon B, Warum nicht? Then.....you wake up with a splitting hangover headache.....
jon357 63 | 12,072    
16 Jul 2017  #93

Indeed, then he'll withdraw Poland from the EU and set up concentratkion camps

Quite possibly, Po, quite possibly.

equate howling, shouting, ranting and threats of violence

You mean the candlelit vigil with a pianist playing Chopin?
Wulkan - | 3,198    
16 Jul 2017  #94

Indeed, then he'll withdraw Poland from the EU and set up concentratkion camps.

Quite possibly, Po, quite possibly.

I bet they brainwash them in GW like that.
jon357 63 | 12,072    
16 Jul 2017  #95

equate howling, shouting, ranting and threats of violence

Hopefully this picture will upload, since I've shrunk the size. Not outside the Royal Castle, however it's so,where we all recognise - very significant given the context.



Atch 9 | 1,684    
17 Jul 2017  #96

It seems that PIS is trying to create the Poland that might have been, had World War Two and Soviet domination not intervened and they think these kind of 'reforms' are the best way to go about it. That's the particular vision of Kaczyński, it's a type of obsession, completely detached from reality.

Sadly Poland and ordinary Polish people will pay the price for this madness. For one thing, Poland will definitely become a less attractive place for investors. I can't imagine anybody from a civilised country wanting to set up a major business in a land which is gradually turning into a police state and which is looking backwards a hundred years to the early twentieth century. I firmly believe that the ultimate goal of PIS is to take Poland out of the EU and they are deluded enough to believe that Poland is strong enough to go it alone and even achieve what they perceive as its rightful position as the leader of the former Eastern Bloc.

It's also very sinister in that this is the beginning of a process which starts with state mechanisms and gradually reaches out into the everyday lives of ordinary people so that they are eventually brought under complete control and personal freedoms are eroded. There's still a long way to go but if the flow is not checked Poland is heading down a very dangerous path.
Wulkan - | 3,198    
17 Jul 2017  #97

take Poland out of the EU

EU should be destroyed anyway
Atch 9 | 1,684    
17 Jul 2017  #98

That's another issue. I don't think 'destruction' is a very helpful suggestion, a touch of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, reformed certainly. But ironically it's partly as a result of admitting the former Eastern Bloc countries that the EU has gone into decline. The whole thing became too big, unwieldy and unmanageable especially when you have a group of countries who are so far removed from the princples on which modern Europe has been developed and who can be very uncooperative.

In any case at this point in time it's more in Poland's best interests to be in the EU rather than out of it.
Wulkan - | 3,198    
17 Jul 2017  #99

In any case at this point in time it's more in Poland's best interests to be in the EU rather than out of it.

It's in every single countries interest to be sovereign and free from any form of outside dictatorship.
Atch 9 | 1,684    
17 Jul 2017  #100

As opposed to having the home-grown variety........
Harry 76 | 13,341    
17 Jul 2017  #101

Poland is heading down a very dangerous path.

Have you seen the coverage on TVPiS about the protests yesterday?
"The opposition tries to organise a coup against the democratically elected government"
"Poor attendance outside parliament despite Schetyna's calls for a coup"
"Shocking declarations of opposition militants"
"The opposition announces that it will break the law"
Even 1950s Pravda journalists weren't that bad!
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,886    
17 Jul 2017  #102

candlelit vigil

No that tasteless, crude and vulgar Muppet Show outside the Sejm, including threats of tearing up paving stones to storm the building.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,886    
17 Jul 2017  #103

completely detached from reality

Only for those who equate reality with the anarcho-leftist-liberal-libertine-atheist-PC mindframe regarded as the sole source of anti-values to follow.
Sorry, Atch, but not everyone buys into that. In fact, the majority of the Polish nation do not. Bogu niech będą dzięki!
mafketis 16 | 4,508    
17 Jul 2017  #104

It's in every single countries interest to be sovereign and free from any form of outside dictatorship.

