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Urgent Relationship help - wife wants to stay in Poland


BritboyByd 7 | 37
13 Apr 2017  #1
I married a polish lady 10 years ago. We have 2 kids. At the moment, I am living in the UK (I am British, limited polish) she is living in Poland (fluent english). I have done this to earn more money. I have told her to move to the UK, but the only reason seems for her to stay in POL is her job (salary 2500zl netto). I send over between 5000zl-6000zl every month to support the household, but never seems to go anywhere.

I have pointed out the pros and cons of living in the UK, but she doesnt want to listen or change. I feel we are heading for divorce.

I feel I am sending a lot of money over, which doesnt go anywhere, as although rent etc is cheaper in poland, all the other stuff adds up like nursery fees, doctors, medication which are covered in the Uk, alongside the chance she would earn more.

Any advice much appreciated, as I'm nearly at the end of the road.
Harry
13 Apr 2017  #2
I send over between 5000zl-6000zl every month to support the household, but never seems to go anywhere.

She has 7,500 to 8,500 a month to spend and can't make ends meet for a family of, in effect, three? There's something badly wrong with that picture.

I have pointed out the pros and cons of living in the UK, but she doesnt want to listen or change. I feel we are heading for divorce.

I get the feeling you're right.

Any advice much appreciated, as I'm nearly at the end of the road.

I'd strongly recommend against moving to Poland.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,493
13 Apr 2017  #3
I'd strongly recommend against moving to Poland.

And what if they find happiness living together in Poland?
OP BritboyByd 7 | 37
13 Apr 2017  #4
I have lived in Poland, but couldnt find a job (didnt want to teach english, so had no money really) and earn £2k a month in the UK now. I found the language too difficult and I found her family too suffocating (like we had to do everything with them, and not alone). So I told her I cant live in Poland anymore, that is non-negotiable. She doesnt want to move to the UK to be "just a pole".

Last year I sent over 75,000zl but still not enough.

Just dont know what to do anymore, as anytime I give her an ultimatum its a threat, or "how can you do this to the kids?" etc
Harry
13 Apr 2017  #5
happiness living together in Poland?

They would be very much the exception to the rule. And that's before we factor in the lower income the wife would need to put up with if he moved back to what I presume to be Bydgoszcz. In order to cover the extra costs of him being there and pay his taxes and still contribute 6,000zl a month, he'd need to find a job that pays at least 150,000zl a year and there aren't a lot of those in that city.
Atch 17 | 2,843
13 Apr 2017  #6
Britboy, here's a woman's perspective. I'm Irish, married to a Polish man. It's very common for Polish women to expect their husband to work in the UK or Ireland and send money back to them, visiting them maybe once a month or even less often. It's a major cultural difference which people often don't realise until it's too late. Polish women have different expectations of marriage. Your chief role is the breadwinner and supporter of the children and they are the most important thing to her, her own wellbeing and that of her extended family comes next and you come very much last. She will not leave her comfort zone and her extended family to live with you in England whilst you continue to provide handsomely for her.

This isn't really the place to come for relationship advice but for what it's worth, it sounds to me as if this marriage has reached the end of its life. Your wife sounds self-centred, unsupportive and uninterested in you and your emotional wellbeing and that's not likely to change. She will get completely hysterical if you mention divorce, so be prepared for that. And she may make it difficult for you to even speak to your children, let alone see them for a time at least. She will also want her pound of flesh financially so gird your loins and get ready,

I know I probably sound very harsh - I'm not. I actually feel very sorry for you especially if you still love your wife and it's really sad to be parted from your kids and not able to live together as a family.

And what if they find happiness living together in Poland?

