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How are electric cars doing in Poland?


johnny reb 27 | 4,680
11 Sep 2020 #241
I think no average customer will ever agree to pay 20-30 K just for a battery and replace it every 8-10 years.

So you would rather put 20 gallons of gas in your car per week times 52 week a year equals 1040 gallons per year times 10 year equals 10400 at say $4 per gallon equals $42k for gas in ten years versa $30k for a battery in ten years.

The self driving thing is decades away.

It's already here with even self driving semi trucks.
Tesla will have self driving cars on the roads this summer.
Tesla chief Elon Musk announced that the company's Model S sedan and Model X SUV will have self driving features within six months.
The Tesla cars will be able to drive themselves on highways and navigate to the user when summoned.
cms neuf - | 1,755
12 Sep 2020 #242
No - I'm not talking about assisted driving, but real self drive cars. That needs lots of investment in roads, working out how to deal with the road signs and the weather, new laws, dealing with some powerful unions and lobbyists.

For Tesla I think the first thing to achieve is battery life that gives them a range that allows a full days holiday or business driving. I would definitely consider one if I could drive it to Warsaw and back.
Vlad1234 16 | 716
12 Sep 2020 #243
So you would rather put 20 gallons of gas in your car per week

Is this your "Hummer" fuel consumption or where is it from? I think plug-in hybrids will be optimal in 10-20 years. Hopefully with 100 kg battery which costs 5-10 K a driver would be able to drive 150-200 km on electricity which means cutting fuel consumption around 20 times. And have no worries about the range, speed of charging and power plant outages. What else does a normal driver need?

$4 per gallon equals $42k for gas in ten years

An average American spends around $1400 a year on gasoline, so it closer to 14000 in ten years. But this number includes a large vehicles.
fool.com/investing/2017/01/14/heres-how-much-gasoline-the-average-american-consu.aspx
johnny reb 27 | 4,680
12 Sep 2020 #244
I'm not talking about assisted driving, but real self drive cars.

So am I, cms, Google self driving Tesla.
The technology is here.
johnny reb 27 | 4,680
12 Sep 2020 #245
Is this your "Hummer" fuel consumption or where is it from?

Is a tank of gas a week uncommon where you live ? (20 gallons)
Your opinion with the words you use like, I think - Hopefully - is only wishful thinking to argue.
The technology is here my friend.

Hopefully with 100 kg battery would be able to drive 150-200 km on electricity

The Tesla Model S is an all electric sedan.
As of last year, the Model S Long Range has an EPA range of 373 miles (600 km), which is higher than any other battery electric car.

An average American spends around $1400 a year on gasoline,

I have no idea where you came up with that figure but it is not even close to the truth.
Lets word it like this, "How much does an average car owner spend for gas per year at $4 per gallon ?"
cms neuf - | 1,755
12 Sep 2020 #246
That is autopilot - it's not self driving.

What I am talking about is getting into a car, saying Biedronka and then doing nothing for 10 minutes while my car takes me there. That is decades away.

We may have something like self driving taxis in a few towns in 10 years or so it I can't see governments going for that in a big way until the political issues are resolved.
Vlad1234 16 | 716
12 Sep 2020 #247
As of last year, the Model S Long Range has an EPA range of 373 miles (600 km)

What is the weight of the battery, 400 kg? And the price is 30 K? And those ranges are given for idealized conditions, much less in real life.

$4 per gallon

Now price in US seems to be around $2.1 a gallon. 75 liters (20 gallons) a week is rather quite much.
johnny reb 27 | 4,680
12 Sep 2020 #248
That is autopilot - it's not self driving.

Please explain the difference to me.....(for the sake of a pointless argument).
What's the difference in "saying" then typing in your destination to get there hands and feet free while you sleep ?
That is here NOW, not decades away.
Budweiser even has a driverless semi truck that is capable of delivering beer from point A to point B cities apart.
This is America my friend.

What is the weight of the battery, 400 kg? And the price is 30 K?

The motor in my pick -up truck weighs about 400kg and for a Tesla Model S85, the price is at around $6,500 (6.5K) to replace not 30K.

You may think that's too much, but if you think about the warranty of the battery which is eight years, that's not too bad.

