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Curb shack-up privileges - black MP John Goodson appealing to the labour minister


polonius 54 | 420
4 Nov 2012  #1
Wprost.pl reported PO Afro-Polish MP John Goodson appealing to the labour minister to cut back on the privileges available to unmarried couples living in concubinage (common law). Goodson, an ordaiend Protestant minister, expressed concern over the fact that there were 4,800 fewer marriages and 2,700 more divorces in Poland than in the same period of 2011.

Experience shows that many people in Poland deliberately avoid marriage to be able to enjoy the privileges for the lonely. Experts suggest that in 2003, when increased significantly allowance for single-parent families , the number of applications for separations increased by over 200 percent . - He stressed.

According to Godson privileges for single parents are justified in cases where the use of them , those who as a result of random events, for example . Spouse's death , fell into trouble. In the opinion Godson because of the privileges in Poland better live in cohabiting than married . People formally lonely can easily enroll your child in nursery school or kindergarten , and can enjoy the benefits. - But no one checks to see if it really is a child raised by a single parent , or on the contrary , the mother and father live together but are not married - emphasizes policies.

Harry
4 Nov 2012  #2
Ironic that somebody who came to Poland as a foreigner wants to change a status which all foreigners who want to live with a Pole without marrying them are forced to use.
OP polonius 54 | 420
4 Nov 2012  #3
Godson is a man of God and is sharing Christian values with his fellow-man regardlesws of borders. It is the duty of every Chrsitian to evangelise. There are expats on PF who have no qualms about spreading libertine-decadent Sick Europe values in Poland.
Harry
4 Nov 2012  #4
There was once a man named Jesus who had quite fixed views about not forcing one's views onto other people but you would no doubt write him off as a dirty hippy who had libertine-decadent values.

As for Sick Europe, would that be the same place where churches are being turned into brothels? The ones you refuse to give us details about.
NorthMancPolak 4 | 648
4 Nov 2012  #5
Godson is a man of God and is sharing Christian values with his fellow-man regardlesws of borders. It is the duty of every Chrsitian to evangelise.

Then it's time they left the Dark Ages and stopped their unwelcome, patronising preaching to those who do not wish to be converted. Some people aren't interested in being "saved" - get over it. If you think you need saving, then fine - go and get saved!

The most ironic thing is, Africans were originally far more spiritual than the colonisers who violently imposed a certain so-called superior religion upon them.

There are expats on PF who have no qualms about spreading libertine-decadent Sick Europe values in Poland.

That's a separate off-topic issue, so stop trolling.

Of the most sickening values I can think of, most exist in ultra-religious countries, and not secular ones.

If you want to go back to Old Testament times, then perhaps you should move to somewhere where stoning for adultery or homosexuality is the punishment. I'm not gay or an adulterer, but I would rather live in a country with laws which are too liberal than one where laws are too extreme, particularly if they are backed up by religious beliefs. In case you haven't noticed, these countries are full of people who would gladly escape to a "sick" country like yours.

What people do in their bedrooms is NOTHING to do with you, and it should be nothing to do with politicians, and nothing to do with priests or vicars - unless you are a practising member of a particular religion. In which case, you are free to accept their rules, and accept their punishments. Or is stoning and burning only applicable to members of certain groups/ethnicities, and not offending Pol-Ams? That reminds me of a certain dodgy Austrian bloke with an even dodgier moustache - which certain US Polonia seem to worship. What a coincidence.

As for Sick Europe, would that be the same place where churches are being turned into brothels? The ones you refuse to give us details about.

Many of us (expats as well as UK Polonia) are still waiting for the reply :D
Wroclaw Boy
4 Nov 2012  #6
Godson is a man of God and is sharing Christian values with his fellow-man regardlesws of borders.

ahh the ultimate excuse, wake up man.

There was once a man named Jesus who had quite fixed views about not forcing one's views onto other people but you would no doubt write him off as a dirty hippy who had libertine-decadent values.

nice....
smurf 39 | 1,982
4 Nov 2012  #7
Godson is a man of God and is sharing Christian values with his fellow-man regardlesws of borders. It is the duty of every Chrsitian to evangelise. There are expats on PF who have no qualms about spreading libertine-decadent Sick Europe values in Poland.

shuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrruuuuuuuuuuuuuuupppppppppppppppppp pp

.........a broken record, going round and round and round and skipping and skipping and skipping.
You make me hate this forum Polonius.
OP polonius 54 | 420
4 Nov 2012  #8
Jesus never rescinded the 6th commandment and did not promote libertine-decadent lifestyle such as fornication, adultery and infidelity or forms of deviant behaviour. He also stiffened the Jews' stand on divorce. Read the New Testament. He did not turn away prostitutes, theives or other sinners, but forgave and admonisehd them to: Go and sin no more!

The godless lecturing Catholics on Christianity!? Laughable to be sure!
NorthMancPolak 4 | 648
4 Nov 2012  #9
The godless lecturing Catholics on Christianity!? Laughable to be sure!

Nowhere near as laughable as Christians who believe that non-Christians should be subject to the same rules; and, if they refuse to accept those rules, they are branded as (your words) "deviant". There's nothing "deviant" about sex outside marriage, unless you're religious - in which case, you are free not to break this rule. These rules do not apply to me, as I'm not religious. This doesn't make me a bad person, just a non-religious one. People were having sex outside marriage thousands of years before "modern" religions existed and imposed their pointless rules on everyone.