That's not very likely. Coercion and emotional blackmail are not a good basis for establishing a happy future.
cms 9 | 1,272
13 Apr 2017  #7
Is there any way you could do some arrangement where you lived in Poland say one week a month, spent time with the kids, and then worked extra hard in the UK for the other three weeks. Without being a regular presence on your kids life Then I think there's probably not a lot of mileage left in your relationship. By the sounds of it, she also has extended family close to her involvement, and you have to accept that, that is probably one thing that is preventing her from moving to the UK.
OP BritboyByd 7 | 37
13 Apr 2017  #8
@Atch

I think this is a very astute post, and sums up the situation perfectly. Another thing, I think she enjoys is the fact that as I dont speak Polish she does everything (arranges talks to school, doctors, extra-curricular stuff) which the playing-field would be levelled in the UK, hence her power would diminish.

I give my advice and opinions, but they are ignored largely to what she wants to do. If she arrives at the same conclusion months down the line, then it is her idea/decision.

@ CMS

I have tried living in Pol for 1 week on 3 weeks UK, but doesnt work, as its more expensive (with flights/lack of earnings etc) and there is no progression anywhere.
jon357 63 | 14,122
13 Apr 2017  #9
7,500 to 8,500 a month to spend and can't make ends meet for a family of, in effect, three?

That's more than double most people's salary. Plus there's the money she is entitled to receive in child benefit under the 500+ scheme.

doctors

Poland has a health service too, not everyone goes private, in fact for anything serious or expensive most people don't.

Your wife sounds self-centred, unsupportive and uninterested in you and your emotional wellbeing and that's not likely to change

Sadly this is true.

She will get completely hysterical if you mention divorce

Not least because the Polish courts would award her a fraction of the amount you are paying now.
Harry
13 Apr 2017  #10
She will also want her pound of flesh financially so gird your loins and get ready

She's not going to get anything even close to 5,000zl a month. In that part of the world she'd be doing very well to get half that much, especially as she herself works.
OP BritboyByd 7 | 37
13 Apr 2017  #11
In a divorce what would a court say is "fair" in terms of maintenance?

The only thing stopping me so far is the fact the kids lifestyles would have to be downgraded.

But as has been pointed out on this thread is that threatening her to move to the UK is a type of blackmail/coercion, so even if she did it, anything that went wrong, I'd get blamed for it.

At the moment, I feel I am sending a lot of money over, for zero say in family life, and am becoming less relevant on a daily basis.
Harry
13 Apr 2017  #12
In a divorce what would a court say is "fair" in terms of maintenance?

Although I'm spit-balling somewhat without knowing what you earn, given the costs of bringing up a kid in Byd, I'd be thinking in the region of 1,000zl per kid, maybe as much as 1,500zl if she gets a very good lawyer.

I feel I am sending a lot of money over, for zero say in family life, and am becoming less relevant on a daily basis.

So send her half what you're sending now and tell her you've decided to start saving 250 quid per kid per month so that when they want to go to university they can do that and/or when they want to buy their first house they'll have a deposit to do it with.
Atch 17 | 2,843
13 Apr 2017  #13
There are a couple of factors to be aware of.

The law in Poland states that a child's material status should not suffer as a result of their parents divorcing which is obviously not possible, but that's the legal standpoint and the basis on which maintenance is decided.

The judge has complete discretion in deciding the amount of maintenance.
The amount of maintenance is not decided in the same manner as the UK by looking at the father's income and his outgoings. It's decided not on his earnings either, but his potential earnings. So in theory, if the judge thinks the father could get a better paid job than the one he has at present, then the judge can award a higher amount of maintenance than the father can actually afford.

As your earnings are very high by Polish standards, worst case scenario the judge could decide that you are well able to continue paying the amount you currently pay. Remember he doesn't have to take your own expenses into account.

Finally the court usually sympathises with the mother.

Having said all that 1500 per child sounds reasonable at the moment. But she can apply to have that increased every six months I think and believe me, she will. She will be able to find many things which the children 'need' which are going to cost extra, especially as they get older. Now she may not be awarded an increase but she may keep the pressure up.

