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Why is circumcision not practiced in Poland?


Dodgefan07 1 | 19
24 Apr 2012 #271
peterweg: Yup, its basically a third world practice. HIV and witchcraft are also common in Africa.

Witam, Peter and Jon !
Yeah, you mean those third-world countries like Canada, USA, Israel, South Korea and Philippines?? You mean those same exact countries that have virtually NO Phimosis, ten times lower rates of Urinary tract infections than European countries where circumcision is not practiced, and much lower rates of cervical cancer and HIV??? You mean those countries, Peter?? wink wink.

Pretty well. The sad thing is that people in villages in some parts of Africa are told it prevents them getting HIV.

Hey Jon, Maybe you are misinformed, or maybe you are intentionally being dishonest?? I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Actually, being circumcised is not a guaranteed prevention against HIV or AIDS, and that's not what they are told.
First of all, multiple case studies involving different countries and tens of thousands of men -- gay and straight, uncircumcised and those circumcised as adults and those circumcised before puberty. The ones in all the countries, who were circumcised as children, had significantly lower rates of AIDs and HIV.

Second, the people were told in the tribes and villages that having sex with a virgin girl would cure them of AIDS, and this is precisely the reason that so many young girls are being raped and infected-- and the disease is spreading in some places at epidemic proportions.

One of the main reasons it is not practiced in Poland is due to the long history of anti-semitism perpetuated by Catholics. Catholics actually banned the practice, even though Peter was circumcised, Mary and Joseph had Jesus circumcised, as were all the disciples and nearly all the early church saints. Americans, and South Koreans, and Philippinos and tens of thousands in different countries in Africa haved looked at all the mountains of research and realize all the benefits.

The Center for Disease Control confirm this, and just one site, dawanet.com/nonmuslim/intro/misc/circum1.html, lists more than 60 separate doctors, clinics, and case studies which prove the medical and hygiene benefits.

Actually most of the countries where circumcision is routinely or mostly practiced are not Jewish at all -- Canada =about 50%, USA, Philippines, and South Korea and many Christian, non-Catholic countries in Africa.

I live in Poland, and love the country and the people. Many are very hospitable and intelligent and the literacy rate is higher than the USA. :-)

Poland has the second oldest constitution in the world, and the second oldest University in the world. Thanks to Polish mathemeticians, the allied forces cracked the enigma and defeated the Germans.:-) Sadly, communism has permanently scarred the culture of Poland, and there was a lot of anti-semitism.

If someone from the desert think of a better, faster way to shovel snow, Americans gladly use it, make it better and market the idea. If someone shows Poles a better, faster way to do something, they get defensive and trash the idea, because someone else thought of it. They won't admit all the research shows the benefits, because in their minds, it's still connected with Jews.
jon357 72 | 21,233
24 Apr 2012 #272
Witam, Peter and Jon !

That's mot my quote.

Canada, USA, Israel, South Korea and Philippines?

One for religious reasons, one a developing country, the US isn't as advanced or civilised as outsiders assume it to be and in Canada it is by no means universal.

First of all, multiple case studies involving different countries and tens of thousands of men -- gay and straight, uncircumcised and those circumcised as adults and those circumcised before puberty. The ones in all the countries, who were circumcised as children, had significantly lower rates of AIDs and HIV.

Nonsense. There was a study that showed it was (in the short term) 1.3% more effective at preventing HIV infection. No study was done about long term events and there were 3% complications from the procedure. The full study is cited elsewhere in this thread.

One of the main reasons it is not practiced in Poland is due to the long history of anti-semitism perpetuated by Catholics.

Nonsense. It just isn't done in Europe because it is a pointless and destructive mutilation.

The Center for Disease Control confirm this

Some foreign thing - certainly not in Europe.

just one site

An Islamic religious site.

I live in Poland,

Me too. Permanently.

second oldest constitution in the world, and the second oldest University in the world.

No (the fourth constitution) and no, nothing like the second oldest University. Not even the second oldest in Europe.

in their minds, it's still connected with Jews.

NO. It isn't done much in Ireland either, where historically there have only ever been a handful of Jewish people.