Besides, if children are indeed a "gift from God", as you Christians often proclaim, then please explain why God chooses to deliver those gifts to victims of rape, or why it's possible to get your sister pregnant? That's a funny interpretation of the rules on so-called "fornication" and adultery, don't you think? Then again, as priests seem to love sex with little boys, it's not just the secular who deserve to be described as "deviant".

You make me hate this forum Polonius.

+1

It could make me hate Christians as well. Fortunately, most Christians are decent people, and are not represented by some clueless, bigoted PiS-supporting Pol-Am.
OP polonius 54 | 420
4 Nov 2012  #10
In a free country people are free to live like livestock if they so prefer. There is no law requiring anyone to espouse higher values. Besides, if you diasgree with MP Godson and believe shackers-up should not have their privileges diminished, then take it up with him. You'll find his biuro poselskie somewhere on the net.
Harry
4 Nov 2012  #11
In a free country people are free to live like livestock if they so prefer.

That's a very Christian thing to say.

There is no law requiring anyone to espouse higher values.

The point is that people should not punish those who choose not to follow other people's moral standards. Jesus had very fixed views about not forcing people to do things or punishing them, but it's easy to understand why you choose to ignore the teachings of what you would dismiss as a dirty hippy.
OP polonius 54 | 420
4 Nov 2012  #12
If the shoe fits, wear it!
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
4 Nov 2012  #13
believe shackers-up should not have their privileges diminished,

Apart from everything else, I don't think you quite understand what exactly it is that Mr Godson is talking about. The only thing he did actually say was that if you're pretending to be single, and claiming benefits as such, but you're actually living with a partner, your benefits should be taken away.

"Apeluje o ukrócenie przywilejów konkubentów, formalnie żyjących jako single - podaje Onet. "

In other words, he has not said anything at all about "shacking up" and "people living like livestock". Don't let that deter you though :->
smurf 39 | 1,982
4 Nov 2012  #14
Apart from everything else, I don't think you quite understand what exactly it is that Mr Godson is talking about. The only thing he did actually say was that if you're pretending to be single, and claiming benefits as such, but you're actually living with a partner, your benefits should be taken away.

Bahahahaha, you're been found out Bobbo.
Lying thru your gnashers.
Shameful display old chap.
Unlucky.

Well done Magda *hugs
Harry
4 Nov 2012  #15
In other words, he has not said anything at all about "shacking up" and "people living like livestock". Don't let that deter you though :->

But wait: polonius said that the man wants Poland to "Curb shack-up privileges"; surely you cannot mean that Polonius was being less than entirely truthful about what the man said?!
Varsovian 92 | 634
5 Nov 2012  #16
I don't see why Godson aroused so much vitriol. Marriage is essentially a civil contract in Poland. It attracts certain, limited benefits and encourages people to stick together. Single parents get benefits that are not open to married couples, for understandable reasons. Naturally, where a system has loopholes and people can see a way to make a few extra zlots by lying, then some try their luck.

On a wider front, statistically, marriage is undeniably far preferable as a system that delivers a more stable family life for children than cohabitation. Children born to unmarried parents are statistically disadvantaged.

Morality is an individual thing, of course, but I feel you shouldn't condemn a Christian if he were to speak of Christian morality.

But, perhaps we should fall in with the progressive voice of PF mainstream opinion and respond to blacks and Christians with contempt.
Richfilth 6 | 415
5 Nov 2012  #17
On a wider front, statistically, marriage is undeniably far preferable as a system that delivers a more stable family life for children than cohabitation. Children born to unmarried parents are statistically disadvantaged.

I would like to see those statistics, especially in relation to Polish families. "Preferable" and "stable" are very much arguable points here. There's also the deeper issue that, statistically, married couples have fewer children than unmarried ones, and the birth rate in Poland is critically low.

Regarding the original point, I'd love to have the privileges of marriage commuted to co-habiting couples; especially the legal tax dodge where I commute my salary to my low-earning wife to avoid the 30% tax bracket. But no, that won't happen; avoiding your social responsibility is only for those with "higher values".
Varsovian 92 | 634
5 Nov 2012  #18
Richfilth - the simple matter is that politicians should run the country in a way that makes economic sense. Encouraging families based on cohabiting makes no economic sense. Statistically, unmarried couples suffer more relationship breakdown and statistically their children are disadvantaged in terms of health, education, crime, wealth, future ability to form long-term relationships ...

On family policy, civil marriage meets utility - i.e. getting value for money in the big picture. I think politicians should engage in joined-up thinking and look after the country's no. 1 resource, it's people.
Richfilth 6 | 415
5 Nov 2012  #19
I keep hearing the word "statistically" but I don't see anything to back it up. How are statistics about co-habiting couples compiled, if those couples don't fill in any official registration of their relationship? How do schools, hospitals or any other centre that tracks the status of children know whether the mother has a live-in partner or not?

If politicians should run the country economically, then they should not allow married couples to have a tax break; they're not living any more cheaply than two students in a flat-share, or two elderly spinsters, or any other two-person combination under one roof. Making everyone pay their fair share is far more sense than giving some people an advantage based on spurious incentives ("please have babies!) that have no founding in statistics.
OP polonius 54 | 420
5 Nov 2012  #20
The American Public Health Association has released a study showing that unmarried parents reported more mental health and behavioral problems than did married parents, and unmarried parents whose relationships ended before the birth reported more impairment compared with other groups of unmarried parents. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1586128/
Varsovian 92 | 634
5 Nov 2012  #21
polonius - there are a million and one more reports like this but the individuals who argue themselves blue in the face against the facts will refuse to accept the boring truth that marriage benefits society at large by creating a framework that promotes commitment and punishes a lack of commitment.


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