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Was Legionella in Poland a biological weapon attack?


Alien 20 | 4,998
25 Aug 2023 #1
There are questions whether Legionella in Poland was a biological weapon attack. Is it possible?
jon357 74 | 22,054
25 Aug 2023 #2
It seems unlikely.

Legionella outbreaks are very common, especially during the right weather for it.
jon357 74 | 22,054
25 Aug 2023 #3
Plus, it doesn't pass from person to person anyway.

Someone is more likely to get it in a temporary garden swimming pool, ice from an ice making machine (and how often are those cleaned?) or from poorly maintained air conditioning systems, and of course this is the time of year when a/c systems are operating.

Swimming in lakes or rivers can also be a cause, specially in warm weather.

I'm surprised there's not more legionella given the growing summer temperatures in Europe and for sure, if anyone wanted to use biological warfare, they'd use a different and more effective bacteria.
OP Alien 20 | 4,998
25 Aug 2023 #4
they'd use a different and more effective bacteria.

If they carried out an attack with smallpox, everyone would know right away that it was an attack. And so no one will guess and they will disorganize a little our life in the attacked country.
jon357 74 | 22,054
25 Aug 2023 #5
And so no one will guess

That's true, however the disruption is small and there are also outbreaks in Liverpool, Dorset and Las Vegas. It's the worst time of year for it, especially with the current heatwave.

If I was working for a malign state actor (i.e.r*SSia) I'd probably go with Salmonella or even better, clostridium.
jon357 74 | 22,054
25 Aug 2023 #6
Is it possible?

I just read that this is being investigated. Hopefully it isn't anything suspicious however water hygiene is something w need to be careful about as temperatures rise and air conditioning is perhaps overused anyway.

This article from today's newspaper is a balanced one.
telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/08/25/poland-legionnaires-disease-outbreak-sabotage-investigation/
Cargo pants 3 | 1,510
25 Aug 2023 #7
it doesn't pass from person to person

So its not like AIDs?
OP Alien 20 | 4,998
25 Aug 2023 #8
not like AIDs

No, it kills much faster.
Bobko 25 | 2,055
25 Aug 2023 #9
So its not like AIDs?

Having AIDS is a great way to get killed by Legionnaire's Disease. Most people are totally unaffected by it, but those with a suppressed immune system get absolutely wrecked.

There is no vaccine for it.

Fun fact: it's name has nothing to do with the Roman Empire, but instead the "American Legion" organization. One of its branches had a mass outbreak amongst its members.
Cargo pants 3 | 1,510
25 Aug 2023 #10
I just got a alert email from the consul that says:
The U.S. Consulate General in Krakow, Poland, is following reports of several cases of illness caused by Legionella pneumophila bacteria, also known as legionellosis or "Legionnaire's disease," in the Rzeszow area. The majority of people who have become ill are the elderly and those suffering from chronic illness or immune suppression.

Public health authorities are conducting an urgent epidemiological investigation into the source of the outbreak. Immediate control measures include temporary shutdown of fountains, public water sprays, and other water sources. Authorities are working closely with building managers and local institutions to put prevention and control measures in place. A full disinfection of the municipal water supply in Rzeszow and surrounding areas is scheduled for August 27 from 5:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m.

Legionellosis, or Legionnaires' disease, is a serious type of pneumonia (lung infection) caused by Legionella bacteria. People can get sick when they breathe in small droplets of water or accidently swallow water containing Legionella into the lungs. Legionella is not transmitted by food and is not dangerous when it enters the digestive system, such as through drinking water. Legionella bacteria is not spread from person to person except in very rare cases. More information is available at gov.pl/web/wsse-rzeszow.
OP Alien 20 | 4,998
25 Aug 2023 #11
U.S. Consulate General in Krakow,

So Americans take it very seriously.
jon357 74 | 22,054
26 Aug 2023 #12
A quick thing about Legionella which could be a specific risk in Poland Many people have a dzialka in the countryside for weekends. If you do, and the dzialka has been empty all week, run all the taps when you go there, especially the shower.

It's the same if you've been away on holiday. When you get home, run the taps, especially the shower. There are a few nasties (not just legionella) that can incubate while sitting in pipes in warm weather.
OP Alien 20 | 4,998
26 Aug 2023 #13
I heard that you need to heat the water to at least 70 ° C. It killed Legionella.
Bobko 25 | 2,055
27 Aug 2023 #14
As mentioned, Legionella does not affect most healthy people. I just Googled it, and less than 1% of people exposed to it, become sick.

Those most at risk are the very old, and those that are already sick.

This seems like a strange choice of a biological weapon. No?

If I were in charge of Russian biological warfare in Poland - I would use conjuctivitis, also know as pink eye. We send a group of say... 1,000 Russians disguised as political refugees. Each will be tasked with farting on the pillows of their Polish host families while they are away at work. Since "pink eye" spreads like wildfire, 1,000 such cells could in rapid order collapse Polish society.



OP Alien 20 | 4,998
27 Aug 2023 #15
would use conjuctivitis,

The idea is so-so because most Poles have already red eyes because of constantly wiping with surprise what the russians have made of themselves in the last years.
OP Alien 20 | 4,998
28 Oct 2023 #16
Now there will be PiS voters who will rub their eyes in disbelief after their favorite party loses power.
But back to Legionella, that's why I changed the seaside heating system from a boiler to a flow system.
OP Alien 20 | 4,998
2 Apr 2024 #17
I don't know what happened with Legionella, but now there are reports of Havanna Syndrome again. Russians using acoustic weapons may be behind it. Maybe yes, maybe no.


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