(That is a life time warranty for me) lol
Right now the price of gas is around $2.20 a gallon but on the average of over the last ten years it was around $4.
No, and AGAIN......20 gallons a week is not that much at all in my truck which will take me about 300 miles or which is ONLY 42 miles a day.

Hell son, it's thirty miles to town and back.
Now, I am done wasting my time arguing with your ignorance.
You have anymore questions please google them and quit playing dumb.
Vlad1234 16 | 716
12 Sep 2020 #249
and for a Tesla Model S85, the price is at around $6,500 (6.5K) to replace not 30K

Maybe this is just a replacement WORKS price, not a new battery itself? Or it is assumed $6,5 K is the price to replace a deficient battery before guaranty has expired? I cannot believe it is a price for a whole new battery.

Some people on forum mention that:

Battery replacement price of 85 kWh was $44,564 in Dec 2013

forums.tesla.com/discussion/44715/whats-a-6-year-old-model-s-85-going-to-be-worth
It couldn't drop so much just in 7 years. A verification is needed.
johnny reb 27 | 4,680
12 Sep 2020 #250
Maybe ? is it assumed ? I cannot believe, a verification is needed....................
I'm sure if you Googled your questions you could get an answer to them.

I cannot believe it is a price for a whole new battery.

For the umpteen time ..................(sigh) (he must be smoking something good)

Patience johnny reb, (as he does a palm face plant while he pauses to think of doing something constructive today)......time to read a bedtime story to my cat before his nap. :-)
Vlad1234 16 | 716
12 Sep 2020 #251
for a Tesla Model S85, the price is at around $6,500

And surely new Model S costs $103,000 CAD in Canada, because battery costs just $6,500.
johnny reb 27 | 4,680
12 Sep 2020 #252
Surely.....LOL
They cost $112,000 CAD in the U.S.A, and another $19,000 for Canadian duty to import them from the U.S.A. into Canada for a total of around $130,000 CAD..

You better buy all of them you can at $103,000 CAD.
Now to make the Mods REAL HAPPY, lets get back on and stay on topic.
(my cat is sound to sleep and it is now time for my nap)
kondzior 12 | 1,103
12 Sep 2020 #253
The vastly more advanced Edison cells powered the electric fleets of 1901 and these cars were far more comfortable and well designed than toy crap like the exploding Tesla produced by Elon Musk the fake entrepreneur who is completely government funded to pretend it is so.

lowtechmagazine.com/overview-of-early-electric-cars.html
johnny reb 27 | 4,680
12 Sep 2020 #254
Those cars in 1901 didn't even have shock absorbers and had spring seats so I can see how they were much more comfortable. lol
I'll take the toy crap that no doubt is better designed then any vehicle your country makes.
But thank you for another jealous opinion.
pawian 173 | 12,730
12 Sep 2020 #255
Has it already been mentioned here that after coming to power in 2015, PiS rulers promised to develop the industry able to provide Poles with 1 million electric cars made in Poland?

Today, not only has nothing been built, but there are even no existing designs for such a car.
Thank you, PiS.
Vlad1234 16 | 716
12 Sep 2020 #256
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S#Battery
540 kg!!! I guess they can even underestimate the price of the battery...
johnny reb 27 | 4,680
13 Sep 2020 #257
Like you did on the price of a Tesla in Canada. Hoot !
Besides, it really doesn't matter because a Tesla is way out of your affordable price range.
A Tesla S weighs 4600 lbs. ( 2199 kg ) or the same as a Chevy Silverado. :-)
Vlad1234 16 | 716
13 Sep 2020 #258
Besides, it really doesn't matter because a Tesla is way out of your affordable price range.

I'm interested in electric vehicles more like inventor.
cms neuf - | 1,755
13 Sep 2020 #259
No - what Budweiser have is a truck that drove 150km on a highway. I don't know if it changed lanes - if it did they didn't show it on their video.

