American soldiers beat up in Torun, Łódź

You must have led a very sheltered life in your Polish village if you didn't see violence against minorities there.

Rubbish. You have very clearly never been anywhere in Poland with anybody who is not white.

BTW, given that the odd of winning the lottery are one in sixteen million but every year 1.1% of the population are victims of assaults which are reported to the police, it seems that your claim is somewhat less than truthful.

I love my village, very peaceful indeed.

More probably there simply were not any minorities there.

For obvious reasons.

BTW if you factor in the multiple occasions you’ve mentioned earlier I have downplayed those odds.

Harry, you claim to have been living in Poland for 17 years and you still do not understand anything about the country. Hoodlums do not need any real reason to beat someone up. All they need is a slight excuse. They are opportunists. If the potential victim looks weak (as those Americans do) the worse for him. If he looks strong then they might feel like taking him up to a challenge. Statistically, Harry, your racist theory does not hold any water. The fact that one of them looked Korean is irrelevant. He was after several drinks, he was in the uniform, he looked weak and therefore a good target. The fact that the thugs also stole his buddy's expensive cell phone (iPhone?) shows how opportunistic the thugs were.

Anyway, here are some recent examples. And what is a common denominator here? Definitely not a race, but the place where beatings occur: night clubs, bars, etc. And this usually happens late at night.

2012-03-11: Mikołaj Burda, a five-times rowing medalist of European Championships, was sucker punched for no apparent reason, in one of Toruń's night clubs. He hit the ground, passed out, and consequently he is on observation in a hospital in Toruń. He is neither Black nor Asian, and he looks quite strong.

2012-02-12
Alan Andersz (24), Polish actor and dancer, was taken in serious condition to hospital, after either a fight or a sucker punch, as a result of which he either hit a pot or fell down the stairs. This happened in one of Warsaw's clubs. He does not look to me Black or Asian either. Excuse:? He was supposedly showing off.

2012-03-02
Włodawa. Two brothers (22, 24) beat up a 40 years old man with a rail, apparently because he was defending a barmaid. The Lublin's criminal chronicle does mentioned their skin colour, Harry, but I guess he was neither Black or Asian.

Harry, I am not going to waste my time searching through tabloids in order to make up my own statistical data file. The police produces some statistics, for example this: policja.pl, which may help evaluating the beating incident in Toruń in proper light. Check "Aktualności" (use pulldown menu to select a crime category), check also Statystyka (ogólne statystyki and wybrane statystyki); that is General Statistics and Selected Statistics.

According to them, there were about 12,000 proven fights and assaults in Poland in year 2011. A very small number compared to robberies, thieveries, etc..

There were 2319 suspected crimes committed by foreigners, and 1219 foreign victims on territory of Poland in the year 2010. Country wise the corresponding numbers are like this: (Great Britain 15 67), (USA 10 25), (Belarus 157 35), (France 20 50), (Lithuania 187 37), (Germany 137 297), (Ukraine 659 111), (Russia 133 42), etc.

(Another statistics at the same site, for the ¾ of year 2009, shows 16 foreign victims of assault.)

Locations of brawls or beatings for year 2010: (house 336), (multiplex 708), (cottage 12), (hotel, motel 31), (camping, campsite 17), (shopping centre 49), (warehouse 3), (service workshop 4), (restaurant, bar 594), (boutique 56), (train 14).

So now, putting it all together: 12,000 brawl and assaults, 594 of them in bars, 25 American victims, assumed 10 of them beaten up, assumed all assaults racist and not sexist, assumed 5 of them Black. What does it give us? Black Americans beaten up in bars in Poland are about 1% of total assaults. But wait, if I take a hint from another statistic that claims a total of 16 assaults on foreigners, than if 50% of them are Black or Asian, than we come to more or less the same conclusion: non-white foreigners beaten in bars/clubs are about 1-2% of total number of assaults. The results would look even less significant if I included other public spaces.

Surely police statistics are biased. Sure, the racially motivating beating happen, I am not denying it. But, unless you prove that any significant percentage (> 20% cases perhaps?) of such incidents belong to racial category in Poland, I am going to ignore your 17 years experience in Poland and your gut feelings.