Interesting that the only men defending it are those who've had the misfortune to have it done and have nothing to compare it with and no argument except stuff they've seen on the interwebs.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
24 Apr 2012 #273
those who've had the misfortune to have it done.....

and knowingly appreciate it because chicks dig it. when women start telling men they prefer it the other way, society will stop doing it.
pip 10 | 1,659
24 Apr 2012 #274
Actually most of the countries where circumcision is routinely or mostly practiced are not Jewish at all -- Canada =about 50%,

your words are not accurate. Perhaps 50% of Canadians are still doing this but of these 50% how many are Jewish or Muslim? I can tell you that the non Jewish and Muslim population is discontinuing the procedure. I have five friends that are nurses in Ontario and BC- this has been the trend for about 10 years.
jon357 72 | 21,233
24 Apr 2012 #275
when women start telling men they prefer it the other way,

Read back in this thread for some comments from women....
natasia 3 | 368
24 Apr 2012 #276
proves the many benefits

It sounds like it might have some health benefits re: in particular the HPV which can cause all sorts of awful things.

However, as a female, I will put up my hand to say that I prefer the uncut, uncensored, untouched version ... sorry ... perhaps that should be the next discussion ...
jon357 72 | 21,233
24 Apr 2012 #277
in particular the HPV which can cause all sorts of awful things.

In the UK they're offering vaccination now for teenagers - HPV is nasty, and the vaccination seems to be the best solution.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
24 Apr 2012 #278
Read back in this thread for some comments from women....

women that grew up in countries where it isn't practiced.

women (most of them at least) that probably haven't even experienced a snipped one.

women that have boyfriends/husbands with unsnipped ones that are obviously going to be partial, regardless of what they really think out of respect for their man.

try asking american women the same question and see what they think about it.
pip 10 | 1,659
24 Apr 2012 #279
my best friends husband is snipped but they opted not to do their son. This is a trend in Canada. The U.S. are farther behind.
jon357 72 | 21,233
24 Apr 2012 #280
women that grew up in countries where it isn't practiced.

No. Even where it isn't practised, you find the odd one, and even where boys and men are routinely mutilated you find people lucky enough not to have bits cut off them. I speak from experience ;-)

women that have boyfriends/husbands with unsnipped ones that are obviously going to be partial,

Not necessarily. Most of them are probably dreaming of an undamaged one.
peterweg 37 | 2,319
24 Apr 2012 #281
those third-world countries like Canada, USA, Israel, South Korea and Philippines??

Yup, savages the lot of them
Nojas 4 | 110
24 Apr 2012 #282
People living with HIV per capita:

# 69 United States: 3.267 per 1,000 people
# 87 Canada: 1.77 per 1,000 people
# 99 Israel: 1.004 per 1,000 people

Non-circumcised
# 123 Norway: 0.465 per 1,000 people
# 125 Sweden: 0.405 per 1,000 people
# 128 Poland: 0.367 per 1,000 people

nationmaster.com/graph/hea_hiv_aid_peo_liv_wit_hiv_aid_percap-aids-people-living-per-capita

If I was an idiot I would claim that this has to do with circumcision. But I'm not.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
24 Apr 2012 #283
No. Even where it isn't practised, you find the odd one, and even where boys and men are routinely mutilated you find people lucky enough not to have bits cut off them. I speak from experience ;-)

Dude......"No" what? What are you saying "No" to?

Not necessarily. Most of them are probably dreaming of an undamaged one.

Keep telling yourself that. It's ok.
jon357 72 | 21,233
24 Apr 2012 #284
Keep telling yourself that. It's ok.

And true.
modafinil - | 418
24 Apr 2012 #285
What??? Bullspit?? I was making the point that she has the right to believe any fantasy she wants?? Did you even read her post, or are you defending that racist notion as well??

The bullspit Jon pointed to about Darwin who never said anything so stupid as 'different races are descendants of different types of apes'. I don't see the racism in Terri's post, though it is true that exposure desensitizes the most physically sensitive part of a man''s body and I thank God that mine has its own protective holster which also helps entry more comfortable for a woman(There's an engineering term for the low friction method of delivery but the name escapes me). I know after a shower if my foreskin doesn't fall back over my knob, any movement excruciatingly uncomfortable with boxers on.

Just because one group doesn't recommend routine circumcision, doesn't negate all of the medical and scientific research that shows the benefits. It's like this -- just because the hospital doesn't sell krill oil doesn't mean it's not healthy. wink wink.

