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How do I find out if someone is a bigamist?


VeraCausa 1 | -
20 Feb 2017  #1
This is bit complicated so please bear with me. A male relative born in UK, married Irish woman in Ireland and lived in UK for many years. They all moved back to Ireland about 20 years ago . However this male relative moved back to UK on his own and set up home with a Polish woman - about 10 years ago. I have heard from a number of sources that he went to Poland last summer and married this Polish woman.

He is still married to his Irish wife. No divorce. I need to find out this information for family reasons. How do I go about finding this out. I know the woman's name and were she is from but that is about it.

Thanks in advance for any help and advice.
Vera
Atch 17 | 2,767
20 Feb 2017  #2
Hi Vera. Firstly there are two types of wedding in Poland, the civil wedding at a registry office and the church wedding. The civil wedding would automatically be registered on the day, the church wedding is registered later. Here's a link explaining how it's done:

migrant.info.pl/the-marriage-procedure.html

For either marriage the foreigner needs to provide a letter from his country of origin stating that he is free to marry, so if the guy did indeed 'marry' his girlfriend then he had to fake that document. He'd have to produce ID and in his case as a foreigner that would be his passport, so unless he had a fake ID which is very unlikely then he's in the records somewhere. Here are details of all the documents required.

migrant.info.pl/documents-required-for-a-marriage.html

Anyway the fact is that if he got married the wedding must have been registered. They probably married in the place where she's from, so with that information you should be able to find out fairly easily as first port of call would be the district court in that area. As presumably you don't speak Polish your best bet would be to contact a private detective agency in the UK as this kind of thing is super easy for them. They probably have contacts in similar Polish agencies or have access to Polish speakers. As it's not a complex matter it should be sorted pretty quickly so the costs wouldn't be too high.

Did they return to the UK after the wedding? If so, then she's probably linked with him in some form and is declared as his wife, on UK datatbases, eg tax, NHS, welfare benefits. An English detective agency could get that information very quickly.
mafketis 19 | 7,003
20 Feb 2017  #3
Hi Vera. Firstly there are two types of wedding in Poland, the civil wedding at a registry office and the church wedding

No. The two types of wedding are civil ceremony in a registry office versus civil ceremony in a church (where the church official does the civil marriage paperwork).

Formerly, everybody had to do the civil ceremony and most also did a church ceremony (with no legal force as church officials were not allowed to do the civil paperwork.

There's only one type of wedding that recognized in Poland, it just can be performed in different places.

Yes, that's a pedantic point, but I dislike it when people chirp about church weddings as if they were not civil in nature (to be recognized by the state).
Atch 17 | 2,767
20 Feb 2017  #4
Hi Maf, yes, the difference is the venue and of course the fact that it can take a few days for the marriage to be officially registered. I suppose in theory, if someone wanted to put on a show for family of getting married, they could slip the priest a few quid to 'lose' the paperwork! I think the correct term, if we want to be pedantic, for the church wedding is a concordat wedding in that it involves both state and church. Also I did make it clear that the church wedding is also 'registered'. :)
Lenka 2 | 1,282
20 Feb 2017  #5
Actually there are 3 types of wedding:
-cywilny- state one performed by a government official
-konkordatowy- performed by a priest uniting both religious and civil ceremony
-koscielny- performed by a priest and strictly religious. One needs permission from the local authorities (kuria)
In two first cases he would be legally married with the third type he could get theoretically married to his heart's content. Of course that would mean he cannot describe himself as married to UK government as it wouldn't be recognised. However if they cared about religion or wanted to satisfy their families they could have done that. Still a wedding and no bigamy
Atch 17 | 2,767
20 Feb 2017  #6
-koscielny- performed by a priest and strictly religious.

Thanks Lenka. I didn't know that one still existed. It crossed my mind that the wedding might just be a church thing to appease her family so that she'd be married in the eyes of God but then I thought, oh don't they all have to be registered nowadays. However the only way the OP will know one way or another is if she makes enquiries.
mafketis 19 | 7,003
20 Feb 2017  #7
for the church wedding is a concordat wedding in that it involves both state and church

But only the state part has any legal standing.
Lenka 2 | 1,282
20 Feb 2017  #8
Thanks Lenka. I didn't know that one still existed.

They are usually performed if a couple already took civil wedding. Normal story goes like that: a couple takes civil wedding because of taxes, kids etc but wait with the church one till they have money for nice ceremony(as church gives that atmosphere and surrounding ) and big party. However it's possible to just take church one. From what I read foreigners go for that option to avoid formalities with getting married and getting divorced internationally.
mafketis 19 | 7,003
20 Feb 2017  #9
a couple takes civil wedding because of taxes, kids etc but wait with the church one till they have money for nice ceremony

Wasn't that a common practice in late commie and early post-commie times? I seem to recall a number of couples that got a civil wedding and then did the church thing weeks (or months) later...
terri 1 | 1,617
20 Feb 2017  #10
To my mind, his Irish wife should go to the Police and state what she believes has happened. The Irish Police would then contact the English Police and the man would be unmasked. Obviously she needs details which will enable the Police to do their job.
Lenka 2 | 1,282
21 Feb 2017  #11
Wasn't that a common practice in late commie and early post-commie times?

