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'Battered husbands' - still a taboo subject in Poland


Ozi Dan 26 | 569
7 Oct 2010 #211
Ok, that sounds vaguely similar to the approach here in Oz, which is effectively a sum worked out on the basis of each parents gross income, then looking at the overnight time spent arrangements per annum, then crunching numbers and coming up with the figure. Likewise it can increase/decrease with income fluctuations which are taken off the previous FY Tax returns.

The difference seems to be that even if their is an equal lives with (custody) arrangement there may still be child support payable if one parent earns less than the other.

Issues of reasonable weekly expenses impacting upon a CS sum are usually raised if there is an administrative or judicial appeal/review.

ozi dan, wow, you challenge the zimfeminist lol

Why not? ;-) We've crossed swords on this issue on previous pages. He's actually a highly intelligent bloke and I enjoy the exercise but can't resist having a dig if I think I can give it some legs.
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
7 Oct 2010 #212
The difference seems to be that even if their is an equal lives with (custody) arrangement there may still be child support payable if one parent earns less than the other.

The few friends I have that did have this type of arrangement didnt have child support
made by either, but I do believe the insurance was paid by the father, only because he
carried it.. and my ex paid CS but I covered the insurance thru my employer.

it just depends .. and me and my ex made agreements on which holidays and such that
we would spend with our daughter. so yeah its basically different in all situations, but
the average numbers are not as high as what zimmy said, at least if someone is paying
that much, he must have made the judge pretty mad.. lol
Ozi Dan 26 | 569
7 Oct 2010 #213
The few friends I have that did have this type of arrangement didnt have child support
made by either, but I do believe the insurance was paid by the father, only because he
carried it.. and my ex paid CS but I covered the insurance thru my employer.

It's best to come to an agreement with your ex on child support. Insurance payments for children are theoretically covered under the principal sum of child support paid but of course extras like that can be added on top, as well as things like education costs and so on.

so yeah its basically different in all situations, but
the average numbers are not as high as what zimmy said, at least if someone is paying
that much, he must have made the judge pretty mad.. lol

Yeah, I though it was a bit high, and would be theoretically impossible here in Australia if working under the Agency's formula because last I checked the cap on the payer parent viz income is a bit over $100K per annum. What that means is if you earn right on the cap or $500 million a year it will make no difference to the calculation. This of course benefots payer parents who are rich. There could be exceptions though I'm no child support expert.

However, if parents agree to it, then the sky's the limit for the amount of CS paid.

Edit:

and me and my ex made agreements on which holidays and such that
we would spend with our daughter.

I'm so glad to hear that and I hope you remain on amicable terms - have you formalised that arrangement or is it an understanding? There's some very interesting studies out there regarding the veiled but devastating impact upon children who are subject to or witness conflict between parents who are in these types of disputes. In some cases children developed severe personality disorder, suicidal ideation, extreme defensiveness toward one parent and other very traumatic manifestations. Drug use, criminality, cyclic parental dysfunction are other legacies left by parents who expose their kids to this.

The bottom line is kids must never be exposed to parental conflict in these situations and be kept as blissfully unaware as possible of the issues between there parents.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,443
7 Oct 2010 #214
Your continuing diatribe of 'no responses to my...' is fine but you seem to have forgotten that I've done you the courtesy of responding to nearly all your genuine comments, so what you're saying is really untrue, isn't it.

er, yes:)

Dan, you give Zimmy too much credit. As much as I appreciate his effort to convince us all and some that feminists are responsible for his miserable approach to women in general, he has not made an effort to look at how much his own attitude towards women or people in general matters. It is nice to use feminists as a punching bag in his plight to claim that he is a victim, but it is only an excuse for him to avoid his own responsibility.

He has done a lot of work for the last year and have not convinced one person that feminists indeed are responsible for battered husbands.

Therefore Zimmy, there is no victory in sight for your cause. As Ozi Dan intelligently pointed out, the issue is not about winning and as Barney pointed out a long time ago, it is not about cheapening the issue of violence in relationships. It is, in my humble opinion about looking at the real cause of violence in personal relationships and those are complex and vary depending on the country including values, believes and economic circumstance and gender roles among other things. In order to analyze the problem and find the reason one needs to look at all the "partners in crime" not some ideological representation of feminist movement. As far as I am aware, feminist are against any form of force and support equality, therefore the feminist you like to bring to light in order to support your claim have been carefully selected by you in order to manipulate the reader and as you can see it is obvious to most of them.
southern 75 | 7,096
7 Oct 2010 #215
Zimmy has won clearly here because Ozi Dan has used common lawyers' methods like trying to create doubts.The point is to discard Zimmy's theory not to create doubts about it.If you don't manage to abolish his theories from the ground you have lost.
Ironside 50 | 11,056
7 Oct 2010 #216
Dan, you give Zimmy too much credit.