There is a consensus that included gynacologists. As for 60 pro-snipper doctors, what about the other 10,000,000. The Aussie doctor has internet published; not a serious medical journal is in a country that will not perform the cut in any of it's private hospitals.

Jon's already mentioned the pre-emptive cure for HPV which negates the need for surgery.

. It really goes back to the anti-semitic Catholic dogma, which so many Poles blindly follow, and which they try to deny, but the history of anti-semitism perpetuated by the Catholic church is dark, long and also well-documented.

I feel sorry for Poles (sometimes), anything that disagrees with semetic thought and they are labelled anti-semitic. You will find it goes back to St Paul (the Jew) in the bible who stated circumcision is 'pointless'. And Jewish patriarchs may have started the practise for hygiene in the desert as well as the prevention of onanism, which also causes desensitization.

You want to give a reason why the countries with the lowest rates of cervical cancer in the world are the exact same countries that routinely practice circumcision, and to the surprise of our lovely British friends, the countries which don't practice circumcision at all, like Poland and Ireland, and UK have higher rates of Cervical cancer. HHhhhmmmm.

Polish women also have the highest rate of cancer of all types. Can you really blame Polish guys foreskins for brain and pancreatic cancer. General cancer rates are higher in the UK also compared to the US. Britain's incidence is commonly known to be due to higher levels of promiscuity. Circumsised or not you have the same chance of cervical cancer provided you have less than six partners. Can you explain why in America circumsion is decreasing while rates of cervical cancer is decreasing. Or why Australia has lower rates than Israel where cock-snipping is not acceptable in public hospitals at all.

Saudi Arabia has the least incidences not because of cock shape but because it has the lowest levels of promiscuity. Likewise Israel has the highest use of impoted Prostitutes because...
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
25 Apr 2012 #286
Britain's incidence is commonly known to be due to higher levels of promiscuity.

I would also guess that the USA's higher levels are greatly due to the large homosexual population and african american population, 2 groups that have a much higher STD infection rate than the rest of the USA's population. America has a loooooooooooooot of homosexuals and tens of millions of african americans....and a lot of african american homosexuals for that matter.
Natasa 1 | 580
26 Apr 2012 #287
And Jewish patriarchs may have started the practise for hygiene in the desert as well as the prevention of onanism, which also causes desensitization.

My guess was that it had to do something with the climate. Not knowing enough I have to assume a lot ...

Circumsised or not you have the same chance of cervical cancer provided you have less than six partners.

Why six, why not seven, ten? For example...?

women that grew up in countries where it isn't practiced.

women (most of them at least) that probably haven't even experienced a snipped one.

women that have boyfriends/husbands with unsnipped ones that are obviously going to be partial, regardless of what they really think out of respect for their man.

There is no difference, at least I heard so : )))

I have a friend who during his history studies following his newly born religious motives, feeling like a Jesus :) decided to perform that intervention, found a willing surgeon, and revealed the results, oversensitivity followed by desensitization at the end if I recall well. Why would anybody want to feel less there where more is possible and when ultimate phantasy is sexual in its nature? ;)

( I have two more friends who during their adolescence had to be operated because of careless promiscuity, I heard more about the topic than needed from first.... hand? :)))))) In general, they were not thrilled with the results.....
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,872
26 Apr 2012 #288
There is no difference, at least I heard so : )))

right, it just looks different...;)
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
26 Apr 2012 #289
no. it actually has a piece of skin wrapped around the end of it. and the other one doesn't.
Dodgefan07 1 | 19
27 Apr 2012 #290
Actually most of the countries where circumcision is routinely or mostly practiced are not Jewish at all -- Canada =about 50%,

your words are not accurate. Perhaps 50% of Canadians are still doing this but of these 50% how many are Jewish or Muslim? I can tell you that the non Jewish and Muslim population is discontinuing the procedure

Hello Pip,
You're kidding right?? You really think South Korea is mostly Jewish or Muslim?? LOL. And Philippines. Laugh again.
USA has approximately 300,000,000 people. You really think most of them are Jewish or Muslim?? LOL. And then there's Canada, -- you have 5 friends there. According to the Canadian census site, 43 % of the total population are Catholic, and 29% are Protestant which makes up a total of 72%.

www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/products/analytic/companion/rel/canada.cfm

Besides these, there are multiple countries in Africa which are Christian, where the practice is rapidly growing, due directly to all the case studies of tens of thousands of men in Africa, showing significantly lower rates of HIV among those who were circumcised before puberty.
jon357 72 | 21,233
27 Apr 2012 #291
due directly to all the case studies of tens of thousands of men in Africa, showing significantly lower rates of HIV among those who were circumcised before puberty.