In communist times you had to have two weddings as church one didn't count. Then we signed concordat and now one can have only one. Still many ppl choose to separate them. Usually it's just the money issue. A party after wedding can be very expensive so couples wait.

What might interest you is that there is growing demand for a nice 'non religious' ceremony. Because of that government officials can now marry you in the place of your choosing for certain fee. Also there is a market of 'slub humanistyczny' which is secular but still ceremonial. I never been to one but I saw such funeral and I must say it was much more personal than the church one.
terri 1 | 1,617
21 Feb 2017  #12
As far as I know 'bigamy' is still punishable in law. If a person who is legally married, marries another legally - they are guilty of bigamy. The first wife should create a stink about it. Best people are the Police. Even if you find out that he has married - it is the Police who have to bring a case against him. You can gather sufficient evidence to prove bigamy - but he could end up in prison.
Atch 17 | 2,767
21 Feb 2017  #13
Here's an interesting case of bigamy involving a Latvian woman who married bigamously in Ireland - 100 euro fine and was given six months to pay it - not too bad considering the offence carries a maximum sentence of seven years.

thejournal.ie/bigamy-limerick-court-3127863-Dec2016

I presume that the man mentioned by the OP would have to be prosecuted in Poland as that's where the alleged offence took place.
Towarzysz
16 Apr 2017  #14
Sounds more like you want to destroy his life or something.

If he's not a close relative, why do you care? Are you being vindictive?

Maybe he just separated one wife and married another-divorce can take upto 4 years in Ireland you know.

Seriously if this Irish woman is not your sister/daughter and the man is not your brother/son or something, why get involved?
Towarzysz
16 Apr 2017  #15
@terri

You sound like another vindictive type.

Like the type of woman looking out the window to see if a single unemployed parent is sleeping with someone.
Bieganski 17 | 901
16 Apr 2017  #16
Here's an interesting case of bigamy involving a...woman...100 euro fine and was given six months to pay it - not too bad considering the offence carries a maximum sentence of seven years.

LOL!

You seriously think in this day and age any court anywhere in the West would have thrown the book at her? Ha ha ha ha ha! Too funny.

Please. Why did they even bother subjecting her to the law at all? I'm surprised the court didn't offer her an apology for inconveniencing her.

Floozy behavior is so commonplace now that she could never be shamed by society for committing bigamy.

But she deliberately lied three times on three separate forms falsely claiming she was single and free to marry. The pathetic fee serves as no penalty and no deterrent for this obvious sham marriage to a second Pakistani migrant husband (whom surprise, surprise she subsequently became estranged from) and only confirms the gynocentrism of the Western legal system.

I presume that the man mentioned by the OP would have to be prosecuted in Poland

No presumptions. It would be guaranteed the man would have been prosecuted and punished to the fullest extent of the law anywhere in the West.
jon357 63 | 14,110
16 Apr 2017  #17
Here's an interesting case of bigamy involving a Latvian woman who married bigamously in Ireland - 100 euro fine and was given six months to pay it

Courts tend to treat each case on its own merits regarding family and marital issues. It looks like there are some extenuating circumstances, no intention to cause harm and the lady in question cooperated fully.
Towarzysz
16 Apr 2017  #18
If anyone actually believes in partners for life in this day and age they are either a fool, very lucky, or very religious.

20 years ago myself, my older sister and brother would all have been married by now if we lived at home.

Of course with the way society is going a lot more people tend to be single for longer, divorce more easily, cheat more readily, in fact all of that is so normal now, even it seems to some extent re. divorce and partner swapping(if not being single/cheating) in Poland, so who can say this should really be an offence.

She must be very old school contraception wise to have that many kids you might think but in some EU countries 4 or 5 kids is still the norm.

Getting married for the sake of getting married is just as stupid as anything else though and it happens in traditional countries a lot, including in Poland. Lots of unhappy people then divorce and wonder why they are unhappy. It's cos they got married too young and to the wrong person/first one who came along.

A 22 year old Polish friend of mine is getting married to a girl he met in school 3 years ago. I think he's mad and it's sure to end in tears. I am 25 and I could not imagine my 22 year old self a few years ago being ready for marriage and most 22 year-olds I have ever known are wallies or very young mentally still and only got married due to family pressure/pregnancy.

No doubt her first marriage was very young, I'd say.
Fatherstolen123
18 May 2019  #19
My wife married me while still married to two other people. I found out after ten year into the marriage when her first child located her father. the second child found her after twenty one years. Finally she got me out of the house I got for us. She is unstable and had the lasdt child taken by the state. She is far from being stupid. Now she has my only child. What can I do?
Joker 1 | 913
19 May 2019  #20
I feel bad about your misfortune and would certainly seek out an attorney.

She sounds stupid to me, if she had her kid taken away from her.


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