My own van has been able to self park for two years. If it could do that then it can probably also drive in a straight line down the highway. .But that's not self driving - that's autopilot

Musk said Buying a car without self driving is like buying a horse - that's complete nonsense and hubris. He's a great showman a good inventor but there's no reason why Tesla will be the first to get proper self driving on the market
Vlad1234 16 | 716
13 Sep 2020 #260
Chevy Volt electric range is 85 km and price of its battery is $10,000, at least. So, if price of a large Li-ion battery is directly proportional to its weight, then Tesla model S battery real price should be around $70,000! But likely they avoid to mention it directly. Sorry, but it looks like all-electric aren't a cars for an average customer in the nearest 50 years, at least.
Cargo pants 2 | 560
13 Sep 2020 #261
cars for an average customer in the nearest 50 years, at least.

I will agree with you there as the big gas companies are still signing ground leases or with private gas station owners for 30 to 50 years,so they I am sure know better about the future.Also I see ship loads of cars being imported,and most cars have life span of over 20 years now.I drive by Newark port sometimes and see the car parks with thousands of newly imported cars in the lots.

why Tesla will be the first to get proper self driving on the market

Maybe or maybe not but Tesla certainly is leading in that technology now.
johnny reb 27 | 4,680
13 Sep 2020 #262
there's no reason why Tesla will be the first to get proper self driving on the market

Tesla already has self driving on the market.
They can go around corners too.
Wait a minute, I already explained that six times now.

But that's not self driving - that's autopilot

Maybe but Tesla does have a self driving car using autopilot.
My buddy sits at his kitchen table and on his cell phone opens the garage door, starts his Tesla, backs it out, closes the garage door while his Tesla sits in the drive way running.

He then turns the Tesla's a/c on so when it gets in it it will already be cool.
Oh it self drives alright....... by using autopilot.
You are just confused about what self driving is as all.
tesco
13 Sep 2020 #263
Today, not only has nothing been built, but there are even no existing designs for such a car.
Thank you, PiS.

electrive.com/2020/07/30/first-polish-electric-car-disappoints-media/
Cargo pants 2 | 560
14 Sep 2020 #264
cell phone opens the garage door, starts his Tesla, backs it out, closes the garage door while his Tesla sits in the drive way running.

YUP! still happens,these buggers should download Tesla app and maybe check themselves(I dont remember what number it requires for access),but I am waiting for my cyber trucks.
cms neuf - | 1,755
14 Sep 2020 #265
Remote opening of a garage door has been around 30 years.

Self driving means the car driving you to your office While you work in some spreadsheets. Not a few meters down the driveway.

Are these inventions really enough to justify Tesla's worth ? It has a market cap of 4x the next car companies. That is nut and its mostly driven by small retail investors.

If you made money on it fair enough But this is subprime again - when the bubble bursts the people who lose on it will blame everybody except themselves.
johnny reb 27 | 4,680
14 Sep 2020 #266
We had remote start and garage door openers 30 years ago too but they didn't back your car out of the garage by remote all in one push of a button on your i- phone because we didn't have i-phones 30 years ago.

Self driving means the car driving you to your office

Yup, that's what they are capable of doing for the umpteenth time now. (Are you Polish by any chance ?)

It has a market cap of 4x the next car companies.

The article you read is way off as Tesla's market cap is over 8x the next car company.
It is starting to sound to me like you are just very jealous of not only Tesla's engineering but also Tesla's success.
Why is that ?
cms neuf - | 1,755
14 Sep 2020 #267
So it should be no problem calling Tesla in Warszawa and getting a test drive car to pick me up at my office and take me to my hotel - it's less than 1km but over one of the cities most complicated roundabouts

If they can send a car to do that I would sign a check the same day
Cargo pants 2 | 560
14 Sep 2020 #268
The SUMMON feature now is only limited in a parking lot,but they are working on it and updates are almost every month.I think another 5/10 years they might achieve that.
johnny reb 27 | 4,680
14 Sep 2020 #269
I would sign a check the same day

No you couldn't.
cms neuf - | 1,755
16 Sep 2020 #270
Ah yes - I would need to be a member of the PF millionaires club :)

So your car can come to you in a marked parking lot and save you about 100 m of effort. Where do I sign up ?

I rad this morning in the FT that one of the promo videos for an electric truck was actually filmed rolling downhill - yet these same dudes have just signed a 2bn deal with GM


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