Unfortunately they only show a short term lower rate of 1.3% as opposed to 3% who have nasty complications from the operation. Details cited in posts above.
Dodgefan07 1 | 19
27 Apr 2012 #292
Dodgefan07: those third-world countries like Canada, USA, Israel, South Korea and Philippines??

Yup, savages the lot of them

Dzien Dobry Peter,
Your post doesn't even pass the laugh test. USA, Canada, South Korea, Israel, Savages??? You might be joking, but it makes you look like a racist wieĊ›niak.

If you look on the bottom of your computer, it was probably made in Korea, or mostly Korean parts.

When the black plagues swept through Europe in the middle ages and millions of people died, it bypassed the Jewish colonies and some Poles and other nationalities blamed the Jews. They were practicing hygiene. The practice of circumcision was also instructed and today the mountains of scientific and medical research confirm it --

The lady from your village called and she wants the straw back she loaned to you for your shoes.

Keep it civil, please.
modafinil - | 418
27 Apr 2012 #293
Unfortunately they only show a short term lower rate of 1.3% as opposed to 3% who have nasty complications from the operation.

However, based on another African report, men circumcised in Africa could be subject to a complication rate of 35% for a traditional circumcision or 18% for a clinical circumcision.

The studies were not consistent with other evidence. African national population surveys in eight countries found a higher rate of HIV infection among circumcised men compared to men who were not circumcised. There are at least 17 observational studies that have not found any benefit from male circumcision in reducing HIV transmission.

Among developed countries, the United States has the highest circumcision rate and the highest rate of heterosexually transmitted HIV. Other countries have lower rates of HIV infection than the United States and do not practice circumcision
.

zimeye.org

I hope there are no women out there who think a cut cock is a substitute for a condom.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
27 Apr 2012 #294
men circumcised in Africa could be subject to a complication rate of 35% for a traditional circumcision or 18% for a clinical circumcision.

we are talking about medical operations in Africa, are we not? half the circumcisions there are probably conducted inside a mud hut with a sharp piece of shale rock.
jon357 72 | 21,233
27 Apr 2012 #295
There speaks the voice of someone who's never been there!
peterweg 37 | 2,319
27 Apr 2012 #296
If you look on the bottom of your computer, it was probably made in Korea, or mostly Korean parts.

Don't know much about computers, do you?

The 'bottom' of a computer (where is that?) doesn't define where its made. Wherever it is made, it certainly doesn't have many Korean parts.

Thats what you get with a Third world education.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
27 Apr 2012 #297
There speaks the voice of someone who's never been there!

right, because you've seen countless circumcisions performed in Africa with your own eyes.
jon357 72 | 21,233
27 Apr 2012 #298
I've certainly been in hospitals in Africa - and none of them looked like, as you called it:

mud hut with a sharp piece of shale rock.

What things that you've seen 'countless times' helped form your sparkling insight into both international hospital practice as well as the pointless practice of circumcision, whether in Africa or elsewhere?
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
27 Apr 2012 #299
as well as the pointless practice of circumcision

your words, not mine. stop grouping me in with the others.

international hospital practice

there's international, and then there's a continent with the most 3rd world countries in the world where access to clean drinking water is rare and running water.......forget it, that number could be in the single digits. the point being, choosing Africa as a reference for "circumcisions gone bad" is just plain silly.
jon357 72 | 21,233
27 Apr 2012 #300
then there's a continent with the most 3rd world countries in the world where access to clean drinking water is rare and running water

You'd be surprised how clean it is, especially in hospitals.

the point being, choosing Africa as a reference for "circumcisions gone bad" is just plain silly.

So why choose Africa at all as an example to advocate genital mutilating. After all, you brought the place up.


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