Oh, you do not need to rush with your response. I will be out for several hours, counting now.

it's not uncommon for bar fights to happen anywhere in the world. People drink, get drunk and look for reasons to fight. They got chips on their shoulders. Enter at your own risk!

If it was so irrelevant, why did you leave it out when writing up your version of the article I linked to and why didn't you link to the article? I wonder.


Funny that now you directly contradict the article which you previously claimed "told it as it was".


I wonder why you don't bother to link to the data you claim? Could it be because you are not telling the truth? Let's see:

The first attack [in Bialystok] was on the night of September 15 at around 10.40 pm, unknown stoned holigans throwed stones to a flat where Chechen refugees was praying. Assailants knocked to three windows of the flat. One of the Chechens injured in his hand and cheek with shards of the glass. After the attack, holigans fled into the settlement. When a police patrol arrived to crime scene, they called an ambulance for the victim.

At the same day, there was another racist attack against Chechen refugees. Again some unknown people broke a car of one Chechen refugee and threw a kind of incendiary substance inside the car. As a result of the attack, interior of the car was burned.

The following attack was on Wednesday night, September 16 at around 11.00 pm. This time attackers threw petrol bottles to a flat.

Ayzan Nukaeva and Larisa Ismailova were walking down to the bus stop in Pilsudskiego Street near Stokrotka shop in Lomza around 7 pm on September 25, 2009. A man in black tracksuit and with a hood on head approached to Chechen women and hit to face of one of them. Right away the Chechen woman collapsed when the attacker sprayed her with a tear gas. The second woman tried to pull away the attacker. He also knocked her down and sprayed with tear gas.

So in a ten day period in 2009 in only two cities we have four racist attacks against member of one nation. But you seriously expect us to believe your ridiculous claim that there were only 16 foreign victims of assault in nine months in the whole of Poland? Please do not insult the intelligence of the readers of this forum.

failure at what? you act as if you're completely surprised that an american soldier can lose a fist fight. what a stupid thread.

That was an exact translation of what the tabloid wrote.. not my own person views on the subject.

Why are you so agitated fuss?


It well maybe one of you, Harry or delphinium just to rise the number of foreign victims in Poland in order to prove that Poles are racist.

That's actually quite a scary figure when you consider that the amount of Black Americans in Poland would be far less than 1% of the total amount of people living here.

Are you accusing me of assaulting two women?

Mods: how long do I have to put up with this gentleman's constant stream of personal abuse?

Given that accusations of mental illness go unpunished here, I wouldn't hold my breath expecting anything.

Given the fact that it is not me who is taking threads off topic on regular basic, gang up to goad and provoke posters one disagree with, accuse people of all kinds of vice, dish personal abuse as it come and make a nuisance out of himself, cannot face the facts and much more ...I suppose that I can sleep safe in knowledge that if I will get banned you will follow !

You have no sense of humor Harry and I don't mean laughing at somebody's misfortune, sad Harry.

In Poland as in any country, there are neighborhoods where one can get attacked just for not being from there or looking wrong at somebody. My cousin back in Stalowa Wola noticed that a group of skinheads were walking by (drunk) and one was saying 'man I really feel like kicking someones ass right now' he spotted a guy across the street, who was also a skinhead, ran over there and beat him up. Those people are social degenerates.

" In Poland as in any country, there are neighborhoods where one can get attacked just for not being from there or looking wrong at somebody."

Yes, but there are also places where you are rather unlikely to have trouble if you're a white foreigner but likely to have trouble if you're a non-white foreigner.

I really wouldn't be surprised if Stalowa Wola was such a place, certainly seemed to fit the profile.

Not so much neighbourhoods but more bars or anywhere alcohol is involved.

My own feeling was that this was a typical barroom brawl. The fact that the two attacked were foreign would certainly have been an exacerbating factor as would one of them being of Korean heritage. If they weren't foreign but were from Warsaw - maybe that would have been too.

Certainly anyone who appears a little different is more vulnerable.