Hey, although I don't agree with the Zimmy's quest on PF. I must say that men are prejudiced against, it's taken for granted that women are better qulified to take care of children, or that they're entitle to a houseband's money in case of a divorce.
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
8 Oct 2010 #217
have you formalised that arrangement or is it an understanding?

we have this understanding, actually she is now graduated and in college, but when we
did go down to talk with a councelor , she looked at me and my ex and said with a surprised
look on her face, why do you two need me? LOL

so we just left and made arrangements as they happened. we just wanted her to have a
peaceful ,happy childhood. no fights.

In some cases children developed severe personality disorder, suicidal ideation, extreme defensiveness toward one parent and other very traumatic manifestations. Drug use, criminality, cyclic parental dysfunction are other legacies left by parents who expose their kids to this.

you know, I think in some cases this is true, and some not, I think I am/believe that
my parenting skills are where they should be. but it didnt stop her from trying things.
so when I did find out, when she was honest with me, I didnt yell, or throw her out
I said to her, you are my daughter and I still love you no matter what. we talked, we
discussed things and I just told her I wanted her to alway be honest. and I gave her
some information to dwell on. and left the choices up to her, shes now going to college
and just wants to move forward in life, looking for a job and I think she is on her way.

Zimmy has won clearly here because Ozi Dan has used common lawyers' methods like trying to create doubts.The point is to discard Zimmy's theory not to create doubts about it.If you don't manage to abolish his theories from the ground you have lost.

southern you only agree with him because you have prob been a scorned man as well
as for zimmys theorys, thats all they are.. theories that came from zimmy or some other
crazy hater who provides links cause he can on the internet.. its funny how they come
from some off the wall -never heard of website.

about looking at the real cause of violence in personal relationships

amen sister!! :)
southern 75 | 7,096
8 Oct 2010 #218
Then if it is all theories why do men avoid marriage now more and more?There must be some reality otherwise men would not be so unreasonable.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,443
8 Oct 2010 #219
Then if it is all theories why do men avoid marriage now more and more?

because it is easier for them to get sex without marriage
southern 75 | 7,096
8 Oct 2010 #220
Bless feminism.Just kidding.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
8 Oct 2010 #221
A woman loses her sex appeal when she becomes the opposing instead of the opposite sex.

Men lose their sex appeal when they end up like you.
southern 75 | 7,096
8 Oct 2010 #222
Brokeback mountain must be Zimmy's favorite film.This cowboy archetype is always a woman's desire.
pgtx 30 | 3,156
8 Oct 2010 #223
yeah... every woman dreams to spend her life with a gay cowboy...
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
8 Oct 2010 #224
your casual statements about you ducking down to the beach to pose which littered this thread before my appearance,

I can't help it if I'm a sex object (ok, I really can).

I see that quite a few of my more weighty contentions,

You asked proof of cultural and societal bias against men and I provided you with several examples in post #186 and in a couple of previous posts as well. You have not commented on them. That's the crux of the general discussion but you prefer to play with 'words' (typical lawyer) thus obfuscating the premise.

You, on the other hand, have no genuine experience in the matters being discussed.

The amount of false assumptions on your part are too many to count. I almost feel embarrassed for you.

when cornered with one of the many contentions I have made challenging your credibilty you choose to deflect rather than concede.

The deflections are all yours with your 'word' games instead of addressing the issue. You have no idea how distasteful your mediocre attempts at lawyering sound here.

yes, I do enjoy playing with words and definitions.

No argument there; attempting to parcel definitions until they have no meaning only humiliates you. It's such a phony tactic and it doesn't work here.

hey could be considered anecdotal because they cannot be tested.

You seem to either not know the definition of the word or are once again attempting to be relative with it. If you had really studied the hundreds of Fiebert studies you would realize that several thousand accredited individual professionals interviewing hundreds of thousands of individuals using diverse methodology (most did not know each other) is by definition not

'anecdotal'. Here you are hoisting yourself by your own petard.

As to kicking me out of your 'office', can I assume that's toilet cubicle no. 2 at the beach where you do your posing?