One final thing. If you start a relationship with another woman in the future, her income will also be taken into account for maintenance purposes. Yes, I know it sounds mad but she is also liable for your childrens' maintenance. There was a thread on here a couple of years ago where an English woman was complaining about the fact that although her Polish husband was in full time studies and living with her in the UK, the Polish court had awarded a high amount of maintenance based on the fact that she was working. She couldn't believe that her salary was up for grabs, but there you go. To jest Polska!
spiritus 67 | 663
13 Apr 2017  #14
What you describe is simply not sustainable.

Can I ask if your original plan was to move to Poland together ? How long did you live in Poland before deciding to move back to the UK and was it a mutual agreement ? If not, then maybe the seeds were sown then.

You say you have pointed our the pros and cons of living in the UK but I think this misses the mark. You need to point out that that your marriage has reached a fork in the road. Both of you will have to compromise for it to work.

Do you see your family often ?
Harry
13 Apr 2017  #15
she can apply to have that increased every six months I think

I'm pretty sure that it's not at all for two years after the divorce and then only once a year. And courts tend to look unfavourably on parents who do constantly file for increases.

If you start a relationship with another woman in the future, her income will also be taken into account for maintenance purposes.

I think that that's only in cases where the couple are married.
OP BritboyByd 7 | 37
13 Apr 2017  #16
atch

This is important to know. I think this will end bitterly. Ive told her this, that there will be no winners. Sounds like the calm before the storm.

spiritus

Ive lived in Poland for the last 4 years, but I didnt like it, but stayed for the kids/not wanting to split up the family unit. So I moved to the UK to get more money, that was a year ago. I go back to Poland about every 6 weeks, for a long weekend. I said to the wife that about 6 months ago, that she should look at job opportunities in the UK, just a apply for a few jobs, and see the response, but nothing. Not interested. I think she would like to be a poor martyr, and a likely divorce would be built on her stubborness.
johnny reb 17 | 3,673
13 Apr 2017  #17
but she doesnt want to listen or change.

Has it occurred to you that YOU don't want to listen or change ?
My advice is explain to her that if she "forces you" to move to Poland you will which will be her loss financially.
Do not let the kids be used as a weapon of pity because children are resilient and adjust quickly.
Her on the other hand will be "forced" to lower her standards to the poverty level and her, not like a child, will find it very difficult to adjust to.

Let her decide to make her own life miserable by not allowing her to use you. (Divorce will follow shortly when you cut her off financially)

Keep her as broke as possible until she divorces you IN POLAND when the merry go round starts to slow down.
Bide your time until your children are old enough to make a legal choice of who they want to live with, divorce the unreasonable woman (if she hasn't already divorced you first) when they become of that age, move back to the UK with or without your grown children, find a few much younger women to date on the "catch and release" plan and FINALLY you will have YOUR life back.

Chalk it up to the nature of the beasts and your own poor judgment.
Now do you understand why so many guys are becoming gay ?
It's all the feminist movements fault.
Atch 17 | 2,843
13 Apr 2017  #18
@ Britboy, one of the problems with getting advice from the world and his wife is that they tend to bring their own issues to the table and those issues influence the advice they give. That's why people go to professional counsellors. As part of their training counsellors have to go through therapy themselves in case any unresolved issues they have may influence their judgement and ability to be objective with clients.

You'll get plenty of well meaning and conflicting advice from many members so now that you've found out the basics of what you wanted to know, perhaps it's time to withdraw for a while and think it over. Best of luck.
RubasznyRumcajs 5 | 463
13 Apr 2017  #19
@BritboyByd

my advice: get rid of her.
keep supporting your children (that's obvious), but stop sending her that amount of money. remember: kids do have both parents, there is no reason you should contribute to more than half of their upbringing (i.e. sponsor her lazy ass).

ideally, you should open a bank account and pay some money in for each of your children, they could use it when they grow up. they, not their mother.
OP BritboyByd 7 | 37
13 Apr 2017  #20
My bugbear is a lot of these contributory factors our because of Poland itself, which she doesn't want to leave. So I am to blame for not sending enough money over, as opposed to her realizing that she doesnt earn enough and the wages are low in Poland and competition great.