So Albania and Romania were better off in the 1980s than now? Got it.

Your perfect country? North Korea!
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,886    
17 Jul 2017  #105

outside dictatorship

So you're in favour of outside dictatorship. Got it. Your perfect country:
Transnistria.
Atch 9 | 1,684    
17 Jul 2017  #106

Polly despite your world view it is a fact that the majority of Europeans, (can't speak for America) are very normal people who lead ordinary normal lives. I'm not an anarchist, nor am I a debauched libertine nor am I an atheist but your attitude is that anyone who doesn't agree with Kaczyński is precisely those things, so in fact it's you Polly and those like you, who are the nutcases and extremists.

In any case Polly, the 'reality' from which Kaczyński is detatched, is that we live in the 21st century, not in the early 20th and we have to adapt to it. I come from a country that's managed to do that quite successfully whilst still retaining a distinctive and I might say very Christian culture and preserving the best of its heritage, so it can be done.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,886    
17 Jul 2017  #107

home-grown variety

What do you think of Piłsudski? A ruthless, bloody dictator? Or the saviour of Poland? He was definitely authoritarian but without that there would be no Poland today. Extreme situaitons usually require resolute action.

Poland has gone through a quarter-century of Soros-insired Balcerite robber-baron sell-offs of the country's industrial assets and the wholesale takeover of the economy by foreign banks, retail chains and assembly plants. Then we've had 8 years of Platforemr scamsterism whose fraudsters cost the country billions in unpaid VAT next to which Ambergold pales in comparison. All that was grist to the mill of the elkitist post-commie mafia which lvied in the lap of luxury while ordinary Poles had to struggle to get by or emigrate. Woudl a rerun of Tusk-style "warm tap-water" rule have resolved those problems. Maybe Ireland is too small and feckless to stand up to their British overlords and the Brusselcrat dictatorship, but thankfully Poland is not!
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,886    
17 Jul 2017  #108

majority of Europeans

I agree. It is the poltical and media elites that are promoting the anarcho-leftist-liberal-libertine-LGBT-atheist-globalist-PC agenda and trying to force it down everyone's throat. Most people just do the best they can and live their lives. If they were really consulted about the nitty-grity of things, for instance via referenda, the situation would doubtless be far different. That was proved by Brexit as well as the victories of Trump, Orbán and Kaczyński as well as the rise of patriotic rightist movements in Austria, Denmark, France and elsewhere. That shows growing public disaffection with the dictatorship of the same old lefist-liberal elites.
Atch 9 | 1,684    
17 Jul 2017  #109

Maybe Ireland is too small and feckless to stand up to their British overlords

I might point out that Ireland stood up far more succesfully to their overlords than Poland did to theirs. We kicked their arses in a war. Irish men - and indeed women - fought, really fought and gave their lives for Irish independence, unlike Poland who had it handed it to them on a plate in 1918.

Extreme situaitons

I'm not sure what extreme situation you think Poland is in at present that requires the measures which are being implemented.

Piłsudski?

And there you go, proving my point, referencing events of a hundred years ago, in a Europe that has changed immeasurably since, as a model to follow in today's world.
Ziemowit 8 | 2,522    
17 Jul 2017  #110

It's also very sinister in that this is the beginning of a process which starts with state mechanisms and gradually reaches out into the everyday lives of ordinary people

Putting all Polly's pro-PiS ranting aside, the point you are making is quite interesting. Observing the political scene from the inside (and not from somewhere outside Poland) and not being particularly prejudiced againt PiS (just like jonno or Harro are), you and I are in a position to confront certain ideas of PiS with facts more objectively than the sides engaged in this political discussion on the PF (which mimics the conflict between PiS against PO themselves). Here are two issues which caught my attention recently:

1. Rafał Ziemkiewicz, fervent PiS supporter, recently spoke very critically about the changes PiS introduces into Poland's judiciary system saying that it is like replacing one horde with another or something along these lines rather than promoting a genuine reform.

