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Polish Airline LOT has the biggest fleet of 737-8MAX in continental Europe..grounded


Weimarer 3 | 183
17 Mar 2019  #1
While no german airline has ordered a single 737-8MAX, the polish LOT has ordered over 12 machines of that type.

LOT is the only EU airline that has not a single airbus in its fleet. American ass kissing of the finest and now they get the boot for it.

Its entire 737-8MAX fleet is grounded and not allowed to fly in the EU. They aircraft has a massive design flaw. Its said for each grounded aircraft, the airline makes each day 250.000 € losses. LOT has 5 of the flawed aircrafts already in service. Which means they make 1.25 million losses each single day.

Today it was announced teh fligh recorder of the crashed ethiopian airlines machine shows same data as teh crashed Lion Air machine in Indonies. Experts say the aircraft has a serious flaw. Its engines (which were originally intended for A320) are too big for the old hull design.

A critical design flaw that cant be changed easily. Even more so on machines already build .

Boeing said nothing about compensations. LOT most likely will need to go year long law suits. But even more pressing is how Poland will try to replace the flawed aircrafts. Airbus order books are full.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,531
17 Mar 2019  #2
A critical design flaw that cant be changed easily.

Have you seen this article?
seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/failed-certification-faa-missed-safety-issues-in-the-737-max-system-implicated-in-the-lion-air-crash/

Can't argue with your post at all. The 737-Max 8 was just a step way too far, all because Boeing were trying to copy the Airbus philosophy of having commonality in the A320 family when the 737-Max 8 was clearly not the same plane as the classic 737 family.

You've forgotten to add that 3 (I think...?) of the 787's belonging to LOT are also parked because of engine issues. LOT are essentially having to lease planes at a high cost just to cover flights, which means they're going to sustain astronomic losses.
OP Weimarer 3 | 183
17 Mar 2019  #3
I dont understand this honestly. How can someone be so much a slave to someone to take massive losses just to please his master?

LOT was first customer of the 787 and struggles till today from this as you said yourself.

Now the 737-8MAX is an even bigger disaster.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,531
17 Mar 2019  #4
Lobbying and corruption is your answer.
OP Weimarer 3 | 183
17 Mar 2019  #5
I know lobbying and corruption but why crawls Poland so deep into US ass?
mafketis 19 | 6,853
18 Mar 2019  #6
The 737-Max 8 was just a step way too far

It has a special 'crash the plane' feature. From putting a couple of things I've read together, I think we'll be seeing a lot more of this kind of thing.

Partly it's the expansion of sillicone valley into other areas of the economy (software is now at diminishing returns so they're expanding and taking their lax approach to safety problems with them - their whole business model is: release quickly and fix problems later.
OP Weimarer 3 | 183
18 Mar 2019  #7
Thats deadly in aircrafts. The 2nd crash basically was murder.
mafketis 19 | 6,853
19 Mar 2019  #8
Thats deadly in aircrafts

Very true. As the old saying goes "Safety regulations are written in blood."

But the 'slap something together and fix any bugs later' mentality from sillicone valley is just going to be spreading... In this way Venezuela is a good illustration. Forget the economics - that's what's going to happen as people lose control of technology...
Ziemowit 12 | 3,304
19 Mar 2019  #9
LOT is the only EU airline that has not a single airbus in its fleet.

But they have 46 of Embraer aircraft vs. 34 of Boeing (including those being ordered), so their fleet is not entirely North American.

corporate.lot.com/pl/pl/nasza-flota
Spike31 2 | 860
19 Mar 2019  #10
His point is that Poland is not financing failed Franco-German airbus A380 project and dared to choose American Boeing instead. How dare does the Generalgouvernement of Poland make its own sovereign decisions?

wired.co.uk/article/airbus-a380-failure
mafketis 19 | 6,853
19 Mar 2019  #11
dared to choose American Boeing

With it's exciting new "crash the plane" feature!

The leading edge of innovation!
Spike31 2 | 860
19 Mar 2019  #12
@mafketis, the nature of a free choice in correlated with risk.

You win some, you loose some yet it's your own choice.
jon357 63 | 14,076
19 Mar 2019  #13
With it's exciting new "crash the plane" feature!

Where do I sign up!

the nature of a free choice in correlated with risk.You win some, you lose some yet it's your own choice.

I'm sure those people whose job is to make detailed risk assessments and stringent safety regulations in order to minimise the possibility of paying customers, staff or anyone else getting maimed or killed would have plenty to say about that.
Spike31 2 | 860
19 Mar 2019  #14
Let's make it clear: LOT took a risk when making a choice between Airbus and Boeing but it's not transferring that risk on passengers!

The fleet is grounded and awaits to be inspected and fixed before it takes off.

There's a similar case with a new attack helicopter fleet that was about to be purchased from France by Polish army.

A few years ago a large contract for French Caracal helicopter for Polish army was signed by the former government of Poland. The new government has cancelled that contract and was heavily criticised for that by a liberal press.

No more than a year after the contract termination, over 50% of French army caracal helicopters were grounded due to "unfit to fly".

telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/16/ground-force-half-frances-military-planes-unfit-fly/
mafketis 19 | 6,853
19 Mar 2019  #15
LOT took a risk when making a choice between Airbus and Boeing but it's not transferring that risk on passengers!

It absolutely transferred that risk on to passengers until they grounded them. It could very easily have been a Polish plane where a single sensor failed sending the plane into a nosedive.

It's bad design (based on trying to squeeze more money out of flights - I know that airlines run on razor thin margins so I can sort of understand but there were not nearly enough safeguards in place to keep the plane from crashing.

I hope Boeing can survive this and learn something in the process....
Spike31 2 | 860
19 Mar 2019  #16
LOT has grounded all of them few hours before even EASA [European Aviation Safety Agency] has decided to ground all 737 Max 8 flights in Europe.
jon357 63 | 14,076
20 Mar 2019  #17
but it's not transferring that risk on passengers!

It did actually. The passengers, the crew and people under the flight path.

Those of us who fly quite often (12 times last month!) prefer belt and braces safety.
OP Weimarer 3 | 183
20 Mar 2019  #18
@mafketis
@Spike31

LOT got cheated twice.

The 787 they got from Boeing dont fly and have massive engine problems. LOT currently has to lease Airbus aircrafts to have operational long distance aircrafts in its fleet.

The problem in the 737 MAX8 is even more severe. The aircraft is flawed. Its engines are engiens designed for the A320. They are too big for the 737. This cant be fixed by a software update. The aircraft is structural compromised.

Over 300 people died because of that.

Boeing is in big trouble and only will survive because US government money support.

LOT on the other side currently has large parts of its fleet grounded. Loses each day 2 million €.

Lufthansa currently looks for new airlines to purchase. Maybe in a few weeks LOT will be bought by Lufthansa.

As for "caring" for passengers. LOT knew from day one that the 737 MAX is flawed. Lufthansa did not order a single one.

There is a reason why many renomated airlines did not order...experts knew something is wrong.


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