The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / Life  % width posts: 80

Vandalism in Poland: Has it always been this way?


pawian 176 | 13,997
2 Jan 2021 #31
But you didn't react

I did, but in other fora.

now you would have a major cleanup expense

Yes, correct. But you still have a house in which you can live.

That bench can be placed back or replaced easily

Not so easily. You don`t know those beaurocrats. They need to organise a competitive bidding first. Getting real results, ie. new benches, will take months. Where should the elderly sit during that time????
Novichok 1 | 958
2 Jan 2021 #32
Bottom line question: Which would you rather see in your town, all park benches stolen and restored or all building graffitied and cleaned up?
With you paying part of the bill.
pawian 176 | 13,997
2 Jan 2021 #33
all park benches stolen and restored or all building graffitied and cleaned up?

The best choice is to invest in security cameras in places threatened by vandals` activity. It is a long term investment which would save a lot of expenses on renovation.
Novichok 1 | 958
2 Jan 2021 #34
The best choice is to invest in security cameras

No!!!. A good camera is expensive. A cane is not. Poland could even borrow a dozen of them from Singapore for free.
pawian 176 | 13,997
2 Jan 2021 #35
A good camera is expensive. A cane is not.

Yes, but you need to have the culprit to be able to use the cane at all. Cameras will help you with that.
Novichok 1 | 958
3 Jan 2021 #36
OK, finally we have a plan. Why hasn't it been implemented so far? If Poland is too poor to buy canes, I will supply them for free.
pawian 176 | 13,997
3 Jan 2021 #37
Because cane chastising is practised in Asia, not in Europe or the USA. I hope you realise Poland is a European country. :)
Novichok 1 | 958
3 Jan 2021 #38
Because cane chastising is practised in Asia, not in Europe or the USA.

Only on those who don't mind it. I would find caning too painful so I don't vandalize. See, how simple things can be when one thinks things through? Amazing, isn't it?

Plus, the beauty of such "harsh" deterrents is that they are not used! There are no takers! Just ask Michael Fay if he would do it again in Singapore.
pawian 176 | 13,997
3 Jan 2021 #39
I would find caning too painful so I don't vandalize

I don`t vandalise either - not for fear of caning or other penalties but because it is wrong and harms people and the environment..

when one thinks things through?

Yes, but it applies to people with imagination and ability to predict the results of their actions. Most vandals are excluded from that group so don`t expect them to think.

Just ask Michael Fay if he would do it again

Probably not. But I don`t think the fear of pain would deter potential vandals who break the law when drunk.
Novichok 1 | 958
3 Jan 2021 #40
Probably not.

Probably? You are kidding... I guarantee it.

Yes, but it applies to people with imagination and the ability to predict the results of their action

Caning speeds up the process of developing the ability to predict the results. Sending them to prison is like giving them an advanced course on how to improve their skills as criminals. And it costs 40 grand a year in the US. In Europe, it's a lot more considering the amenities in your lux resorts you call prisons. Caning is like outpatient treatment and costs zero. Next Monday he is good to go and resume a productive life where he left off Friday night. The experience must be unforgetable.

I don`t vandalize either - not for fear of caning or other penalties

Penal systems are not designed for people like you. It's for those who refuse to read the memo.
Vandalizing people aka as spousal abuse is the best example of how caning would work so very well as opposed to keeping the sob in prison while his wife struggles financially.

the fear of pain would deter potential vandals who break the law when drunk.

In your opinion, is being intoxicated while committing a crime a mitigating or aggravating condition?
pawian 176 | 13,997
3 Jan 2021 #41
Probably?I guarantee it.

Nope, you can`t quarantee anything. Make an ex offender drink 0.5 litre bottle of vodka and you will see your guarantee in action. :):)

In your opinion

It depends. In most cases neutral. But while driving it is surely aggravating.

The experience must be unforgetable.

Yes, but I doubt it really deters all potential offenders. Corporal punishments were widely applied in past times, e..g, in the MA and later, until late 19th century. Did they deter anybody? Hardly. My fav book as a child, Adventures of Tom Saywer, clearly shows that certain people don`t care about the physical punishment and continue acting against the law - Tom was intent on fooling around and keeping on naughty attitude despite heavy caning by his teachers.
Novichok 1 | 958
3 Jan 2021 #42
Did they deter anybody? Hardly.