2. A few days ago I was watching with fascination a rather long economic program on public TV (TVP3) describing the economic situation in Poland in extremely bright colours and stressing in particular that the budget deficit is to diminish sharply as a result of the wise economic policy of the present government. Then two day after that we all heard the news of the necessity for introducing a fuel fee (opłata paliwowa) of 0,20 zloty per litre.
Harry 76 | 13,341    
17 Jul 2017  #111

so in fact it's you Polly and those like you, who are the nutcases and extremists.

You hit the nail on the head there.

No that tasteless, crude and vulgar Muppet Show outside the Sejm, including threats of tearing up paving stones to storm the building.

Unlike you, I was there, so I can base my statements about the event on what I saw for myself, while you are basing your laughable claims on what you heard on Radio Maybach. Not only did I neither see nor hear any comments about storming the building, but I know that the parts of Wiejska which we were limited to only have paving slabs which cannot be thrown, not chuckable cobblestones.

I'm not sure what extreme situation you think Poland is in at present that requires the measures which are being implemented.

Poland most certainly is in an extreme situation. The problem is that the people who wrote the constitution simply never imagined a situation in which a government would simply ignore what the constitution says, so they didn't put in place any mechanisms to deal with that. For all the nonsense coming from TVPiS about calls for a coup, we're rapidly approaching the point at which that will be the least worst solution.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,886    
17 Jul 2017  #112

what extreme situation you think Poland is in

Being robbed blind by the post-commie elites, many of whom in the early 1990s should have been prosecuted for their commie-era crimes (including martial law), forced to return their ill-gotten gains including years of dipping in the till and abnormally high old-age pensions and/or barred from public office for at least ten years and/or forced to return their ill-gotten gains such as inordinately higher than average incomes.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,886    
17 Jul 2017  #113

@Atch

handed it to them on a plate in 1918

I beg your pardon, Madam, Poland continued the fight to secure its borders until 1922. You have sureły heard of the Wielkopolska Insurrection, the Silesian Uprising, the Polish-Bolshevik war, Gen. Haller's Army (inclduding thousands of PolAm volunteers) recapturing Lwów and parts of eastern Galicja and General Żeligowski's foray into Central Lithuania. There were no silver plates or platters, believe me! Ask Mr Atch, he'll tell you. And please give him my best pozdrowienia.
gregy741 3 | 995    
17 Jul 2017  #114

I might point out that Ireland stood up far more successfully to their overlords than Poland did to theirs.

dont be silly...Polands stood up to germany and russia for like 800 years,the very first war vs HGE we won-during boleslaw the brave first king of Poland.,plus we hold against mongols,ottomans,vikings ,tatars ect.and whatever else.not to mention ,we didnt have luxury of being on island surrounded by sea .

ahhhh women and logic and facts
Ziemowit 8 | 2,522    
17 Jul 2017  #115

ou have sureły heard of the Wielkopolska Insurrection, the Silesian Uprising, the Polish-Bolshevik war

And the Polish-Bolshevik war was the most important of them all. I am not sure if Ms Atch knows it, but Lenin's important aim was to "export" the Bolshevik revolution to the west of Europe. If the Soviet communist hordes had succeeded to conquer Poland, it is very much likely that Germany would have been taken by them, too, and with Germany in their hands Europe would have been totally different from what it was after 1918.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,886    
17 Jul 2017  #116

we're rapidly approaching the point

We're rapidly approaching the point where the so-called total opposition will pant, chant, rant and rave, spew their venom, blow their silly little red horns and wave their tastelessly insulting placards and then go home to watch a match, enjoy supper, vsit a pub or exercise the dog. And its been going on since even before the election when the brother of judicial murderer Stefan warned of impending fascism and has been ranting and PiS-bashing ever since. BTW did you see and get close enough to to Michnik to kiss his behind? The big phoney was ranting against the nasty commie-era judges and prosecutors who signed the pre-packaged verdicts and sentences handed to him but conveniently failed to mention his own brother Stefan who has Polish blood on his hands. Then when someone approached Adam and asked: "When are you going to apologise for your brother the murderer?" he showed all his class and elegance by replying: "Ty skurwysynu, jak ty zmądrzejesz!" Rush to Google translate!)

actually milling about in crowd of several thousands one cannot get the full overview provided by live TV coverage highlighting the word and activities of different agitators and hotheads.

