Struggling young Polish couple - try to solve their problem

it depends how much they feel like waiting till someone else takes a shower in their bathroom every morning, using the same toilet as two other strangers, or overhearing each other's private conversations (or other activities) every day :)

Live somewhere cheap.

You can pick up a flat in Poznan for less than 100,000 - I saw one property available in the north side of the city for 70k, and it was clear that the seller would negotiate. Granted, it was in a cellar, with no windows - but a property is a property.

i'm not against the idea of a self build. the loans i mentioned would naturally be smaller so i see it as a positive way to go.


there are some things people think they need a professional for and some things that only a certified person can do.

the majority of young professionals have no clue about tools unfortunately and are afraid to try.

the self build was popular twenty years ago, not so much now.

i tip my hat to teflcat for having the balls to go for it.

How about starting a business on the side? I know ZUS is a deterrent but at least it's lower for the first couple of years. There are lots of different businesses which don't require heavy investment to start. Also, they could move to a different town, city, or even village in Poland and so get either better jobs, lower rent, or both. Some jobs come with a company flat - e.g. teaching in rural areas often does. Etc. Have they tried anything at all so far?

I hear what you're saying.
LOL, I have to admit, I'd study to be a certified carpenter myself, if the only other option was to live with my in-laws...

i don't know that much. i remember him mentioning something about opening their own business, i think it was a travel agency (?), but nothing so far.

that's pretty neat. if they find a niche and they can make their service unique enough, they should be able to make good money.

do they live in a city?

And that's the problem. Opening a travel agency when you have no cash is nothing more than a dream. IMHO it will never happen. Why can't people ever think of anything cheap and cheerful, a service that's easy to provide, cheap to perform, and sought after? I would start with something as simple as providing shopping delivery services in my neighbourhood, maybe a dog-walking service, or something along those lines. Something you can start right away, modestly priced, yet fulfilling a need nobody realised they had ;-)

My cousins in Poland same story, one (masters in engineering degree) found a good paying job the kind he went to school for. Second one left Poland with his wife and lives and works in Paris,France. The third (supposedly) can't find anything and lives with his parents. Unless one has a daddy with his own business or family member or good friend in a large company it's hard to find decent work.

it is pretty cool, but the problem is there are many travel agencies and they do not do all that good...


yes, Krakow

when i talk with my family and friends, i hear about those kind of problems among young Poles all the time, and I can't understand why it's that bad, what they do wrong and how to turn the things around...


they have some cash, but they want to put it as a down payment for an apt...

It's about 220zl a month for the first two years if you're already working (and paying ZUS) in another job. Quite reasonable, don't you think?


Because a lot of those services involve physical effort.

Heck, you don't even need to start a business formally - for something like dog walking, people would be happy just to pay in cash.


I know several people who have good work despite their parents not being well connected. But they put in the work - one girl is studying for the English accountancy exams in her spare time, for instance. She's now sitting on a 5500zl brutto salary as a junior specialist for one of the Big 4 firms - but her workload is horrific.

Likewise, I know people earning 2500zl brutto - but they all have one thing in common - they do their set hours and not a thing more in their spare time.

My aunt told me that Huta Stalowa Wola where my father worked, which was bought by the Chinese is desperate for people who speak both fluent Polish and English. Supposedly many other companies as well, English is important nowadays to get a good job, even in ones own country. 440 million Chinese know English, on what level i can't tell you.

oh, that's awesome!

ok, here's a few pretty good travel-related ideas - and you don't need a lot of money to start:

some time ago we happened to be in Philly, and we went on a very interesting walking tour that was historical, but not the stuffy official boring lecture - it was a kinda quirky, some little-known amusing stuff about Ben Franklin, some very funny anecdotes about Betsy Ross, it was an hour, a whole bunch of people showed up and everyone paid like $25 or so. very entertaining.

there's a bunch of those tours in each big city here, which you probably know, some are themed (like "ghost" tours, etc.)

some other time we went on a bus tour (actually, it was more like a van, with TV screens for everyone) through the places where they filmed well-known movies in Philly - the guide would talk about the movies, make it funny and entertaining, they'd show clips from Rocky, Treasure Hunt, Philadelphia, all bunch of movies, hour and a half, about 20 people, I can't remember how much it was but much more than would cover the gas, the driver's wage, the vehicle, etc.

then we went to Scottsdale, a few weeks ago, they had a food tour - the woman would take a bunch of people, I think it was 20 or so, on a walking tour through a number of restaurants in the Old Town, we would sample some food and wine (and I mean, sample, a few bites in each place), she made money, we had fun, the restaurants would showcase their food so people would come back for a real meal. I forgot how much we paid, but the woman was saying she was running the business pretty much by herself, making a few tours every week, pretty much paid a full-time wage for a few hours of work a week.

tourists are a good source of money, Krakow is a great city, people would pay a local to show them around, point them to the right restaurants, etc. Or, they can do more of a concierge-type of business - make restaurant reservations, scope organized tours, help foreigners with getting train tickets, or whatever a person not from Poland would find difficult when visiting. minimal initial investment, decent profit if you know how to get the word out and make the experience entertaining.

delphiandomine wrote:


so is a Tee Pee. mother of god, are you serious? come on, Delph.

delphiandomine wrote:


plenty of truth in this but a lot of the time, i see failure coming from people that choose course studies in poland that simply make no sense. if you are going to go to college for 5 years so that you can teach in a little public school in your hometown of 30,000, get used to 1400 netto a month, it's as simple as that. want to get a Phd in Polish??? go ahead, just accept the consequences. the world isn't exactly starving for people that know Polish really really really well.

for every pole, they should learn a 2nd language and learn it damn good. secondly, they gotta learn to eliminate dead end degrees. don't do either of those, well, you're probably going to be.....what was it....27 years old, living with mom and pop, unable to get a loan for a flat.

all i'm saying is, often times it's not lack of effort, just bad planning.