You are wrong. Talk to the inmates who got the hell beaten out of them by other inmates. In fact, prison rules are enforced by the inmates, not the guards. So it works.
pawian 176 | 13,997
3 Jan 2021 #43
Talk to the inmates

Now you are mixing ideas. I thought we were talking about corporal punishment administered by the state according to the country`s law. It never involves beating the hell out of sb.
Novichok 1 | 958
3 Jan 2021 #44
I am just showing that it works. Who is doing the beating is irrelevant.
Spanking - a procedure in use since the beginning of time - is just another example of how to speed up the learning process that the stove is hot as an effective substitute for a lecture on physics, chemistry, medicine, and that mommy is right and in charge.
pawian 176 | 13,997
3 Jan 2021 #45
I am just showing that it works.

Unfortunately, you didn`t show anything. You told me to ask an inmate who was beaten in prison. Sorry, I don`t know any. That is why this is still your private opinion which doesn`t really convince us.

to speed up the learning process that the stove is hot as an effective substitute

Amazing you are using the same example as our psychology teacher at uni class decades ago. I still remember her words about the hot cooker.
Novichok 1 | 958
3 Jan 2021 #46
Sorry, I don`t know any.

I don't play at that level. I am actually surprised you would use that kind of childish argument.
You don't know anybody who was executed in Katyn or died during the Warsaw Uprising, either, but that little detail didn't stop you from posting on those subjects with the conviction and the passion they deserve.

No, I am not changing the subject. Those were examples.
pawian 176 | 13,997
3 Jan 2021 #47
I don't play at that level.

No, you don`t play at my level - but much below - under the belt - all the time. hahaha I don`t mind - I will deal with you anyway coz I have put special protection in my underwear. hahahahaha

You don't know anybody who was executed in Katyn

Correct. But I read everything what historians said about it. While you told me to ask a beaten inmate and left me on my own.

Do you understand now why your another comparison is illogical, like all other before it????

Those were examples.

Far from the subject matter and failed. Sorry.
Novichok 1 | 958
3 Jan 2021 #48
While you told me to ask a beaten inmate and left me on my own.

Millions of words were spoken and written about violence in prisons, but you still insist on talking to one of them. Good move.
pawian 176 | 13,997
3 Jan 2021 #49
Who is doing the beating is irrelevant.

Another failed comparison. Don`t compare the state administered penalty of caning which is irreversible when the court rules so, with violence in prison which may affect a convict, but also they might avoid it. Are all convicts beaten in prisons???

Good move.

Yes, it is the only rational move while you are trying to twist everything around. I am trying to stick to some basic logic which you constantly wish to abolish.

Millions of words were spoken and written about violence in prison

And? We were talking about the deterrential effect of physical punishments on offenders. You told me to ask inmates. I don`t know any as well as I don`t remember reading about such an effect in diaries or reports about prison life.

If you could show us some sources presenting such an effect - in personal stories or literature. I would like to believe you, really, but I must see evidence first. Bare words are not enough.
Novichok 1 | 958
3 Jan 2021 #50
Are all convicts beaten in prisons???

Not all. So?

You told me to ask inmates.

That was a figure of speech. Like a rhetorical question, except not a question.
Pretending that the threat of violence is not a deterrent is beneath any reasonable conversation between adults. If you have to prove THAT to you as a prerequisite, my suggestion is that you reserve this debating technique for the children in your school. I am sure you can find them very receptive to it in grade 1.

In the adult world, certain things are what we call axiomatic and do not require proof. Otherwise, all civilized life would come to a screeching halt.
pawian 176 | 13,997
3 Jan 2021 #51
Not all. So?

So I told you. Did you miss it? The state administered penalty of caning is unavoidable while violence in prison not necessarily.

That was a figure of speech.

Was or wasn`t. You tend to be quite verbatim when you use your comparisons so I prefered to take your words at face value.

Pretending that the threat of violence is not a deterrent

If it was such a deterrent, people would behave like angels and hardly nobody would commit crimes and go to prison. But it doesn`t work this way - prisons in the US or Poland are packed. Why? Probaby those convicts didn`t contact you and don`t realise they should feel deterred by potential violence from inmates. hahaha

this debating technique for the children

Funny that you accuse me of such techniques while you are exploiting kindergarten tricks yourself all the time.