As usual you assume incorrectly. The beach, by the way, starts about 50 yards from my condo. My office is in the south Loop and if you're ever in Chicago I'll be happy to escort you to the toilet there. But promise to wash your hands this time.

As to the question of child custody and the law, the fact that women receive custody about 90% of the time speaks for itself.

In any event, I find it difficult to believe child support payments would be made to the tune of $20,000 per month. Is this just another story Zimmy?

It's always a pleasure instructing you. As a lawyer, it surprises me that you don't know certain basic information.

hellobeautiful.com/mommy-beautiful/hello-beautiful-staff/what-are-celebs-paying-for-child-support/

give me a real run for my money

You don't seem to be worth much money since you seem to be a mediocre lawyer who likes to play word games instead of addressing the issue I brought up. Now be specificand address the pro female benefits that women receive and men don't. If you can do that legitimately then I'll have several more for you to comment on.

the average numbers are not as high as what zimmy said,

Why do you do that? I didn't say the average amount of child support is $20,000 per month. I merely noted that some people (usually celebrities of some sort) can pay that much and my post above has a link showing several who do.

Zimmy has won clearly here because Ozi Dan has used common lawyers' methods like trying to create doubts

Well yea; playing with words the way Ozi Dan does is so low-brow that I hesitate to even comment on it but evidently I must. Words must mean something and not be so parceled

as to make them useless. That tactic reminds me of freshman college bull sessions where mushy young minds are just discovering their freedoms.

I appreciate his effort to convince us all and some that feminists are responsible for his miserable approach to women in general,

My approach to women is to give them the "equality" they claim they want and don't have.
You'd be surprised how many thinking women understand this and indeed, some of my links should have apprised you of this.

theories that came from zimmy or some other
crazy hater who provides links cause he can on the internet.

Yes indeed, providing proof from internet links is indeed a terrible thing. You need to work on your self introspection and attempt to accept facts that disagree with your 'feelings' about how things really are.

As far as I am aware, feminist are against any form of force and support equality, t

I see your problem. You don't have enough real information so you don't understand my points. Hope this helps;

feministcritics.org/blog/2009/06/08/feminists-deny-truth-on-domestic-violence-noh/

From the link: "Since the 1970s, feminists have used domestic violence as one of their edged weapons against men. They present it as a women's issue, one in which only women are victims."

I can quote lots of feminists who also either deny or minimize domestic violence against men. That has been my bone of contention; indeed, my sole purpose regards DV is to point out that men are also affected and that virtually all help in the form of shelters and money only goes to women. Women like you don't 'get it' when it comes to these issues.

if it is all theories why do men avoid marriage now more and more?

Here's what has been happening (written by one of the new wave of enlightened women).

From the link: "Nowadays, for many men, the negatives of marriage for men often outweigh the positives." I recommend reading Patrick's contribution which puts the shoe on the other foot. Only a bigoted woman cannot see the truth in this.

Brokeback mountain must be Zimmy's favorite film.

Actually, it is David Leans' "Lawrence of Arabia"(1962). Magnificently done.

Bless feminism.Just kidding.

Well, bless it for exposing the dark side of (some) women. Light disinfects although it is painful to the 'stubborn sisters' who love gabbing about their 'victimology' which they find empowering.
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
9 Oct 2010 #225
Then if it is all theories why do men avoid marriage now more and more?

one word comes to mind...

commitment to just one instead of twenty.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
9 Oct 2010 #226
Men avoiding marriage? lol

The following article is so good that I'm amazed that I hadn't written it. Lots of food for thought in todays culture. Following comments show the speed with which men in particular are growing up in this age of misandry. What Thomas Jefferson expected of his daughter is priceless.

the-spearhead.com/2010/10/08/stop-looking-for-a-wife-you-wont-find-one/
Tymoteusz 2 | 353
9 Oct 2010 #227
Young men need some fatherly advice. Here is the best I got. What say you Zimmy?

Advice to Young Men from an Old Man

It/s not copyright protected and I prefer my version including edits.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
9 Oct 2010 #228
What say you Zimmy?

A woman is more influenced by what she suspects than by what she is told.

You can always tell a well informed woman; her views are the same as yours:)
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
10 Oct 2010 #229
A woman is more influenced by what she suspects than by what she is told.

So men arent influenced by what they suspect?

what you said is a rather general statement that can apply to both gender.. yep yep yep.
FlaglessPole 4 | 669
10 Oct 2010 #230
So men arent influenced by what they suspect?