ItsAllAboutMe wrote:


very, very good. this is very similar to what I had in mind after a couple years in Wroclaw. right on.

If both of them earned an extra 20 PLN per day (for some small local service they would provide), they would have an extra 800 PLN at the end of the month. And I'm not counting weekends. Sadly, most people scoff at the extra 20 per day and want to have it all without lifting a finger.

The way i see things.

To make financial waves in this world and to be a success in a monetary fashion you need one or preferably more of the following:

1. to be born into a country that has prospects
2. to have parents that are financially successful
3. distorted values - to have drive and ambition in a monetary fashion
4. education within a profitable industry
5. be attractive looking (especially if female)
6. be willing to sell your soul
7. have a good for me but fcuk everybody else attitude
8. be brainwashed by your society
9. understand the fundamentals of the monetary game (an eye for profit)

Theres obviously a few more but you get the picture, have i missed anything?

I mean Doctors dont become Doctors anymore to help people they become Doctors because its a well paid job.

10. know the right people.

Indeed, especially in Poland.

All righty then im off to the pub. YAY

So when they have more experience, they can get pay rises and then move on.

They can get another job, rent or work abroad as suggested.

As for getting a mortgage, I think it's a terrible idea for now, their jobs do not pay enough, the banks don't think they can repay the loans, so time to realise you should not buy if you can't afford it.

All this having been said, this being an internet forum and a hypothetical (right?), I will do a calculation:


That is low, is it gross or net?
(I will assume net because of the amount) so 4500 Brutto.

They can get a loan of 300 451,61 plus their 20% down payment, that's 360 451,61. (Open finance calculator)
open.pl/calc/kalkulator-kwoty-kredytu.html

You can buy a reasonably sized house out of the city for that, or a highish end apartment in the centre.
This loan is over 36 years but is not meant like that, it is only meant to get their foot in the door of the property ladder.

No doubt people think they can just move into the Wawel castle as soon as they are finished Uni, that's just not going to happen.

Pgtx, budget/tighten belts. I'm sorry but why shouldn't that be the case when most Africans live in poverty? If a couple is that adept at living then they will find their own ways. As many other posters have commented, Poles have to reject the decadence of Western life and play to their strengths. Poles are rugged people and can survive on much less than most Westerners could even imagine.

Kill'em and inherit the house!

i heard that some young people wait for grandparents to die so they can get an apt after them...

Why wait, Just tell'em you're an atheist, heart attack, natural causes, noone will ever know.

Nicely said. Problem lays with Poland not being able to provide the worry free got enough money life they want. They hear on the news that Poland is developing, that we're almost there and don't want those old days of hardship to come back. Western is not always best, I couldn't imagine myself paying off a house not being sure I'll have a job in the years to come, or living on credit cards or leasing some car that with never be mine.

You should buy the house you can afford to pay off of your unemployment. Just in case. You can sleep better because you have no worries.


You should never do that anyway.


Leasing is the most stupid and wasteful way to have a car. Unless your company pays for it.


We can always count on Seanus to come up with the most useless comments.

Well said, Penn! Ireland is a cautionary tale for them. Capital and wealth is often an illusion. Sometimes easy to get but very hard to maintain/keep. I'll never be truly rich as a teacher but I know how to save and set aside for a rainy day (for the black hour as they say in Polish).

Some people are born to be certain things and knowing who you are and enjoying that reality is often much more precious than living the disgruntled life of a Westerner who seeks comfort in the latest technological gimmick or to outstrip his neighbour. Poles, stick to your rugged ways, dig your heels in and never lose sight of the priorities that made you who you are!

Oh, Bzib, you regard my comments as useless? May I recommend glasses? Be thankful for what you've got was my message. How dare you offend Africans. Go and live there and see how they cope.

I think the main thing is that it is socially expectable to live with your parents and grandparents here.
For a young educated couple living in Krakow, there are many options, as have been provided.
I think it's the comfort zone that they are afraid of leaving, they have no excuse if they are both working but will complain anyway.

I recently let out a place, on behalf of a friend, to a young couple in Krakow. They were in exactly this position and told me the truth (but at least jokingly) that they had to get away from their parents.

800 PLN per month (including bills 1050).

But why pay your own way when you can live with Mummy and Daddy?

If it's true that you're Scottish, you were (since you live in Poland now) a part of "the decadence of Western life", lol

Some choose not to follow set paths, guesswho. I've never been one for the high life and many Poles would do well to realise their financial constraints too.