Unfortunately that is possible. I say this as an American who has stayed in Poland for a while.

Any video clips of the scrap?

uhmmmm.....like most people that live in Poland. I can personally guarantee you that some of my wife's older family that live in villages have literally never seen a black person in their lives.

pick a village, any village.....white as snow.

hell, walk around any major city in Poland and you'd be hard pressed to find someone that isn't white without walking into ethnic shops or straight through the rynek or into expat hangouts. I went MONTHS at a time in Wroclaw not seeing a single black person and believe me, I walked my a$$ off all through Wroclaw, every day, not to mention running 25+ miles a week along the streets and sidewalks.

Not true. Plenty of them floating around Poznan, and that's in a city that doesn't have "expat hangouts" or "ethnic shops".

Not to mention the countless Asians and (more and more) Arabs.

Because not all sources I browsed, like the one I am linking right below, ever mentioned Korean roots of one of them. But all of the sources, clearly said the same thing here:


torun.gra.fm/informacje/22678/zolnierze-z-ameryki-pobici-przez-braci-z-bydgoskiego-przedmiescia

And that's the point I raised.



torun.gra.fm/informacje/22678/zolnierze-z-ameryki-pobici-przez-braci-z-bydgoskiego-przedmiescia

Well Harry, you are manipulating the truth here. All sources I read mentioned exactly that. What's more, they described the following scene:


Fall over when running after the attacker? So there must have been more than two drinks, and they were quite strong too. But this is actually irrelevant.

pomorska.pl/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120306/TORUN01/120309758


No sunshine, you just are too lazy. I posted the general link in post #67 - with the instruction how to use it, in case you missed something.


There are many tables up there, but any intelligent human being would know how to find them from the description I provided. But since you are such a sissy, here they are:

statystyka.policja.pl/portal/st/932/50867/Cudzoziemcy__przestepczosc.html]
statystyka.policja.pl/portal/st/840/48245/Pokrzywdzeni_cudzoziemcy.html


Of course I don't. Did not I say that in post #67?


So stop spreading gossip around and prove what I was asking you to do. How hard is it to admit that you may be wrong sometimes, Harry?

Hmmmm. Wroclaw's got John Bull Pub, Guinness Pub......none in Poznan?

anyway, beats me. in Wroclaw it was always a very rare sighting.

Meaning that some did but you still failed to mention that fact. Well it's pretty damn clear why you didn't mention that.


Really? The source you have just offered us torun.gra.fm/informacje/22678/zolnierze-z-ameryki-pobici-przez-braci-z-bydgoskiego-przedmiescia says that the Americans were knocked over. Is your source no longer perfect? Surely you can not be cherry-picking from what your sources say in order to support your ridiculous position that race played no part in this attack? Pathetic.


As far as Warsaw goes, that is complete and utter rubbish, I see non-white faces pretty much every single day.

"Amerykanie się przewrócili." That's verbatim from the article you linked to. "The Americans fell over".

Also, nobody so far referred to the fact that the attackers were brothers from Bydgoskie Przedmieście. Anyone who knows Toruń even the littlest bit will tell you that Bydgoskie Przedmieście is where the bad boys live. The area is famous for its street fights and hostility towards non-residents, which is often exported outside the neighbourhood. ;-)

In other words - don't mess with Bydgoskie Przedmieście, whoever you are, unless you live there yourself!

No Harry, the source you linked earlier (gazeta) as well as the source you are linking now (gra.fm) say that the Americans tripped over when they got into a chase after the mobile thief. How is your Polish?

Apparently your Polish is not that good and you had to use the help of good old Google. You are funny man.
This is the phrase in Polish: Pościg żołnierzy zakończył się niepowodzeniem. Amerykanie się przewrócili.
This is how I translated it: The chase of the soldiers ended in failure. Americans fell down.
Well yes, Google translated "Amerykanie się przewrócili" as "Americans were knocked down".

Congratulation Harry, 17 years in Poland and making such basic translation errors! Pathetic! - to use your favourite expression.

It doesn't say much for the American soldiers if they couldn't outrun a chav. Must be all those hamburgers in the mess hall.