Anyway, there will be more such Muppet Shows featuring the same tired faces of political has-beens and an increasingly diminishing army of regulars and semi-professional protesters. Schetyna predicted 100,000 would show up but only 4,700 actually did. Next time there'll be even fewer until finally the whole thing peters out and Poland will enter an at least 20-year period of good-change Law and Justice rule. And dzięki Bogu for that!
Harry 76 | 13,341    
17 Jul 2017  #117

actually milling about in crowd of several thousands one cannot get the full overview provided by live TV coverage highlighting the word and activities of different agitators and hotheads.

If one watched TVPiS and believed every word one would get no view at all about the events. Being at the event in Warsaw means that I am able to nail the lie you told here, after hearing it on Radio Maybach no doubt, that protesters were planning to throw paving slabs as part of an attempt to storm the Parliament building.

BTW did you see and get close enough to to Michnik to kiss his behind?

Are you ever going to get over your bitterness towards him? It was all a long time ago and he made the right decision. Just let it go.

Schetyna predicted 100,000 would show up but only 4,700 actually did. ... Poland will enter an at least 20-year period of good-change Law and Justice rule.

TVPiS may have reported that, but I'd need to see video of him saying that before I believe your latest claim.
As for your 20-year regime, if it's allowed to be established it'll probably last longer than that. First Secretary Kaczynski is obviously terrified of free and fair elections, as the end result of the next one will be him going to prison, and he'll stop at nothing to prevent them from being held. Still, at least now the likes of the Podunk County Polish Pig Farmer's Gazette have all gone bankrupt the Party will find it harder to pull the wool over the eyes of the international community; already the illegal actions of the PiSlamic State are making front page news all over the world.
Atch 9 | 1,684    
17 Jul 2017  #118

Poland continued the fight to secure its borders until 1922.

Not the same thing Polly. None of those uprisings lasted more than a few weeks and occurred as a result of Poland being unhappy with the deal on the table regarding re-establishing the nation of Poland which was returned to them as a result of the allied victory in the First World War. Having said that of course I have the utmost respect for the Poles who fought in those and previous uprisings.

Polands stood up to germany and russia for like 800 years,

As did Ireland against England from the 1100s onwards, before that the Vikings as well as doing our bit in both the First and Second World Wars, with an entirely voluntary force, not conscripted.

we didnt have luxury of being on island surrounded by sea .

You great ignorant lummox. We were an occupied nation. Just for a small sample of what that meant, read about Cromwell and his activities in Ireland. But of course you won't. Funnily enough,there's a lighthearted Irish rebel song with the chorus:

The sea, oh the sea is the 'grádh geal mo croídhe' (that means love of my heart)
Long may it stay between England and me
It's a sure guarantee that some hour we'll be free
Thank God we're surrounded by water.

facts

Of which you are entirely ignorant. At least I know something of Polish history so I'm in a position to discuss it.

By the way, on the subject of Lenin, bet you didn't know that he spoke English with an Irish accent (as indeed and coincidentally did the daughters of Tsar Nicholas II).
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,886    
17 Jul 2017  #119

front page news

Thanks to close-to-your-snitcher's-heart Targowica-style snitchers spreading their treasonous lies abroad and trying to solicit "fraternal assistancce" from Brussels or preferabyl the Bundeswehr. No such luck. NATO is vigilant and ever ready to defend Poland from outside forces.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,886    
17 Jul 2017  #120

Second World War

Speaking of extremism and WW2, did you know Portugal and Ireland were the only
two countries that sent condolences to Berlin on word of Hitler's death?




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