Lots of men and women are suspected to be under the influence...
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,443
10 Oct 2010 #231
now, that explains everything!!!!!!!! 9 pages of drama solved by one simple answer;)
FlaglessPole 4 | 669
10 Oct 2010 #232
9 pages of drama solved by one simple answer;)

I know, so elegant ;D
southern 75 | 7,096
10 Oct 2010 #233
What Thomas Jefferson expected of his daughter is priceless.

You are a little old fashioned.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
10 Oct 2010 #234
Patty; "So men arent influenced by what they suspect?"

Of course everyone is influenced but there are degrees of it, as in virtually everything else.

So you've never heard of womens emotions ruling them?
So you've never heard of feminists knocking mens use of logic and embracing womens 'emotional IQ, feelings, even intuition? Hmmm
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
11 Oct 2010 #235
Lots of men and women are suspected to be under the influence...

hmmmm I suspect they are.. lol

So you've never heard of womens emotions ruling them?
So you've never heard of feminists knocking mens use of logic and embracing womens 'emotional IQ, feelings, even intuition? Hmmm

zimmy, have you actually read some of the threads posted on this forum in the relationship
part of the forum?? I see a equal amount of men and women asking about why their
relationship went sour ( extremely emotional posts) some posts are angry, like the
one with the guy who said dont marry a polish girl.. and the other OH POLISH GIRL DONT
WANT TO TOUCH>> yeah, he was ruled by EMOTIONS.. please dont say that men are
without emotions cause I personally resent that for them, it would be saying that men
are cold and aloof and that is my title as a polish woman..who is AMERICAN and has
no right to be polish. lol

but seriously.. zimmy, you say you believe in the equal for both, but yet, on here , you
throw daggars at the female gender.. how do you think we are supposed to take that?
and even the guys are now seeing that its all a tunnel vision for you.. you just wont see
past your own nose.

So you've never heard of feminists knocking mens use of logic and embracing womens 'emotional IQ, feelings, even intuition? Hmmm

have you heard of chauvinist knocking womens use of logic and embracing mens emotional iq , feelings, even intuition? hmmmmmmm.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
11 Oct 2010 #236
please dont say that men are without emotions

You must have missed my post just above yours where I stated: "Of course everyone is influenced but there are degrees of it, as in virtually everything else."

seriously.. zimmy, you say you believe in the equal for both,

I merely challenge the incredible amounts of hypocrisy that manifests itself in feminist leadership which includes academia. None of my comments come close to the intense male-bashing (which I've chronicled and quoted in these various threads) by feminists - not even close.

you just wont see past your own nose.

My nose isn't that big but I realize that you still don't 'get it'. That's okay, as evidenced by male correspondence here, many people now speak openly in ways that they never have in the past. The worm is turning and many women like you don't like it. Blame your feminist sisters for that. Most women are are too stubborn (or spoiled princesses) to comprehend how much devastation feminists have caused. I suggest you pick up Warren Farrell's book, "The Myth of Male Power"( I know you won't).

So perhaps this guys blog will give you some inkling of the modern male's condition and thoughts; but it's doubtful you have an open enough mind for that.

I disagree with his "hate" which he admits to, but I have empathy with his experience which so many women cannot fathom.

-------'gone fishin' for two days, north woods here I come.
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
11 Oct 2010 #237
I merely challenge the incredible amounts of hypocrisy that manifests itself in feminist leadership which includes academia

on a polish forum?

instead of going fishing , shouldnt you be marching down main street or something?

you just blow hot air in a forum, cause I dont see any huge signs or men waving them
in the street.

if your a speaker, show us some proof of your work. show us all how much you speak
up against these so called men haters.. cause I think its just a privately driven goal.

which I've chronicled and quoted in these various threads) by feminists - not even close.

who are these feminists?
cause I just think we have regular male and female posters who have their own seperate
views on the subject and no hard core * feminists* like you think..

'gone fishin' for two days, north woods here I come.

have fun.
pgtx 30 | 3,156
11 Oct 2010 #238
if your a speaker, show us some proof of your work. show us all how much you speak
up against these so called men haters.. cause I think its just a privately driven goal.

i asked him about that already, but he's just a PC warrior on a wrong forum...
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
11 Oct 2010 #239
figures..

Well , I am sure he will prob yell at the female fish and call them feminists and the male
fish will get to drink beer and smack bellies with him.. lol
f stop 25 | 2,513
11 Oct 2010 #240
but he's just a PC warrior on a wrong forum...

Zimmy is consulting the spearhead forum..


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