My feelings are if I send less money, she'll borrow it, from a bank etc. In a marriage, who is responsible for debts if it is in her name, as I'm not signing anything over there.
RubasznyRumcajs 5 | 463
13 Apr 2017  #21
jeez.
well, take no offence, but I'm glad I haven't maried a Polish lass.
Well, I'm glad I haven't married anyone ;)
jon357 63 | 14,122
13 Apr 2017  #22
In a marriage, who is responsible for debts if it is in her nam

There's a problem in Poland about this which has been discussed before here, when people have had problems. It is possible under some circumstances that both partners are liable for the debt.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
13 Apr 2017  #23
I think she would like to be a poor martyr, and a likely divorce would be built on her stubborness.

poor martyr? you right,i cant see why she doesnt want to be 3-rd class citizen for rest of her life and washing dishes and cleaning toilets in the UK?she must be crazy

and you seems obsessed with money.every post is about your money.kinda find it hard to believe that you earn 2k pounds and sent 6k zloty every month.

looks like you live on 700 quid a month. thats not even enough to rent studio flat.you live in tent?
OP BritboyByd 7 | 37
13 Apr 2017  #24
gregy741

Dont understand why she would have to be in a "toilet-cleaning" job, please explain. Unless you believe that's the only jobs people from other countries can get?

I earn £2k net. £1k to Poland. £400 for flat share, bills etc on top. So not much left.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
13 Apr 2017  #25
and what other than menial job she can get there?thats reality. in Poland she got friends ,family,chance of proper career,and independent life

not some flat sharing,menial work bs ,away from her family -life you offer. and you think UK is pinnacle of happiness for everyone,calling her martyr .lol

how could she work there ,having 2 small children?ahhh,you want her there,get councill flat for kids ,so you can get out of sharing flat.and put her on benefits.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
13 Apr 2017  #26
£400 for flat share

yea..thatch some serious luxury for 4 people you offer there for that money.400 month,not even enough to rent double bedroom in $htty outskirts of London,ridden with bedbugs.and you wonder,she wants to stay in Poland.she must be martyr
OP BritboyByd 7 | 37
13 Apr 2017  #27
@gregy741

So by your reckoning any pole that comes to the UK does a menial job? Doctors, vets etc just jack it in to clean toilets? It is that defeatist attitude which keeps poles in menial jobs.

In terms of maths, i am in flat share as am effectively running 2 households. So i earn £2k, even if wife got a minimum wage job at £1k a month, £3k in UK is better than 5000zl (2 average jobs in POL).
Atch 17 | 2,843
13 Apr 2017  #28
@Britboy, don't take any notice of Gregy. He's a total eejit. He's being deliberately obtuse here because he wants a row with someone. By the way he fears and hates women in equal measures so don't mind all that defending the women of Poland lark. He's an ignorant lummox and not worth your attention.God Bless :)
Harry
13 Apr 2017  #29
they tend to bring their own issues to the table

i cant see why she doesnt want to be 3-rd class citizen for rest of her life and washing dishes and cleaning toilets in the UK?she must be crazy

gregy741 4 | 1,204
13 Apr 2017  #30
So by your reckoning any pole that comes to the UK does a menial job? Doctors, vets etc just jack it in to clean toilets?

not everyone..but she has bazzilion better chances to get proper career in Poland.for many reasons.she will drastically decrease her chances of having good job and good career by going to THe UK.

am effectively running 2 households.

yea..400 a month household.i pay 170 a week for single room.not sure where you live.

He's being deliberately obtuse here because he wants a row with someone

nope..and honest straight to the point person,with always correct opinion.i know,you know that.heheh

i cant see why she doesnt want to be 3-rd class citizen for rest of her life and washing dishes and cleaning toilets in the UK?she must be crazy

precisely Harry.i did that mistake and want to warn other poles.UK is great for short term stay ,rent cheap room,work hard,save money and get back home.

living permanently there for a pole is a horror.


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