In the adult world, certain things are what we call axiomatic

Yes, certain. But not all. I have just shown it to you and if you reject those logical explanations above, you prove you are unreasonable. Simple.

Well??? :):):
Lenka 3 | 2,354
3 Jan 2021 #52
If punishment was all it took there would be no crime.

Btw, it always baffeled me why would you beat your kid instead of blocking access to the stove or electrical socket ?
Novichok 1 | 958
3 Jan 2021 #53
If punishment was all it took there would be no crime.

The modern-day punishment punishes society twice. It's expensive and turns criminals into better criminals when they graduate. Physical pain or public humiliation would be a lot more effective. Take an average john. He would rather spend a month in jail than have his name and picture in the local paper. Add to this six whacks and he will never do it again.

Probaby those convicts didn`t contact you and don`t realize they should feel deterred by potential violence from inmates.

They don't deter because, as I just explained, they are just crime factories. Why? Because Western prisons are just long-term, free-room-and-board motels with med benefits. You can even demand a sex-change operation. All for free on my dime. Some deterrent.
Lenka 3 | 2,354
3 Jan 2021 #54
Physical pain or public humiliation would be a lot more effective.

We had that and still there was crime. It's not some new idea but an old one that didn't work that well
Novichok 1 | 958
3 Jan 2021 #55
We had that and still there was crime.

You are confusing deterrence with the pecking order. Once inside, it's the gangs and the gang top who sets the rules and enforces them. A new prisoner is well advised to belong to one of them and to obey. Prison guards are his last problem.

Google Dahmer. It was the prisoners who delivered justice to him, not the system or the guards.
Paulina 10 | 1,626
3 Jan 2021 #56
Those colourful benches were a citizens' project approved by the city - in the same way a parking lot near my block of flats got renovated (enough people had to sign the petition).

Pawian, Kielce is a city, not a town (even if it's provincial ;)). Btw, what kind of bad reputation Kielce is being haunted by? (I won't get offended, I'm just curious)
Novichok 1 | 958
3 Jan 2021 #57
Those colourful benches were a citizens' project approved by the city

What was the idea behind the project? Who were these citizens? Random people or an organization?

As far as fear of violence as deterrence...This is how it works. A woman is abused by her husband. When the cops come over, he claims he has anger issues.

Now, place her 250-lb weight lifting wrestler brother next to the hubby. Poof, his desire to act on his anger is gone just like that. Amazing how it works.

The difference between this scenario and the cops looking for a graffiti vandal is that the punishment is swift and assured. With the vandals, it's neither because our societies are now matriarchal and full of that "they are just kids" crap. They need hugs, not caning. Sure
pawian 176 | 13,997
3 Jan 2021 #58
Pawian, Kielce is a city, not a town

Yes, I know, it was my mistake but I said city earlier in post 10.

what Kielce is being haunted by?

Are you from Kielce? Then let`s forget it, that was a typo. I withdraw all my words. In fact, I said nothing, null, zero, blank. Besides, I suffer from dementia. And it wasn`t me, aliens took control of me after I got vaccinated. Really. Now I am going to join johhny in his hole. Hey, johhny, move and make some room for a buddy! hahahaha
Novichok 1 | 958
3 Jan 2021 #59
Yes, I know, it was my mistake but I said city earlier in post 10.

You pleaded guilty too soon. "Town" is used in reference to bigger objects than a dot on the map like Kielce. How about "my kind of town Chicago is".

Also, "downtown", not downcity.
pawian 176 | 13,997
3 Jan 2021 #60
"Town" is used in reference to bigger objects

Maybe in American English. The place of the size of Kielce is a city in Poland .:)

my kind of town Chicago is"

That`s a romantic/poetic/emotional usage, while I wasn`t emotional about Kielce but about those cute benches.

Also, "downtown", not downcity.

That originated from the times when every city before it became a city was a town first. And the phrase got stuck in the language.

Enough about towns/cities.

Home / Life / Vandalism in Poland: Has it always been this way?
Discussion is closed.